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Prius 2nd Gen - Hybrid (2004-2009) Toyota Prius Hybrid discussion for years 2004-2009.

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post #1 of 20 Old 07-18-2007, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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Why do people choose Prius?

http://blogs.toyota.com/2007/07/why-...le-c.html#more
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From the Some Things Are Self-Evident Department:
We’ve recently noticed the piece that ran in the July 15 edition of the San Francisco Chronicle, penned by Vickie Haddock, titled, "Oh, So Pious, Prius Drivers."
The piece quotes an item from CNW Market Research that suggests that a primary reason people choose Prius is because of the statement the car makes.
There's no suggestion as to what this statement might be, but we suppose it could be any one of several choices. It could be: A) "We’re concerned about the environment;" B) "We’re fed up with high gas prices;" C) "We’re doing our part to end the United States’ dependence upon foreign petroleum sources;" or D) Other.
Take your choice. Any one, or even all, could be true. And whether it’s one or all, where’s the problem with making such a statement?
The reality, of course, is that people do choose their vehicles based at least in part on the statements they make – even if that statement is subliminal. Prime examples might include Hummer H2, or Porsche 911, or Ford F250, or Chrysler 300, or Volvo S80. Sometimes the statement is style. Sometimes it’s macho brute force. Sometimes it’s performance. Sometimes it’s safety. Whatever it is, though, like it or not, intended or not, the choice always suggests a statement.
What CNW's information ignores, however, is what people are actually telling us. Our research, which is supported not by nebulous weird science, but by hard numbers, tells us that people choose Prius not for any statement their choice might make, but for practical, well-established reasons.
The number-one reason people choose Prius involves the Prius’ outstanding fuel economy. With gasoline hovering at around $3 per gallon, who wouldn’t want the kind of terrific fuel economy the Prius delivers?
The second reason people choose Prius is based on its engine type. The Prius is, of course, a very high-tech gasoline-electric hybrid.
Many folks these days are enthralled by technology and its benefits – witness the rise of the iPod, digital TV and the BlackBerry, among other things. If you’re interested in and impressed by technology that works, and if you’re a car buyer, then you’re likely to be interested in Prius.
Reason three is because of the Prius’ environmental impact. There are a wealth of factors rolled into this one. They include very low emissions, a very small carbon footprint and the recyclable nature of the NmH batteries that comprise part of the Prius’ power train.
There are still folks who dismiss the need to make any environmental impact, but we believe that problems like global warming, air pollution and our nation's dependence on foreign sources for petroleum cannot be ignored.
It is of course naïve to suggest that just buying a car, as opposed to rethinking the ways in which we all live our lives, will make a significant impact on climate change. But it certainly couldn’t hurt, could it?
The fourth reason folks list for choosing Prius is workmanship. We’d like to suggest that great workmanship is a common Toyota trait, one that we work hard on, and one that spreads across all of our product lines. We’re gratified, however, when it’s recognized by Prius owners, or by any of our other customers. It just indicates that we’re doing our jobs.
The fifth reason is related to number four – reliability and dependability. These are qualities that are expected from any Toyota product, for sure. But what's really remarkable is the very high degree of trust that the public has not just in Toyota products in general, but in our Hybrid Synergy Drive, especially given the high levels of technology involved. But then, given the fact that Toyota has been building the Prius with Hybrid Synergy Drive for 10 years, that trust seems well-founded.
So, does the Prius make a statement? Of course it does. We’d suggest that like it or not, anything you drive – for that matter, anything you wear, from your shirt to your wristwatch to your shoes – makes a statement. So if the statement being made by Prius owners is one of concern for the environment, one of concern for family economics, one of concern for reducing one’s carbon footprint or one of concern for reducing one’s personal draw-down from foreign oil sources, why, we’d say that that’s a pretty darned positive statement.
And, as an aside, if Prius owners enjoy the acclaim of their friends and neighbors for buying the car, as some research suggests, that merely tells us that the friends and neighbors get it, and might also one day choose to buy a vehicle that offers all the benefits that Prius offers.
So whatever the reason folks choose Prius, it’s all good. A half-million of them total, and the 175,000 new buyers forcast for this calendar year, can’t be too far wrong.
~ Contributed by Jon F. Thompson, Corporate Communications
To say that the only people who buy Prius' are idealistic environmentalists is a pretty ignorant statement, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Vmax2007 View Post
Toyota is not any more "special" than every other company the media has targeted in the past.
'16 Toyota Corolla S Plus 6MT
'00 Toyota Celica GT-S 6MT

