IN RE: Toyota 2008 Highlander Hybrid Gas Tank Damage.

[Hybrid Driver]

After having the car only 2-1/2 months and driving it only 2,450 miles without accident or
other damage, the engine check light came on and the car would not accept gas when the gas
station attendant tried to fill the tank.
Toyota Service subsequently told me the OVR valve and charcoal filter in the gas tank were
damaged, that this was most likely caused by overfilling (i.e., "topping off") the gas tank,
that the cost of repair would be over $1,700, and that Toyota's Manufacturer's Warranty
would not cover this cost as the damage was considered the owner's responsibility.
Toyota never advised me that topping off the gas tank could cause such a problem, or that
Toyota's warranty would not cover the cost of repairs, and there is no mention of this in
any of the documentation (owner's warranty, owner's manual, maintenance schedule, etc.)
Toyota provides to new owners.
When I discussed the problem with the general sales manager at Toyota, he said he had never
heard of such a problem, that topping off the gas tank had been a common practice among car
owners and gas station attendants for many years, and then told me that he thought I should
not have to pay for the repair.
In the end, however, the service department required that I pay for the repair in order to
get my car back.
I am not pleased about this and will have my attorney write a letter about it to the
Attorney General's Department of Consumer Fraud.

[hevster1]

On ANY modern car with an evaporative emissions system you should NEVER top the tank off. On a late model OBD 2 car it screws up the orvr and canister. Usually Toyota will pay for it 1 time only. After that it is on you. I would call customer relations (phone number in your owners manual) and ask for assistance. This info is in your owners manual btw. It specifically instructs owners NOT to top off tanks. Of course you did read your owners manual correct? I know is says you did but look again it is in there.

[gideon1331]

Not to be an ass, but have you never seen the "DO NOT TOP OFF" signs plastered on every single gas pump?

If it doesn't do damage to the evaporative emissions control system on your vehicle, it creates a safety hazard when the gas in your tank expands to meet the outside air temp and there is no air in the tank/filler pipe to manage the pressure increase.

On older cars, the gas would expand and spew out of the top of the filler pipe, as the caps had a vent in them. So although it wouldn't damage the car itself back then, it let explosive gas escape the tank.

[Hybrid Driver]

Originally Posted by hevster1

On ANY modern car with an evaporative emissions system you should NEVER top the tank off. On a late model OBD 2 car it screws up the orvr and canister. Usually Toyota will pay for it 1 time only. After that it is on you. I would call customer relations (phone number in your owners manual) and ask for assistance. This info is in your owners manual btw. It specifically instructs owners NOT to top off tanks. Of course you did read your owners manual correct? I know is says you did but look again it is in there.

Couple of points, wiseguys: I can probably quote you chapter & verse of the owner's manual by now (pp.188-119, for yr reference, where overfilling is discussed--but only as an EPA hazard and risk to exerior paint), and if you read my original comment carefully, you would have realized that neither I nor 4 other employees of Toyota, including the shop foreman, service manager and general sales manager could find any mention in the owner's manual or any other documents Toyota provides with the car of (1) the internal damage that might result from topping off, (2) or the fact that the warranty would not cover such damage. (3) In addition, the gas station I use in is the state of New Jersey, where self-service is illegal, and the attendants fill the tanks. (4) No, there is no such posting (not to top off) at that or any other gas station I have visited thus far in NY or NJ (tho it may exist at other places).

[Cossack]

Hi Guys

My buddy works works as a service parts guy in Toronto (26yrs). I get my Camry Hydrid serviced there. I told him about this problem of topping up. His reply was don't do it. He wouldn't comment about warrenty. (seems they have had allot of Highlanders/camery's with this problem) This is a defect with some but not all, as mine was topped up since last May. Now I don't do it anymore.

[Hybrid Driver]

Thx for y'r comments, Cossack. I'm still trying to get some reimbursement from Toyota--or at least an acknowledgement that they need to clarify their cautions about this and the limitations of their warranty. Will let you know if/when I get a final response from them. Meanwhile, gas stations attendants have begun to eye me curiously as I stand guard outside the car glowering at the meter and repeatedly admonishing them (& myself) "Don't top off! Don't top off! Don't top off!" (This cd lead to paranoia. Surely there's a better way...?)

