CEL Light On. OBDII Scanner or Laptop

DIY_Apprentice · Mar 15, 2010

First off, Thanks to anyone and everyone out there with more knowledge in this stuff than myself.

Second. Two Days ago I Filled up my gas tank and recently the CEL has come on :headbang:, I am guessing it has something to do with the fill up, but that really is not the point of this thread.

Third, I have a 2000 Camry LE 5sfe automatic Cruise Control. This CEL just brings to light the fact that I would like to read my error codes myself. I have another car that would benefitr from this ability also :thumbsup:. My question is

What OBDII scanner should I buy?

I have a laptop running Ubuntu Linux, Should I get Software and a Cable Intead?
What is the general Consensus?

I have looked through the threads and found people seem to like the Actron Devices. I was thinking the CP9180 would be everything I could ever need in a scanner. Haven't looked into Laptop options.

hill8570 · Mar 15, 2010

Depends on what you want to do. I like the PC units (I use a unit from http://www.obddiagnostics.com/ ), but the software is Windows-only. Price was sweet, 'tho. If you want to do more than pull codes, etc, do some analysis, look at long-term behavior, or see how multiple sensors are behaving at the same instant in time, then a PC unit is the way to go.

OTOH, if you just want to pull codes, reset codes, look at the monitors in realtime, and maybe do some simple data logging, that Actron 9180 would do fine.

Kicker is the need for something to work with Linux -- there may be something out there, but I've never seen it.

chronoti · Mar 15, 2010

there only one program for os x as well and it's not all that great,

thats why i can dual boot and run vmware

73sport · Apr 8, 2010

chronoti said:
thats why i can dual boot and run vmware

If you're running linux you prolly have the means to A, dual boot vm OR B) use a more crashable software like Winders in a VM window!

I'm using AutoTap V3.0 and this version crashes when resizing, adding, deleting, changing graphs and gauges. Not always but enough to be a PITA. Its an entry level item released in 2005. Hopefully newer versions have fixed the bad stuff.

In this thread are some screen shots and it exports to excel so you can graph your own data.
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3133395#post3133395 #35 - #39 and 43

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3141936&postcount=35

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3142897&postcount=43

Not bad, but I can't see the actual sensor values like some of the other software. For this you have to pay!

DIY_Apprentice · Mar 15, 2010

I suppose I could Split the harddrive partition and/or find a windows emulator, but the laptop is low-end i.e. 512mb RAM 1GHz Processor, 40GB HDD, etc. Main reason Linux is on it in the first place. I will look into the link posted by hill, and see if that is more what I am looking for. Thanks for the replies to both of you

intravino · Mar 15, 2010

Check out this OBD2 Scanner.

It run on Linux with the source code of the generic software or with Perl

hill8570 · Mar 15, 2010

Another option for PC-based is http://www.obdpros.com . If I were in the market right now, I'd be taking a real hard look at their stuff. Looks like they're doing a great job with innovative hardware, and they have links to a lot of free software that will work with their hardware (including at least one Linux offering). The prices on their hardware look really good, too...

fenixus · Mar 16, 2010

hmmm, i'm successfully using an ELM327 clone made in China (bought off ebay for $22 s/h included) with public/free FTDI chipset drivers (USB cable, windows XP), connected to Lenovo netbook.
software depends on what you want to achieve, not all s/w like PCMScan fully supports ELM327 (limited PIDs).

IMHO DigiMoto V works very good for me even with things like monitoring live (or graphs) output of many sensors (fuel trims and o2 included).

DIY_Apprentice · Mar 16, 2010

Taking a look at all of the computer options it seems that in my case the software option for PC may be more trouble than it is worth. While I can see the benefit of being able to view all the sensors at the same time, graph performance characteristics, and monitor a properly working car PRIOR to a break down, with the laptop I plan to use, i.e. Linux and No Serial Port, it seems that my best bet in regards to compatibility as well as support is the Actron CP9180. Now if I had a laptop running windows, that may not be the case, but for the functionality I want out of my setup, it seems the Actron is less of a Hassel. Not to mention, I had No Idea that there were so many different PC packages to choose from, without more in depth research I don't know if I could make the proper choice, especially when trying to figure out Linux Compatibility. FYI, I am no Linux Guru by any means.