Last edited by Bakemono; 07-18-2007 at 11:14 PM.
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post #2 of 20 Old 08-03-2007, 08:14 PM
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Once you see the name "Art Spinella" in an article about the Prius or hybrids, just stop reading. This man is a pathological lying hitman of the domestic car industry who can't stand that Toyota is eating their lunch -- as a result of their own stupidity and laziness. I particularly enjoy how his name has "spin" built right into it.

Don't believe me? Just Google him and you'll see.
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post #3 of 20 Old 09-09-2007, 12:55 PM
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People buy the Prius because they bought into the the Toyota propaganda myth that heavier, more complex (and therefore inefficient), overly expensive, rediculously slow, horrendously handling, hybrids somehow trump efficient, simple, fast and fun 3 and 4 cylinder diesal and gas cars in gas mileage and environmental impact.

Last edited by peanut_gallery; 09-09-2007 at 12:56 PM.
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post #4 of 20 Old 09-09-2007, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut_gallery
People buy the Prius because they bought into the the Toyota propaganda myth that heavier, more complex (and therefore inefficient), overly expensive, rediculously slow, horrendously handling, hybrids somehow trump efficient, simple, fast and fun 3 and 4 cylinder diesal and gas cars in gas mileage and environmental impact.
That's one of the silliest comments I've seen here in a long time. Great for a second post here on TN. Are you one of Art Spinelli's employees?

But let's pick it apart:

Heavier? Than what? A Prius weighs 2930 lbs, and is closer to the Camry in interior volume than it is to a Corolla (data: Prius 96 cu ft, Camry 101, Corolla 90). Camry weighs around 3200-3300 depending upon model and Corolla ~2800. Yep, that Prius is waaaaay overweight.

Complexity? Sure, there's some added with the hybrid system. On the other hand, Toyota has a million hybrid vehicles on the road world-wide, and the mass failures you'd expect to see if the complexity were really an issue just aren't happening. Hey, ALL cars today are complex. Howling about the Prius's complexity is nothing more than unsubstantiated fear-mongering.

Ridiculously slow? Let me guess -- you've never driven one at all, have you. Go check the performance data table in any recent Road and Track magazine. The Prius-II clocked a respectable 9.5 second 0-60 time. The Prius won't smoke any Corvettes, but that's not its mission either. Calling it "horrendously slow" isn't even close to reality, unless perhaps you're addicted to Corvette speed (in which case, why would you be worrying about a Prius at all).

Horrendous handling? More nonsense. The standard model Prius (as compared to the Touring model) does come with Goodyear Integrity tires which are in fact awful. The car's handling is a little spongy with these bad tires. Replace them with good rubber (I put on Michelin MXV4+s) and the car makes a magical transformation to downright good handling. No, it will never be a sports car, but if that's what you want, you shouldn't be driving this car anyway. The car handles just fine.

Comparisons? Please do show us some "fast and fun 3 and 4 cylinder diesal and gas cars" that provide 96 cubic feet of interior room, 15 cubic feet of cargo space, seat five, AND are truly capable of getting in excess of 50 mpg.

