Rav4 1997 K-frame replacement rust holes safety check, cost?

[Rav4Frame]

Hello,

I was going to buy a siblings 1997 2 wheel drive automatic 4 door Rav4 which was very well taken care of.

It went for a safety check here in Quebec and did not pass due to 3 holes in the K-frame ( front ) ( Code #196 on the " Rapport de verification mecanique " from the government authorized checklist). The thing is the inspector ( you cannot get these safety checks at any licensed mechanic here, only a few government regulated places per area ) offered her to buy the car and to call after work as he was a mechanic. So the car besides this problem is in good shape.

Thing is I know this Rav4 has been very well maintained. Over $2000 on it just in the past year ( shocks, muffler, tires, pads, disks and a leak that was hard to find between the windshield and windshield frame that dropped water in the fuse box shorting the starting sequence ). I would be paying $2300 for a 4 door FWD 220 000 km.

Question is anyone know how much changing a K-frame on a 1997 Rav4 would cost? I'm willing to buy from a scrap yard if it will do to pass the test. What would be the amount of hours on average from an experienced mechanic to change a K-frame?

Thanks for any help.

This might also be called subframe, K-member, crossmember. Not sure. In french it's ' Longeron Membrure ' Unfortunately I was not present at the inspection. She did say the inspector said ' k-frame '

Thank you.

[Rav4Frame]

a little update,

Talked to 2 shop owners, one that has worked on the car for the past 5 years or so and one that I've personally known for 20 years. Never would he screw me over for anything, more a friend than ' my mechanic '.

Job would be 3-6 hours of labor plus part(s), already found a used front k-frame, aka subframe for $250 locally, found cheaper on the net ( $150 ). Both seem to agree on the number of hours without seeing it.

Anyways, they both seem surprised though. The latter even said it made no sense whatsoever that a 10 year old Toyota's sub frame would be rotted with 3 different 1 1/2 inches holes on one side ( passenger ). If it was the case that even if warranty is out or not, this is a major defect and to contact Toyota and that he has personally seen Toyota replace a subframe on 20 year old model. I was thinking drain holes for water accumulation and he mentioned the same. I've tried and tried to find a Rav4 1997 full K-frame pic on the net but no success. He was also surprised that the government accredited employee offered to buy the car if I didn't want it.

He and I will only see it on Saturday. I will try to keep you updated.

This is my mother's car, it's really been taken care of well, ok body and inside is not pristine but mechanical wise I would say it's in the very good condition except for supposedly the subframe. She worked for a Toyota dealership which is where it was serviced for the first part of it's life. The past 5 years have been with a trusted independent. I believe all invoices have been kept since day one.

What mystify's me is that no one has seen these supposedly big 1 1/2 holes? I mean they didn't just magically pierce through steel yesterday.

Thought welding but would that make it pass the safety check in the province of Quebec? Structural integrity?

Thank you.

[Rav4Frame]

Have an appointment with the dealer on Monday. Said they would inspect, take pictures and send to head office as they also seem surprised. More news to follow sometime next week, might not have net access from Sunday on.

Rav4 1997 4dr FWD Auto

[Rav4Frame]

Here are a few pics as promised. I went for a second opinion at my mechanic, he also has never seen this on a 10 year old Toyota except on recalls. This is definitely not normal wear. I guess we'll see what Toyota says on Monday...

What do you think of these?

[mastada]

Hey Rav4Frame.
I see alot of moisture around those 3 holes of that piece.
Is it both sides that are rusted like that or just one?
And if it is one, is it the side that the A/C condenser is on?
I've seen rare cases where the dripping of the A/C condenser continuosly drips on subframe components and then voila. In less than ten years major chasis components look just like yours.
And Toyota Canada wouldn't be too happy if this is the case and others started to question it.

[Rav4Frame]

Very interesting comment mastada.

Don't have much internet access these days ( out of town ) so replies might not be as quick, but would the A/C condenser be on the passenger's side of the car by any chance?

It's only one side rusted, passenger side.

Toyota might not be happy but let me tell you you have two people far from happy here. 1. me that wanted to buy a very well maintained Toyota quality SUV 2. my mom which bought a Toyota for the quality and good resale value.

This has nothing similar to the Tacoma problem?

I would love to hear from other Rav4 owners with similar frame issues and others that might think of anything related.

Thanks mastada.

[mastada]

Yes.
The A/C Condenser will be on the Passenger side. It's belt driven so is tied in with the belts, that should be on the Passenger side. I don't drive a Rav4 but if the belts are at the front of the engine the Condenser is no doubt on passenger side.
The case that I spoke of was one a Hyundai Sonata of similar age to your Rav4. The entire Engine Cradle rusted through and broke. It was taken to a Hyundai garage and it looked like $2000.00 worth of labour and parts to put in a new chasis piece, or toss the car out.
Sounds Similar so far doesn't it.
After a bunch of phone calls Hyundai Canada paid for the whole thing.
I see that your May 2 post says that a dealer took the pictures to send to head office. Keep at them, because it could be the same sort of design flaw.

[Rav4Frame]

Got the calls back from our dealer Bel-Air Lexus Toyota, Inc. and Toyota Canada, Inc. They basically said it's out of warranty and that's that. You should have had it rustproofed. Excuse me? If rustproofing is not an option because you and/or the ones that manufacture your frames do not always do an initial coat of rustproofing, then don't list it as an option and do it and include it in the price. I've never had such issues with other vehicles. Even much older ones.

“These vehicles may not have been properly treated in the plant with the undercoating that they use,” said Sam Butto, a Toyota spokesman.
Link who refers to the Tacomas. I'm sure before one of their spokesman pronounces these words A LOT of people must have complained. Some lost their hard earned money. The lucky ones that kept their Tacomas got either bought back at 1 1/2 Blue book excellent or repaired.

Both refuse any responsibility even though 2-3 oil changes per year were done at the dealer. Doesn't anyone do a minimum of a visual inspection? This rust didn't appear overnight. You'd think so by paying a higher rate at the dealer for an oil change than you would have if elsewhere.

So I've just started a website called Toyota Frame Rust http://www.ToyotaFrameRust.com ( work in progress ) so that people with frame rust issues on their Toyota can voice out their opinion and I can let the world know about how our experience with Toyota Canada and the dealer Bel-Air Lexus Toyota.

[Rav4Frame]

Originally Posted by mastada

Hey Rav4Frame.
I see alot of moisture around those 3 holes of that piece.
Is it both sides that are rusted like that or just one?
And if it is one, is it the side that the A/C condenser is on?
I've seen rare cases where the dripping of the A/C condenser continuosly drips on subframe components and then voila. In less than ten years major chasis components look just like yours.
And Toyota Canada wouldn't be too happy if this is the case and others started to question it.

btw it was a rainy day when the pics were taken, that's why you see a lot of moisture.

Unfortunately don't have a camera with me but I was checking around the engine today to find the ' evaporator housing drain tube ' and couldn't believe where it's placed. Right over the area where the sub-frame is rotted like you pointed out. When I look at it ( if that's the correct hose ) I say to myself, this could have been placed below the frame....easily

If that's the hose, makes no sense whatsoever to drain the moisture from the A/C over the frame. Definitely could be bad engineering. This is all slowly coming together to build a case.

I will try to update here, I've also started a thread on http://www.toyotaframerust.com/forum...ic.php?f=2&t=1