On a side note, if someone is reading this forum for information regarding the CEL that was lit up, it turns out it was a loose gas cap, I unscrewed it and put it back on and the light disappeared.

I still haven't purchased anything yet, so if people still have other ideas I will keep researching until I do.

fenixus · Mar 16, 2010

yeah, there is still so little professional tools running on linux (except computer programming, etc.) ... most if not all commercial obd2 packages run only on Windows and better is older XP as new ones like Vista/7 might not support drivers properly or not at all (yet) ...

http://www.talktomycar.co.uk/drivers.htm
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40367

http://www.palmerperformance.com/products/pcmscan/index.php
http://www.digimoto.com/Shop/default.aspx

check this links, there are tons of free demo (windows) software to try (limited functionality), some of them are really simple or more or less useless like toys. Palmer Performance PCMscan covers amazing things however in my case it was so limited that it was close to useless and i tried a "borrowed" full version ... not demo ... for me DigiMoto V wins hands down so far.

Professional (non-PC) tools (e.g. actron) are more expensive, but most likely as you say no hassle involved to get it running.

DIY_Apprentice · Mar 17, 2010

Well, it seems that 2 people have recommended Digimoto V so far, and it looks like a good tool. Probably what I would go with if I was using a windows laptop. Actually, depending upon whether or not I can get some free RAM for this thing, I may just leave Windows on it, which would make this decision a lot easier.

Since both the Actron CP9180 = about the same cost as Digimoto V

Can you guys give examples of how you are using the tool? The features you use most often, and why?

That would REALLY help me, because I am not exactly sure what I DO and DONT need in a scan tool.

Thanks!

fenixus · Mar 17, 2010

just look here:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=333280&page=6

it helped me a lot in troubleshooting, recording live sensor output at idle and test driving, getting many other stuff which helps in narrowing down the problem and diagnosis.

DIY_Apprentice · Mar 18, 2010

And You Did all that diagnostic with Digimoto V? Was it pretty user friendly software or was there a significant learning curve?

fenixus · Mar 18, 2010

yes, i did almost all diagnostics with software (digimoto), however i wasn't sure if it works right so i checked with like 5 other programs and all of them were showing same (some of them were very limited though). to rule out some driver programming errors I double-checked what i could with real world test (e.g. hand vacuum pump and compare results with other peoples), taking multimeter measurements, doing some factory described torture tests, etc.

i'm not saying i fixed it already, it's a work in progress still, might still have a minor vacuum leak somewhere (e.g. out of spec exhaust valve in engine or some vacuum lines that i didn't check).

anyways, digimoto is very easy to use, once you got it running (latest FTDI chipset driver and USB cable in my case) on your PC laptop then all is pretty straight forward.
there are tabs that allow you to see live ECM monitoring or datalogging them to a file (very hard to browse though, they need to work on a datalog viewer), separate tab for charts and graphs, separate Tests tab, etc.

in the beginning i had old driver that wasn't working, but after a while i found a piece of software to clear those old driver files and installed new one. then used autodetect button for setting cable connection properties (ELM327 uses 38400 baud rate, 8N1) and all supported PIDs started working instantly. each car's ECM may support different set of PIDs (monitoring commands).

now it's as simple as plugging the obd2 cable to car's port, clicking "Connect" button and starting the live feed ("play" button) or datalogging mode ("record" button). i was taking screen shots of graphs with PrintScreen button and saving them from clipboard to a JPG file with Paint program. very easy.