But again, please tell us how many miles YOU'VE logged in a Prius. . .
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post #5 of 20 Old 09-09-2007, 02:36 PM
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what would happen to a prius if it was drove off into some water??
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post #6 of 20 Old 09-09-2007, 02:40 PM
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Oh yeah peanut, you forgot to mention the complexity of new generation diesel (and it's "diesel, not diesal") engines and especially their exhaust systems. The "Bluetec" design, shared by several of the German makes, including MB and VW has a horrendously complex exhaust to comply with the emissions regs that drove the previous cars from the market. Some of them even require urea injection to make the cats and particle traps do their thing. Of course, I'm sure that when it's time for a urea refill, neither the VW nor the Mercedes dealers will try to rape their customers on that sale. So for all of you who love fear mongering about hybrid batteries failing, what should we be thinking about the reliability of these complex, multi-cat, multi-trap, piss-injected exhaust systems????
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post #7 of 20 Old 09-09-2007, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wonger
what would happen to a prius if it was drove off into some water??
Ummm ... it would sink. And when it gets pulled out, it would be declared a total loss. Just like any other modern car.

Now, I know, my comment wasn't really fair -- you are, I suspect, concerned about the electrical consequences. Not to worry, the system is designed to be very safe. It will isolate itself and shut off the battery. I mean, if you take a deep breath, swim down to your car on the bottom, open up the battery compartment and start kissing the thing, you might find a way to fry yourself. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I've been driving my Prius for over a year now, and I don't lose any sleep over such things. I'd be much more conerned about getting out of the car and not drowning than I would be about getting zapped. Again, just like any other car.
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post #8 of 20 Old 09-09-2007, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ekpolk
Ummm ... it would sink. And when it gets pulled out, it would be declared a total loss. Just like any other modern car.

Now, I know, my comment wasn't really fair -- you are, I suspect, concerned about the electrical consequences. Not to worry, the system is designed to be very safe. It will isolate itself and shut off the battery. I mean, if you take a deep breath, swim down to your car on the bottom, open up the battery compartment and start kissing the thing, you might find a way to fry yourself. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I've been driving my Prius for over a year now, and I don't lose any sleep over such things. I'd be much more conerned about getting out of the car and not drowning than I would be about getting zapped. Again, just like any other car.
thanks for the info.. is there anywhere i can read reviews bout it being safe in water?

i mean.. its a battery located in the rear with vents for it to breath.. water can still get into it and since its high voltage and amperage.. its pretty bad if anyone was near it in the water.. but i havent seen any test showing the effects yet

maybe i just dont understand how it can shut it self down from letting power zap the water
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post #9 of 20 Old 09-09-2007, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekpolk
That's one of the silliest comments I've seen here in a long time. Great for a second post here on TN. Are you one of Art Spinelli's employees?
Well, first off, we know you're a nutjob because you assume collabrative conspiracy the second someone says something you don't like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekpolk
But let's pick it apart:
Lets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Heavier? Than what? A Prius weighs 2930 lbs, and is closer to the Camry in interior volume than it is to a Corolla (data: Prius 96 cu ft, Camry 101, Corolla 90). Camry weighs around 3200-3300 depending upon model and Corolla ~2800. Yep, that Prius is waaaaay overweight.
The Prius is light because Toyota has removed nearly every feature availible in it's other cars (making the Prius's interior cheap and chinsy) and weakened the frame (making the Prius unsafe), just to compensate for the enormously heavy hybrid system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Complexity? Sure, there's some added with the hybrid system. On the other hand, Toyota has a million hybrid vehicles on the road world-wide, and the mass failures you'd expect to see if the complexity were really an issue just aren't happening. Hey, ALL cars today are complex. Howling about the Prius's complexity is nothing more than unsubstantiated fear-mongering.
Just because there are a lot of Priuses doesn't have anything to do with my point on complexity. The Prius may or may not be reliable, but that's not the point. The Prius is complex, and therefore by the laws of physics and principles of engineering, INEFFICIENT. If you subtracted the weight of the hybrid system, then ran the Prius just off the gas engine, it would get BETTER GAS MILEAGE than it does with the hybrid system (granted Toyota knows a thing or two about making decently efficient IC engines).


