Official 5th and 6th Gen Camry and 2nd Gen Solara Maintenance Thread - Page 10 - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
Camry 5th & 6th Gen (2002-2006 & 2007-2011)/2nd Gen Solara (2004-2008) Toyota Camry Discussion for years 2002-2006 & 2007-2011, as well as Solara Discussion for years 2004-2008. Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving America's favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.

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post #136 of 172 Old 04-17-2017, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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Made the following updates:

Updated Purolator Filter line to include Purolator Boss and current model names/numbers.

Updated Mobil 1 oil section to include Mobil 1 Emission System Performance and Annual Protection oils

Added a note concerning the "A" and "T" (i.e. IFR6A11 and IFR6T11) designations present on some NGK Laser Iridium Plugs.
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post #137 of 172 Old 04-18-2017, 05:47 AM Thread Starter
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Added Gen 2 Solara info to the sticky for all sections (including suspension).

I also added a quick Generation guide at the beginning of the thread.
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post #138 of 172 Old 04-18-2017, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by hardtopte72 View Post
After reading this post, I set out to do research on this oil. It's very very new and sites like bobistheoilguy had no data on the oil. I went on the Mobil 1 website and watched the propaganda video. From the video, it looks to be very good oil, as most are. Lots of points are vague and of note was the fact that they specifically pointed out good cleanliness in all 3 engines, testing for all 3 engines, and that they tore down all 3 engines, but specifically only mentioned the Lexus when talking about low/no wear in the crank and bearings. They did this is in the video and text, which sort of leads me to believe the other engines showed signs of wear, considering they made the video and weren't on a set time slot.

I was really interested in the hot oil behavior they mentioned in the shaft test, where they super heat a part and spray oil on it. Any discoloration left behind was caused by the oil burning and leaving varnish or deposits. It obviously did the best in that category, which is interesting.
The big unanswered questions for me had to do with acid buffering and TBN, since these are the real constraints on extended drain in a healthy engine that has no special lubrication issues, e.g. the 1MZ-FE V6 with all the post-2002 upgrades to improve oil temperature management, but not the 2AZ-FE oil-burner. Mobil 1 AP is clearly positioned as an Amsoil Signature Series killer but unlike Amsoil, Mobil's marketing literature does not give a maximum number of operating hours--just a maximum length of time (1 year) and a maximum mileage (20,000 miles). TBN might well hold up over 20,000 mostly highway miles accumulated over a year, but not if the 20,000 miles includes a lot of idling. As an economic proposition, extended drain is tenuous since you go into the hole on lab testing ($35/sample at Blackstone before quantity discount) to establish a robust drain interval before you start saving on a reduced per-mile oil cost.

Pennzoil Platinum is fairly typical of a budget-priced full synthetic ("Walmart synthetic") that supports reliable clean operation if changed at the factory intervals. BITOG has a thread giving results for it at about 10,000 mostly highway miles in a Toyota (Highlander, I think) with the 2GR-FE V6. Blackstone lab results showed zero shear but TBN down to 1 (the minimum acceptable value--it is widely thought that Blackstone's TBN measurements are more conservative than other labs'). This is what I rely on for a margin of error if an oil change falls due when I am hundreds of miles away from home base. (I don't use iffy-lube places or haul oil change equipment on roadtrips anymore, and don't use conventional oil at all because it shears down fast and has bottom-of-the-barrel sludge resistance.)

Returning to Mobil 1 AP, I really liked the visuals from the thin-film oxidation test too, but when the car is 500,000 miles old and looking like a junker, and the cam covers come off for the first time, does it really matter whether the lubed parts look silver or gold-colored?
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post #139 of 172 Old 04-18-2017, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J N Winkler View Post
The big unanswered questions for me had to do with acid buffering and TBN, since these are the real constraints on extended drain in a healthy engine that has no special lubrication issues, e.g. the 1MZ-FE V6 with all the post-2002 upgrades to improve oil temperature management, but not the 2AZ-FE oil-burner. Mobil 1 AP is clearly positioned as an Amsoil Signature Series killer but unlike Amsoil, Mobil's marketing literature does not give a maximum number of operating hours--just a maximum length of time (1 year) and a maximum mileage (20,000 miles). TBN might well hold up over 20,000 mostly highway miles accumulated over a year, but not if the 20,000 miles includes a lot of idling. As an economic proposition, extended drain is tenuous since you go into the hole on lab testing ($35/sample at Blackstone before quantity discount) to establish a robust drain interval before you start saving on a reduced per-mile oil cost.