DIY_Apprentice · Mar 18, 2010

Hey Thanks! I was able to get some free RAM for my Laptop So I Reformatted my PC with XP again, and hopefully it will run smoothly enough now that I can stick with Windows and avoid the Linux issue altogether. In which case it sounds like Digimoto V is the way to go, seems you have done some pretty extensive testing of you own to prove out the software. Thank you for the detailed response it really helps in making this decision.

One Last Thing, My Wife Has a Saturn 2004 Ion2 do you think this would workjust fine on her car as well? I can't see why not.

ajkalian · Mar 18, 2010

Some other PC ScanTool options

ScanMaster is another option to try. I've found it the best of the lot of the PC scan software. Most of the others don't have any hard copy printing capabilities.

I know it's hard to believe but it's true. ScanMaster prints a nice 4-6 page report that you can refer to.

There's more detailed info in this thread http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=325592&highlight=scanmaster

If you get the OBD Link from Scantool.net, get the Bluetooth version. It frees you up and you don't have to be in the car. ScanMaster, Digimoto, and OBD 2007 all work with ScanTool's OBD Link Bluetooth module.

There seems to be a little dust up between OBD 2007 and ScanTool.net and their use of ELM hardware, but OBD 2007 works fine with ScanTool.net's hardware, no problem. You can read all about it on OBD 2007's web site here... http://www.glmsoftware.com/

OBD 2007 has some nifty looking guages and is a close runner up to ScanMaster but like most all the others OBD 2007 lacks any printing capabilities.

I passed on AutoTap because they don't offer a Bluetooth version, and don't plan on offering one. I talked to the tech support people and asked if Autotap software would work with ScanTool's OBD Link hardware and they said that they have encrypted their software to only work with AutoTap hardware. I thought that was pretty narrow minded thinking, so I passed on that product.

Like others have said, Palmer Performance's Demo was too crippled to even use so I passed on that one as well.

There are many packages to choose from, and I've tried most all of them, and still prefer ScanMaster's product.

One thing I've found out about all of these PC based software products. They are all produced by small, sometimes one man companies. Most all of them use the ELM 327 hardware interface, and some have Bluetooth capabilities. It will take you a while to weed through all of the different offerings, but it will be worth it in the end. They can give you much more information as to what's going on in the ECU and with that information, you will be better prepared when you have to make the repairs.

DIY_Apprentice · Mar 18, 2010

Thanks For All the info, I am still doing research (Anal Retentive That Way), so I will have to read through the links you posted. Does the Blue Tooth Version Come with a USB Bluetooth Adapter For the Laptop? Mine Definately Does not have Bluetooth Built in. Thanks.

ajkalian · Mar 18, 2010

If you order OBD Link from Scantool.net they sell a USB Bluetooth adapter for $15.00. It works OK, but I got another one that I like better. Any Bluetooth adapter will work. But you need to be careful if you decide to supply your own. There are two types of Bluetooth adapters. Class 1 which is good for 300 feet, and draws more power than Class 2 which is only good for 30 feet but draws much less power, which is why Class 2 is used in the phone headsets that have limited battery life.

I got mine at Frys, and it's one of the mini ones. Just sticks out 1/2" inch so there is no chance that it will get snagged on something. Here's a link http://www.frys.com/product/5787012 I did have to download the software from Tosihiba to make it work properly, though.

fenixus · Mar 19, 2010

good info ajkalian. though i tried scanmaster ELM demo to see if it works with my ELM327 clone USB cable and no go, it cannot get connected at all. i guess its functionality has been limited strictly to OBD interfaces mentioned on their website.

by the way Digimoto V also offers printing capabilities. it is very simplified, no reports, only printing a single chart (you need to select which one) or current live monitoring output page (all PIDs at once), but works fine.

also i see Digimoto has an option to Save graphs (again one by one) as image which also will be useful for people that do not know/like some old school tricks (print screen button, paste into Paint app and then save).

can you see in your Scanmaster a graph of A/F sensor ? for some reason my DigiMoto doesn't allow me to produce a graphical representation of this PID which works fine in live monitoring...

just for the record this is the guy that sold me my ELM327 clone:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Car-...iewItemQQhashZitem33512d5b7dQQitemZ220405259133QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools

i know that many users here reported such chinese clones do not work with any software. well it's not true, they work fine as advertised until you use correct driver for it and use OBD2 software that was NOT locked against them, simple as that.

ajkalian · Mar 19, 2010

fenixus said:
by the way Digimoto V also offers printing capabilities. it is very simplified, no reports, only printing a single chart (you need to select which one) or current live monitoring output page (all PIDs at once), but works fine.