Quote:
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Ridiculously slow? Let me guess -- you've never driven one at all, have you. Go check the performance data table in any recent Road and Track magazine. The Prius-II clocked a respectable 9.5 second 0-60 time. The Prius won't smoke any Corvettes, but that's not its mission either. Calling it "horrendously slow" isn't even close to reality, unless perhaps you're addicted to Corvette speed (in which case, why would you be worrying about a Prius at all).
My car does 0-60 in 5.7 seconds (in comparison, a 2006 Corvette Z06 does 0-60 in about 3.7) 9.5 is REDICULOUSLY SLOW. I'm have a mini cooper s on order, and it gets 33 mpg and does 0-60 in... 6.4 seconds. The stock, base model mini cooper gets 40 mpg and does 0-60 in 8.5 seconds, A SECOND FASTER than the Prius. So yes, given the mediocre gas mileage of the Prius (for it's engine size) it's pretty anemic in speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Horrendous handling? More nonsense. The standard model Prius (as compared to the Touring model) does come with Goodyear Integrity tires which are in fact awful. The car's handling is a little spongy with these bad tires. Replace them with good rubber (I put on Michelin MXV4+s) and the car makes a magical transformation to downright good handling. No, it will never be a sports car, but if that's what you want, you shouldn't be driving this car anyway. The car handles just fine.
What does it hold on a skidpad? Does it still have the lame, unconnected Toyota electric steering? Why can't it be a "sports car", does Toyota not have the technical expertise to make a 4 door sedan drive like a sports car?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Comparisons? Please do show us some "fast and fun 3 and 4 cylinder diesal and gas cars" that provide 96 cubic feet of interior room, 15 cubic feet of cargo space, seat five, AND are truly capable of getting in excess of 50 mpg.

But again, please tell us how many miles YOU'VE logged in a Prius. . .
The Prius is not capable of 50 mpg, that's just more Hybrid hype. So is the 0-60 in 9.5 seconds. 13 is more like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdBVw...elated&search=

Why would I waste my time driving it?

Last edited by peanut_gallery; 09-09-2007 at 08:14 PM.
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post #10 of 20 Old 09-09-2007, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Oh yeah peanut, you forgot to mention the complexity of new generation diesel (and it's "diesel, not diesal") engines and especially their exhaust systems. The "Bluetec" design, shared by several of the German makes, including MB and VW has a horrendously complex exhaust to comply with the emissions regs that drove the previous cars from the market. Some of them even require urea injection to make the cats and particle traps do their thing. Of course, I'm sure that when it's time for a urea refill, neither the VW nor the Mercedes dealers will try to rape their customers on that sale. So for all of you who love fear mongering about hybrid batteries failing, what should we be thinking about the reliability of these complex, multi-cat, multi-trap, piss-injected exhaust systems????
It's so horribly complex that the new mercedes diesals actually have better emmissions than the Lexus GS and LS hybrids. They'd better too, or they won't pass the Naziesque regulations California has put on diesel cars. Unfortunately, California has be denied the real solution to gas consumption that the Europeans have been using for years (diesal cars) because of enviro-facist stupidity.

Diesel cars simply go further on a gallon of gas, and we just ignore them and buy hyped hybrids. I guess if the American motoring public is dumb enough to buy Cadillac Escalades with 400 inch chrome rims and their they are cool, it's no surprise that some people could be conned into buying a Prius. If you really care about the environment, get a Jetta TDI, a pure electric, or a hydrogen-powered 7 series. Those are real solutions. Hell, I want a hydrogen 7... It's only emissions are water, and it's barely slower then the ICE version.

I don't know where you are coming up with hybrid battery failures...? I never said they do (and I never thought they were unreliable), but they must be, because you seem so defensive about it.