Pennzoil Platinum is fairly typical of a budget-priced full synthetic ("Walmart synthetic") that supports reliable clean operation if changed at the factory intervals. BITOG has a thread giving results for it at about 10,000 mostly highway miles in a Toyota (Highlander, I think) with the 2GR-FE V6. Blackstone lab results showed zero shear but TBN down to 1 (the minimum acceptable value--it is widely thought that Blackstone's TBN measurements are more conservative than other labs'). This is what I rely on for a margin of error if an oil change falls due when I am hundreds of miles away from home base. (I don't use iffy-lube places or haul oil change equipment on roadtrips anymore, and don't use conventional oil at all because it shears down fast and has bottom-of-the-barrel sludge resistance.)

Returning to Mobil 1 AP, I really liked the visuals from the thin-film oxidation test too, but when the car is 500,000 miles old and looking like a junker, and the cam covers come off for the first time, does it really matter whether the lubed parts look silver or gold-colored?
Little OT, but do you have a link listing the post-2002 updates to the 1MZ? Wondering because my newest one is in an '02 Sienna.

00 Camry 5S-FE 184k smoooth
01 ES300 147k NEEDS TRANS WORK
01 Insight 137k BROKEN CAMSHAFT
02 Insight 178k DC-DC BELLY-UP

08 STS-V 67k 570 RWHP!
01 Viggen 112k 400 FWHP
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post #140 of 172 Old 04-18-2017, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by J N Winkler View Post
The big unanswered questions for me had to do with acid buffering and TBN, since these are the real constraints on extended drain in a healthy engine that has no special lubrication issues, e.g. the 1MZ-FE V6 with all the post-2002 upgrades to improve oil temperature management, but not the 2AZ-FE oil-burner. Mobil 1 AP is clearly positioned as an Amsoil Signature Series killer but unlike Amsoil, Mobil's marketing literature does not give a maximum number of operating hours--just a maximum length of time (1 year) and a maximum mileage (20,000 miles). TBN might well hold up over 20,000 mostly highway miles accumulated over a year, but not if the 20,000 miles includes a lot of idling. As an economic proposition, extended drain is tenuous since you go into the hole on lab testing ($35/sample at Blackstone before quantity discount) to establish a robust drain interval before you start saving on a reduced per-mile oil cost.

Pennzoil Platinum is fairly typical of a budget-priced full synthetic ("Walmart synthetic") that supports reliable clean operation if changed at the factory intervals. BITOG has a thread giving results for it at about 10,000 mostly highway miles in a Toyota (Highlander, I think) with the 2GR-FE V6. Blackstone lab results showed zero shear but TBN down to 1 (the minimum acceptable value--it is widely thought that Blackstone's TBN measurements are more conservative than other labs'). This is what I rely on for a margin of error if an oil change falls due when I am hundreds of miles away from home base. (I don't use iffy-lube places or haul oil change equipment on roadtrips anymore, and don't use conventional oil at all because it shears down fast and has bottom-of-the-barrel sludge resistance.)

Returning to Mobil 1 AP, I really liked the visuals from the thin-film oxidation test too, but when the car is 500,000 miles old and looking like a junker, and the cam covers come off for the first time, does it really matter whether the lubed parts look silver or gold-colored?
The available Product Data Sheets were very scaled down and neither grade had a listed Viscosity Index and other data points. I was surprised I couldn't find a VOA and UOA on bobistheoilguy.