[08HighlanderHybrid]

Good info, my wife and I have a consistent habit of "topping up" at the pump, usually either to round out the amount or to maximize fill-up when prices are low... lower. I will inform her and keep this in mind when filling up in the future, I certainly don't want a $1700+ repair job as a result, it definitely isn't worth that little extra fuel I get can squeeze into the tank.

[toyomoho]

The general manager has authority over the service department. If the GM thought you should not have paid, why did you end up paying?

Have friendly, polite talk with the GM, he or she has the authority to fully deal with this issue and can override the service department. When talking to the GM be friendly, and the type of person the GM thinks would make a good ongoing customer. If the GM thinks you will stay around as a customer he or she will go further in helping you. State you love the car so far and have told everyone this.

Yes, perhaps a little BS but again if the GM thinks you will be a continued customer or bring in more potential business it is to their advantage to help you.

As to your situation, did you get the car fixed thinking it would be covered under warrant then get hit with the bill? Is there anything in the warranty or owners manual about not topping off the fuel tank?

The EPA requires an extended warranty on the EVAP items, as such much if not all of the repairs should have been covered under either the Toyota or the EPA mandated extended warranty (3yrs/36K).

Toyota does reimburse the dealer for warranty repairs but at a lower rate, thus at worst the dealer should break even in repairs. It is not like the money is coming out of their pocket.

It appears they may have succeeded in shifting the repair costs onto you and made a profit to boot.

Unfortunately since you already paid you may be in a bind, you have no leverage in getting your money refunded.

If all attempts at getting help from the dealer are fruitless, call the Toyota help line. Call both Toyota regional and national numbers. Be polite but firm. Your position is this repair should have been covered under warranty, it wasn’t, you needed the car, etc, etc, and so paid. Keep in mind the dealer will get feedback from Toyota and as such may be less willing to help in the future.

If paid by credit card you might see if you can dispute the charge, some dealers are known for putting customers under duress when their car needs repairs. Do this as a last resort as it will destroy any chances of dealer help.

If you start going the attorney route the dealer with do nothing as they will think you are lost as customer, as such why bother.

National Hotline: 1-800-331-4331

New York 973-575-7600

In the future don’t top off the tank. It can lead to this type of problem although typically it takes a years for the problems to pop up, not just 3 months.

[aafg]

It sounds like the problem you have is that a significant amount of fuel entered your carbon canister. I think one of two things have happened. Either the vapor valve that controls filling has failed (stuck open) and it allowed the tank to be overfilled, or the valve(s) that allow the tank to vent to the carbon canister are leaking and fuel sloshed out of the tank through them. Either way, Toyota or your dealer should check this out. If they're not interested, I'm sure that NHTSA would be. Fuel emissions systems are federally regulated and if this type of failure is happening on several vehicles it's quite possible there could be a recall.

I believe the hybrid highlander has a sealed, pressurized fuel tank, so that complicates the trouble shooting some, but here are some general points which should still apply.

As mentioned earlier, every tank has a vapor space to protect for the expansion of fuel. It has a valve that is designed to shut when the fuel level reaches this vapor space limit, and that changes the dynamics of the vapor flow causing the nozzle to shut off. If the nozzle doesn't shutoff, fuel will quickly back up your fill pipe and spill out - but the vapor space in the tank is still protected. Topping off your tank and trickle filling (very slow rate) can eat into this vapor space, but you shouldn't ever have a problem unless there is a significant amount of fuel added after the valve shuts (say a gallon or more). You won't see an issue rounding up to the nearest dollar, especially with gas prices these days. Systems are designed to prevent you from being able to stuff the tank, and the valves are not supposed to leak liquid fuel under any conditions. Since one or both of those things happened, I believe you have a system with defective parts.

If your dealer didn't change out your tank and valves, you may have the same problem again. If the parts are still available, I would request that they check the valves to make sure they are opening and closing as intended. They should do a fill test on the system to make sure it is not taking more fuel than the designed capacity.