I stand corrected on Digimoto V's ability to print graphs. I missed that, sorry.

But what I meant by printing was the ability to produce something like this. ScanMaster is the only program so far that I've found that can do that.

I'm not sure about the A/F sensor. I don't remember if ScanMaster shows anything or not. I'll check and see next time I hook it up.

One thing I've discovered in rooting around in the ECU is that although there are 3 O2 sensors on my car, (2000 Camry LE 1MZ-FE) ScanMaster didn't report any information on two of them. Digimoto just gave me an error message. When I ask Wladimir over at ScanMaster and sent him the log, he pointed this out:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've checked the log file. The program displays the received data correctly. But the ECU provides the data to be presented in the table wrong. Missing is always 2 bytes.

Your Log:
2/26/2010 4:41:53 PM - S: 050002 (B1S2)
2/26/2010 4:41:54 PM - R: 48 6B 10 45 00 02 03 00 00 00 0D
2/26/2010 4:41:54 PM - S: 050702 ($07)
2/26/2010 4:41:54 PM - R: 48 6B 10 45 07 02 FF 10
2/26/2010 4:41:54 PM - S: 050802 ($08)
2/26/2010 4:41:54 PM - R: 48 6B 10 45 08 02 00 12
Should be:
2/26/2010 4:41:53 PM - S: 050002
2/26/2010 4:41:54 PM - R: 48 6B 10 45 00 02 03 00 00 00 0D
2/26/2010 4:41:54 PM - S: 050702
2/26/2010 4:41:54 PM - R: 48 6B 10 45 07 02 FF xx xx 10
2/26/2010 4:41:54 PM - S: 050802
2/26/2010 4:41:54 PM - R: 48 6B 10 45 08 02 00 xx xx 12

B1S1 and B2S1 requests no data:

2/26/2010 4:41:53 PM - S: 050001 (B1S1)
2/26/2010 4:41:53 PM - R: NO DATA
2/26/2010 4:41:54 PM - S: 050010 (B2S1)
2/26/2010 4:41:54 PM - R: NO DATA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the bright side, there will be no way for the State to monitor the O2 sensors either at the annual Smog Check. So even if the O2 sensors are fubar, I'll still pass smog.

Probably just wishful thinking on my part.

fenixus said:
i know that many users here reported such chinese clones do not work with any software. well it's not true, they work fine as advertised until you use correct driver for it and use OBD2 software that was NOT locked against them, simple as that.

That whole clone thing probably rests on the string returned when the chip is queried. The guy over at GLM said:
============================
The giveaway is the response to the AT@1 command, known as the display device description command as per the Elm327 datasheet. The default factory response to AT@1 is “OBDII to RS232 Interpreter”, so consequently every clone chip responds with that response.

The reputable scan tool manufacturers, who purchase Elm327 chips from Elm Electronics, are offered custom code to modify the AT@1 response, so that they can identify their product through code. Most manufacturers choose to display their company name, hence the discontinued ElmScan 5s responded with “SCANTOOL.NET LLC”. OBDII software such as OBD 2007 could then identify the scan tool that OBD 2007 was connected to. There are many legitimate uses of this string, one of which is used to restrict access of certain products to only work with particular scan tools.
=============================

It could be something entirely different, but to me, this seems to be the way a software author could get a "go/no go" response from the ELM chip.