Last edited by peanut_gallery; 09-09-2007 at 07:41 PM.
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post #11 of 20 Old 09-09-2007, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut_gallery
The Prius is light because Toyota has removed nearly every feature availible in it's other cars (making the Prius's interior cheap and chinsy) and weakened the frame (making the Prius unsafe), just to compensate for the enormously heavy hybrid system.


Just because there are a lot of Priuses doesn't have anything to do with my point on complexity. The Prius may or may not be reliable, but that's not the point. The Prius is complex, and therefore by the laws of physics and principles of engineering, INEFFICIENT. If you subtracted the weight of the hybrid system, then ran the Prius just off the gas engine, it would get BETTER GAS MILEAGE than it does with the hybrid system (granted Toyota knows a thing or two about making decently efficient IC engines).



My car does 0-60 in 5.7 seconds (in comparison, a 2006 Corvette Z06 does 0-60 in about 3.7) 9.5 is REDICULOUSLY SLOW. I'm have a mini cooper s on order, and it gets 33 mpg and does 0-60 in... 6.4 seconds. The stock, base model mini cooper gets 40 mpg and does 0-60 in 8.5 seconds, A SECOND FASTER than the Prius. So yes, given the mediocre gas mileage of the Prius (for it's engine size) it's pretty anemic in speed.


What does it hold on a skidpad? Does it still have the lame, unconnected Toyota electric steering? Why can't it be a "sports car", does Toyota not have the technical expertise to make a 4 door sedan drive like a sports car?


The Prius is not capable of 50 mpg, that's just more Hybrid hype. So is the 0-60 in 9.5 seconds. 13 is more like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdBVw...elated&search=

Why would I waste my time driving it?
That's the funniest commentary I've read so far.

50mpg? Yeah it isn't capable of 50mpg. I actually got 59mpG Damn!! I gotta report it to Toyota! I'm not getting EPA mileage!! THEY LIED!!!!


The Prius is light because of use of aluminium (you know that word?? or is is aluminum) and ultra-high tensile steel. It has stuff that your car probably doesn't have or does have but it cost less. Bluetooth, nav, backup camera, smart key. Those were sooooo 2004. Has your car caught up yet??


I really don't care about skidpad numbers. Why should I care about that if YOU don't care about mpg? Same thinking, right? You obviously prefer mph... we prefer mpg. We'll leave it at that and I'll respect your thinking.
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post #12 of 20 Old 09-09-2007, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut_gallery
It's so horribly complex that the new mercedes diesals actually have better emmissions than the Lexus GS and LS hybrids. They'd better too, or they won't pass the Naziesque regulations California has put on diesel cars. Unfortunately, California has be denied the real solution to gas consumption that the Europeans have been using for years (diesal cars) because of enviro-facist stupidity.

Diesel cars simply go further on a gallon of gas, and we just ignore them and buy hyped hybrids. I guess if the American motoring public is dumb enough to buy Cadillac Escalades with 400 inch chrome rims and their they are cool, it's no surprise that some people could be conned into buying a Prius. If you really care about the environment, get a Jetta TDI, a pure electric, or a hydrogen-powered 7 series. Those are real solutions. Hell, I want a hydrogen 7... It's only emissions are water, and it's barely slower then the ICE version.

I don't know where you are coming up with hybrid battery failures...? I never said they do (and I never thought they were unreliable), but they must be, because you seem so defensive about it.
Face it, it's too complex for a peanut gallery to understand. Give him/her a break, he/she's just a peanut!

cleaner? Both LSh and GSh are Tier 2 Bin 3 (go search if you don't know what that is). The best diesels (bluetec/bluemotion) are Tier 2 Bin 5s. We got that from gasoline motors back in 2003.

Actually, diesel cars go further on a gallon of diesel. I don't think they'll go very far on gasoline.