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post #141 of 172 Old 04-18-2017, 06:13 PM
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The available Product Data Sheets were very scaled down and neither grade had a listed Viscosity Index and other data points. I was surprised I couldn't find a VOA and UOA on bobistheoilguy.
Lot of trash talk and entrail-reading on this BITOG thread, especially about the possibilities of it being a jumped-up API Group III oil and a trial balloon to test consumer acceptance of boutique pricing for Walmart synthetics:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...ual_Protection

It's early days yet--a Google search for {+"Mobil 1" +"Annual Protection" + UOA} turned up just 13 results, only some of which were relevant, the oldest relevant link (dated last February 27) being the BITOG thread linked above.

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Little OT, but do you have a link listing the post-2002 updates to the 1MZ? Wondering because my newest one is in an '02 Sienna.
The PCV system was redesigned to keep vapors trapped in the crankcase from oxidizing the oil and causing sludge (a problem that was aggravated by trips too short to allow the engine to warm up fully). Also, in 2002, Toyota made a production change to the oil return passages to prevent oil from pooling in the cylinder head and "cooking" into sludge. Some scuttlebutt also suggests the 1MZ-FE was early on biased to run rich for longevity (avoiding pinging), but Toyota redesigned the knock sensor for (at least some) of the fifth-generation Camrys and this may have allowed the engines to be tuned to run closer to lean.

This is the best discussion I have found of the various issues:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/es-...e-problem.html

Toyota was also sued in a class action over 1MZ-FE sludge, and settled. The settlement website is long gone from the live Web but is available through the Web Archive.

https://web-beta.archive.org/web/200...settlement.pdf

https://web-beta.archive.org/web/200...led_notice.pdf
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post #142 of 172 Old 04-28-2017, 12:26 PM
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I have a question about OEM wiper blade inserts for a 2005 Camry XLE V6. The information on wipers given in post #2 in this thread advocates replacing the OEM wiper blade assemblies with longer ones that are OEM for a Corolla, but since my blade assemblies are in excellent condition after 12 years of continuous garaging, I want to replace the blade inserts only.

My problem: when I approached the parts counter at the local Toyota dealership asking about blade inserts, I was asked, "Are your assemblies Denso or Valeo?" and had to stop right there because I didn't know. This is not a TMC versus TMMK distinction (my vehicle is TMMK).

I went to a Toyota parts site to look specifically at blade inserts (item #5 in the diagram linked below), and it appears there are two choices each for left and right, one with no identified supplier, and the other with Itta Esna as the supplier. All four are under separate part numbers (left: 85214-02150, 82514-YZZFZ; right: 85214-0C011, 82514-YZZE4).

http://toyotapartsestore.com/2005-to...nents-8521302/

Can I count on all of these choices to interchange successfully with what is already on the car, or do I need to figure out a way to determine what hardware I have?
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post #143 of 172 Old 04-28-2017, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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I have a question about OEM wiper blade inserts for a 2005 Camry XLE V6. The information on wipers given in post #2 in this thread advocates replacing the OEM wiper blade assemblies with longer ones that are OEM for a Corolla, but since my blade assemblies are in excellent condition after 12 years of continuous garaging, I want to replace the blade inserts only.

My problem: when I approached the parts counter at the local Toyota dealership asking about blade inserts, I was asked, "Are your assemblies Denso or Valeo?" and had to stop right there because I didn't know. This is not a TMC versus TMMK distinction (my vehicle is TMMK).

I went to a Toyota parts site to look specifically at blade inserts (item #5 in the diagram linked below), and it appears there are two choices each for left and right, one with no identified supplier, and the other with Itta Esna as the supplier. All four are under separate part numbers (left: 85214-02150, 82514-YZZFZ; right: 85214-0C011, 82514-YZZE4).

http://toyotapartsestore.com/2005-to...nents-8521302/

Can I count on all of these choices to interchange successfully with what is already on the car, or do I need to figure out a way to determine what hardware I have?
You probably won't be able to tell except to remove the blade insert and try them. My guess is they will both for and work, but unless you can identify a number or manufacturer on your blade or insert, you are probably SOL.

As an aside, I would guess Japanese built cars have Denso blades and American built cars have Valeo blades.

Hope that helps.