DIY_Apprentice · Mar 19, 2010

i don't like this approach though as it reminds me Apple strategy in IT world. i'm an opensource type guy

Yeah, I hear that. Unfortunately, most of he high quality stuff is not that way. Oh well.

So now I am slightly confused. I like the look of the scanmaster Report Function. However, I don't like the fact that it isn't showing you your O2 Readings. Is this a scanmaster issue or your ECU? Does Digimoto V Show those readings? Do Digimoto and scanmaster have approximately the same feature set, except for the reporting function? Currently, I am leaning towards Scanmaster, but I want to have a fully functional scan tool.

Any Info in this regard? Thanks to both of you for all the info.

DIY_Apprentice · Mar 19, 2010

I also Noticed Scan XL and Scan XL Professional, now these are slightly out of my budget but do either of you have any experience with this software? Any Advantages over Scan Master?

fenixus · Mar 19, 2010

this is a sample set of values (all supported turned on) returned from ECU when using Live Monitoring with DigiMoto V on my '00 Camry Solara SE i4 (california emissions):

03/05/2010 20:19:22
Calculated Load 27.06%
Engine Coolant Temp 203F
Short Term Fuel Trim -1.56%
Long Term Fuel Trim +17.97%
MAP 4.06psi
RPM 704.5
VSS 0mph
Spark Advance 5 degrees
Intake Air Temp 71F
Absolute Throttle Position 12.55%
O2 bank 1 sensor2 0.21V
o2s12 short fuel trim 0%
o2s11 equivalence ratio 1.00 lambda
O2 bank 1 sensor1 3.29V

both oxygen sensors are reported correctly for me. upstream in front of engine is wide band A/F, downstream in the rear is regular cheap type.

ajkalian · Mar 19, 2010

fenixus said:
this is a sample set of values (all supported turned on) returned from ECU when using Live Monitoring with DigiMoto V on my '00 Camry Solara SE i4 (california emissions):

both oxygen sensors are reported correctly for me. upstream in front of engine is wide band A/F, downstream in the rear is regular cheap type.

Well aren't you the lucky one. How about coming over my place and scanning my car.

Here's what I got when I went to read the O2 sensors with Digimoto:

When I asked if my ECU might be defective by not reporting the values, here's what Wladimir at Scanmaster said:
======================================
"Mode 5 is not a mandatory function and need not be present. Your ECU is not defective, it is so programmed. You can ask your repair shop if they have a software update for the ECU. But it does not guarantee that even the OBD-2 portion of the ECU software was changed."
======================================

John at Digimoto pretty much agreed in so many words, but couldn't explain the weird error message. Hey, want to see some goofy programing. Go to the Gauge Tab and add another to the stock ones in Digimoto. Mine came up 90 degrees counter-clockwise and John at Digimoto didn't have a fix. :facepalm:

Anyway, it seems pretty weird that your 2000 Solara 4-cyl reports the sensor stuff, and my 2000 6-cyl Camry LE doesn't. The reason might be that the 6-cyl motors have 3 sensors, one on each manifold, and one after the cat. Mine's Calif emissions too. I mean why have different ECU's for the same year car?? I'm curious if the part numbers are different. If they are that might explain the difference.

I'm just gonna leave everything alone. If the ECU isn't reporting the data, fine. If the pinhead at the smog check station asks about it. I'll just tell him it's OK, and not to worry about it. :lol:

SexieWASD · Mar 19, 2010

I use a snapon modis system daily, runs on windows, I got an "illegal operation" error message today, lol. Really the only time I've used the live monitoring is for a failing abs sensor, but only one that has not quite failed yet. other than in that situation you would be far better off by getting a combination of these tools;

Equus 3110 (pulls codes, it's fast, and i think i saw them at walmart)

Power Probe III (saves hours of work)

Velleman DVM850BL (it's cheap and hard to break)
you can go for a much nicer auto ranging one (fluke), but you probably wont need it for anything automotive.