I'll agree on pure electrics. I'm waiting for the day I can commute in an EV that has decent acceleration and doesn't look like a toy. However.. hydrogen. That's still a hype, I'm afraid. It's that little carrot the auto industry LOVES to dangle in front of us to keep us hoping for a brighter future.

Also, what happens when we have 10 million cars spewing out water vapour? All I know is, I don't want to be in Arizona with that kind of humidity.
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post #13 of 20 Old 09-09-2007, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tideland Prius
That's the funniest commentary I've read so far.

50mpg? Yeah it isn't capable of 50mpg. I actually got 59mpG Damn!! I gotta report it to Toyota! I'm not getting EPA mileage!! THEY LIED!!!!
You got 59 mpg once, in one instance, when you drove like a grandma, just to get that mileage to prove it to someone that it could. Of course, you didn't really test it, by recording the miles driven then refilling the gas in the car, no, you just believed whatever the Toyota computer said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tideland Prius
The Prius is light because of use of aluminium (you know that word?? or is is aluminum) and ultra-high tensile steel. It has stuff that your car probably doesn't have or does have but it cost less. Bluetooth, nav, backup camera, smart key. Those were sooooo 2004. Has your car caught up yet??
My car was made with those materials 10 years ago. Perhaps Toyota can dump a few features into the Prius, but they can't set up a suspension worth anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tideland Prius
I really don't care about skidpad numbers. Why should I care about that if YOU don't care about mpg? Same thinking, right? You obviously prefer mph... we prefer mpg. We'll leave it at that and I'll respect your thinking.
No, you don't care about skidpad numbers because the Prius will never make good skidpad numbers, ever. That's because Toyota can barely manage to scrape together a hybrid system that is only as efficient as a regular four cylinder; while expecting it to handle decently, or drive fast, is just too much, right? Who would you be to expect a car company to make a decent all around car, not just a complete junker that only sells because of it's flashy (yet pointless) hybrid system. Well, that's why you're happy with a sub-par car like the Prius, and I'm not.
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post #14 of 20 Old 09-09-2007, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tideland Prius
Face it, it's too complex for a peanut gallery to understand. Give him/her a break, he/she's just a peanut!
Um, is this preschool?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tideland Prius
cleaner? Both LSh and GSh are Tier 2 Bin 3 (go search if you don't know what that is). The best diesels (bluetec/bluemotion) are Tier 2 Bin 5s. We got that from gasoline motors back in 2003.
I can almost imagine you closing your eyes when you talk and smelling your own farts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tideland Prius
Actually, diesel cars go further on a gallon of diesel. I don't think they'll go very far on gasoline.
You admit I'm right but argue semantics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tideland Prius
I'll agree on pure electrics. I'm waiting for the day I can commute in an EV that has decent acceleration and doesn't look like a toy. However.. hydrogen. That's still a hype, I'm afraid. It's that little carrot the auto industry LOVES to dangle in front of us to keep us hoping for a brighter future.
Right, so the fact that BMW is selling hydrogen cars in Germany at this very moment at not so unreasonable prices (given the car, a 7 series) which run reliably, pollution-free, and pretty much "as promised" means the hydrogen car is "hype"; while on the other hand, the Prius, which debuted with a claimed 99 mpg but now 5 years later can barely manage 45 mpg is the "reality" you've been waiting for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tideland Prius
Also, what happens when we have 10 million cars spewing out water vapour? All I know is, I don't want to be in Arizona with that kind of humidity.
So you'd choose clouds of nitrate and sulfate pollution caused by burning gas spewed into the air over an increase in humidity? Wow, that's really sensible.

Last edited by peanut_gallery; 09-09-2007 at 10:37 PM.
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post #15 of 20 Old 09-10-2007, 01:24 AM
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Thanks for your insightful comments, peanut


It's always great to have a bimmer-fanboy doing some PR in a Toyota forum
EchoHoLiK is offline  
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