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post #144 of 172 Old 05-03-2017, 01:17 PM
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Hardtopte72--Many thanks. I was afraid the answer might be exactly what it was!

I've had a look at the blade assemblies and not been able to find a part number on the inserts. I'm also more doubtful about the strategy of replacing just the inserts, because the insert backing has four barbs that keep the insert and backing from sliding in and out of the claws in the blade assembly. I cannot see a nondestructive way of getting the insert and backing out. Pliers might compress the barbs on one side, but this might ruin the backing; tearing off the insert at one end might create enough slack to pull barbs past the claw, but then I would have the problem of threading an intact new insert through the claw without galling paint on the inside; pliers might loosen the claw but also damage it. I've had a look on YouTube and the only blade replacement videos for Toyotas with my OEM setup show replacement of complete blade assemblies. The ones that show insert replacement are all for later Toyotas and the insert backings all have rectangular cutouts instead of barbs.

At this point I'm looking at revitalizing the rubber with alcohol and silicone, or moving up to a later OEM style with slightly longer blade assemblies and easy insert replacement as outlined in post #2.
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Originally Posted by J N Winkler View Post
I cannot see a nondestructive way of getting the insert and backing out. Pliers might compress the barbs on one side, but this might ruin the backing; tearing off the insert at one end might create enough slack to pull barbs past the claw, but then I would have the problem of threading an intact new insert through the claw without galling paint on the inside; pliers might loosen the claw but also damage it. .
Why not go to a dealer
1. to find out which brand/model blade you have...and
2. how to replace the inserts for yourself.

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post #146 of 172 Old 05-03-2017, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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Hardtopte72--Many thanks. I was afraid the answer might be exactly what it was!

I've had a look at the blade assemblies and not been able to find a part number on the inserts. I'm also more doubtful about the strategy of replacing just the inserts, because the insert backing has four barbs that keep the insert and backing from sliding in and out of the claws in the blade assembly. I cannot see a nondestructive way of getting the insert and backing out. Pliers might compress the barbs on one side, but this might ruin the backing; tearing off the insert at one end might create enough slack to pull barbs past the claw, but then I would have the problem of threading an intact new insert through the claw without galling paint on the inside; pliers might loosen the claw but also damage it. I've had a look on YouTube and the only blade replacement videos for Toyotas with my OEM setup show replacement of complete blade assemblies. The ones that show insert replacement are all for later Toyotas and the insert backings all have rectangular cutouts instead of barbs.

At this point I'm looking at revitalizing the rubber with alcohol and silicone, or moving up to a later OEM style with slightly longer blade assemblies and easy insert replacement as outlined in post #2.
Can you take some pics? I just replaced inserts on my Denso Designer blades with OEM Toyota inserts. I will be making a DIY but I'm curious to see the difference.

I would also wager your blades even if purchased from Toyota prior to 2 years ago, are not actually OEM but standard aftermarket blades with a Toyota label sold through a distributor for Toyota dealers. This same thing happens with filters brake pads where the replacement numbers are not OEM numbers. They are usually identifiable by having a "YZZ" in the part number. If you see YZZ, you can bet the part number is an aftermarket part sold at a dealer.

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post #147 of 172 Old 05-06-2017, 01:01 AM
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We figured out how to use a snub-nose pliers to squeeze the backings on either side so that the barbs would ease past the end claw with gentle pressure. I then went to the Toyota dealer, discovered inserts were not available under the YZZ part numbers quoted above, and ended up buying OEM inserts under part numbers 85214-02150 and 85214-0C011. I did not buy new backings, however.

The new inserts differ significantly in design from the older ones. The older ones have an uniform cross-section with four channels (two for backings, two for claws) that run all the way to each end. The newer ones also have four channels, but each of the backing channels is closed shortly before each end, and one end is fat with two divots for the end claw that are in line with but separate from the claw channels. I think these divots, rather than barbs on the backings, are the retaining system that keeps the insert from flying off the assembly when the wipers are run.