Velleman HPS10 oscilloscope (also cheap as far as scopes go, but more than enough bandwidth for anything automotive
unless you want to try repairing ecu's, it's fast enough for can, and i2c buses, but not spi. you'll get the most use out of one of these testing hall-effect sensors (abs, crank/cam position)).

DIY_Apprentice · Mar 19, 2010

Thanks for the info Sexie, I should pick up that powerprobe, looks nice. Also, I could see the benefit of an automotive DMM, however, for the kind of work I plan to do, an oscilloscope seems like overkill. However, I like the idea of having a PC based Scan Tool, also I already have the Laptop. I do however see what you mean about the NEED for Live Monitoring, but there is something to be said for a guilty pleasure..

Back to the software question. If I get a scantool.net OBD Link Tool would that hardware be compatible with Digimoto OR scanmaster? Any word on Scan XL?

Thanks Everybody.:chug:

ajkalian · Mar 19, 2010

DIY_Apprentice said:
Back to the software question. If I get a scantool.net OBD Link Tool would that hardware be compatible with Digimoto OR scanmaster? Any word on Scan XL?

In a word yes.

I have the OBD link from ScanTool.net and it works with ScanMaster, Digimoto and OBD 2007. Those three are the only ones I would consider, in that order.

The OBD Link ELM 3217 hardware interface works with lots of other programs. Feel free to try them all. I got a feeling you will come back to one of the three I mentioned.

Good luck.

DIY_Apprentice · Mar 20, 2010

Thanks. I really appreciate all the advice. I will probably give ScanMaster a try first.

fenixus · Mar 20, 2010

yup, i also agree that scanmaster would be best option per quality and professionalism in a decent price considered all input in this thread and example output posted earlier.

digitmoto is a kind of a cheaper less professional alternative and obviously it lacks the professional technical/customer support. i went price-wise on this choice

mind that i've got el cheapo clone interface from hong kong hehe, but hey it works for me

I also believe you will want to test them all once you get the interface

have fun DIY_Apprentice

DIY_Apprentice · Mar 20, 2010

Thanks guys I really do appreciate the help in this regard. Hopefully some other people will find this thread helpful. :thumbsup:

i went price-wise on this choice
mind that i've got el cheapo clone interface from hong kong hehe, but hey it works for me

fenixus - I COMPLETELY understand.

Honestly, I would probably do the same, but after reading some other threads it seems that you can either get lucky with the cheap knockoffs or screwed by them. Sounds like you were able to bypass some issues by getting different drivers. :clap: I would just rather avoid issues altogether. Hopefully you can figure out that fuel trim issue of yours, does not sound fun at all. Blane. Good Luck.

fenixus · Mar 20, 2010

thanks.

yeah, i read those threads too. had some trouble initially, not 100% sure but it might have been windows native driver conflicting with device driver at first, but after cleanup it started working great. let me know if you choose this way, i will be able to help with it if that happens to you too. i think this is the problem people mostly refer when saying those clones do not work.

hoping to get fuel trims fixed tomorrow by replacing the A/F sensor as first easiest. also most people says that this first upstream o2 sensor is most responsible for fuel trims.
really not sure what to think about this sensor, i haven't found it faulty, but i could not really confirm it properly operating either (voltage output of it runs in specific ranges).
on the other hand i found rear sensor half faulty (failed once in the middle of the torture test per factory Diagnostics manual). this one is on its way, hoping to get it replaced during next weekend.

also thanks for tanking my "Thanked" meter hehe, appreciated very much

DIY_Apprentice · Apr 8, 2010

Hey, so I purchased the ELM with Bluetooth from PalmerPerformance.com (cheaper, same device) with the Bluetooth option. Decided to wait on the software till I had checked out some demos. I have to say, the scanmaster does look like the best option by far, but I don't have the money to buy it right now. Is there a free/demo version of any scan software that will ACTUALLY read the ENTIRE error code? So far they have told me I have stored codes, but won't elaborate on the xact Error number. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

CEL Light On. OBDII Scanner or Laptop

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