It took about an hour of experimentation to get the new inserts to fit with the old backings. Fit is quite good for the long (driver's side) assembly since the backing barbs line up with the divot for the end claw, thus providing belt-and-suspenders retaining. Fit is fair to poor for the short (passenger's side) assembly. The backings are slightly too long for the insert, which has to be stretched slightly for them to fit, and the divots do not quite line up with the barbs, so I eventually had to use a bench vise to flatten the barbs so the claw would sit in the divot without stretching the blade material. I think this "good enough for government work" solution will hold until I next have to replace inserts.

I took the old passenger-side insert with me to the dealer for comparison. In retrospect (following KitaCamry's suggestion), I should have taken the complete assembly with me, and asked to have a new assembly pulled from stock so that I could do a visual comparison.

I also talked with my father, who has handled past maintenance on this Camry, and he says he replaced the inserts once. The blade assemblies are factory original but I am not sure about the insert backings.

The pictures show reassembly of the passenger's wiper with the old insert to demonstrate how the retaining system works. Besides the barbs on the outside, each backing strip has a pair of spurs that dig into the insert. One of the pictures shows the two holes that are left. The next post illustrates the fit issues with the new inserts.

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post #148 of 172 Old 05-06-2017, 01:08 AM
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At the fat end, the claw channels end in raised bumps and then the divot. At the thin end, the claw channel goes all the way to the end (so that the insert can be pulled on through the claws), but the backing channel ends shortly before that.

The post following this shows how things look when everything is sweet and divots line up with barbs.
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post #149 of 172 Old 05-06-2017, 01:15 AM
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Claw snugly in divots and between barbs.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg toyota-camry-2005-wiper-insert-replacement-2017-05-05_0016.jpg (235.3 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg toyota-camry-2005-wiper-insert-replacement-2017-05-05_0017.jpg (219.0 KB, 12 views)
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post #150 of 172 Old 05-07-2017, 01:12 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by J N Winkler View Post
We figured out how to use a snub-nose pliers to squeeze the backings on either side so that the barbs would ease past the end claw with gentle pressure. I then went to the Toyota dealer, discovered inserts were not available under the YZZ part numbers quoted above, and ended up buying OEM inserts under part numbers 85214-02150 and 85214-0C011. I did not buy new backings, however.

The new inserts differ significantly in design from the older ones. The older ones have an uniform cross-section with four channels (two for backings, two for claws) that run all the way to each end. The newer ones also have four channels, but each of the backing channels is closed shortly before each end, and one end is fat with two divots for the end claw that are in line with but separate from the claw channels. I think these divots, rather than barbs on the backings, are the retaining system that keeps the insert from flying off the assembly when the wipers are run.

It took about an hour of experimentation to get the new inserts to fit with the old backings. Fit is quite good for the long (driver's side) assembly since the backing barbs line up with the divot for the end claw, thus providing belt-and-suspenders retaining. Fit is fair to poor for the short (passenger's side) assembly. The backings are slightly too long for the insert, which has to be stretched slightly for them to fit, and the divots do not quite line up with the barbs, so I eventually had to use a bench vise to flatten the barbs so the claw would sit in the divot without stretching the blade material. I think this "good enough for government work" solution will hold until I next have to replace inserts.

I took the old passenger-side insert with me to the dealer for comparison. In retrospect (following KitaCamry's suggestion), I should have taken the complete assembly with me, and asked to have a new assembly pulled from stock so that I could do a visual comparison.

I also talked with my father, who has handled past maintenance on this Camry, and he says he replaced the inserts once. The blade assemblies are factory original but I am not sure about the insert backings.

The pictures show reassembly of the passenger's wiper with the old insert to demonstrate how the retaining system works. Besides the barbs on the outside, each backing strip has a pair of spurs that dig into the insert. One of the pictures shows the two holes that are left. The next post illustrates the fit issues with the new inserts.
My inserts look the the parts you purchased from the second post

I would tell you to ditch those blades and swap to Denso Designer. You will never go back to those

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  Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums > Toyota Passenger and Sports Car Forums > Camry and Solara Forum > Camry 5th & 6th Gen (2002-2006 & 2007-2011)/2nd Gen Solara (2004-2008)

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