Hybrid battery replacement - Page 2 - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
Camry Hybrid Discussion area for the Toyota Camry Hybrid. Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving Americas favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.

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post #16 of 198 Old 07-18-2012, 12:02 PM
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On Optima website D34 and D34M costs the same! $234.99

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post #17 of 198 Old 07-18-2012, 12:56 PM
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That might be true. But we'll never know.

It's hard to imagine how they could increase cycling capacity without using heavier lead plates. They could do this by using less porous lead material, but you would then expect a decrease in cranking amps.
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post #18 of 198 Old 07-18-2012, 01:32 PM
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So no one knows answer to my question ?

how many Watts I can run off of the the new Camry's 12V Aux battery while the car is Powered On? doesn't have to be exact, an estimate is fine.

I want to buy a Power Invertor to use as Emergency Home Backup Power. Thinking of buying a 1750 Power Invertor.

Is 1750 Watt too high a number ? And is it possible to add more Wattage capacity ?

Thx.

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post #19 of 198 Old 07-18-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Connect wires to new battery BEFORE replacing old one? You serious? You ever tried that yourself? All he needs is a reasonably small back up 12V battery, 20 or so bucks worth, hooked up parallel to battery cables, and that's POC to do.
If you use the D34M Blue top battery, it is a piece of cake to connect the new battery before you disconnect the old. Just use the extra set of terminals, for your temporary, make before break wires. You are correct. It would be much more difficult if you use the D34 Yellow top which only has single terminals. Probably would need more hands than an octopus...
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post #20 of 198 Old 07-18-2012, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz_TCH View Post
how many Watts I can run off of the the new Camry's 12V Aux battery while the car is Powered On? doesn't have to be exact, an estimate is fine.
What I recall reading somewhere is that you are supposed to limit charging current to the 12V battery. From memory, I believe Toyota recommends a max of 5 amps. 5 amps at 12 volts is 60 watts (P=IV). The question would be whether or not the charger from the HV battery respects that charging limit.

That said, I think at one point Toyota may have used a gel type battery instead of an AGM. Gel types are quite sensitive to overcharging. It cause bubbles in the gel which in turn shortens their life. They may now be using an AGM which should take more than 5 amps.
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post #21 of 198 Old 07-18-2012, 04:50 PM
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There is really no charge or discharge limit for AGMs. With their low internal impedance, they don't heat up much.

A 1750 Watt inverter should pull less than 20 amps including heat loss from the inverter. Trolling motors draw more than that from deep cycle batteries under sustained use conditions.

I don't understand the TCH charging system yet, but it should be able to keep up with a 20 amp draw.
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post #22 of 198 Old 07-18-2012, 09:53 PM
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Thinking about it more, the battery will limit charging rate as it charges up and voltage increases. Still the charging system has to feed the headlights, sound system, and all the rest of 12 Volt accessories. That will be a lot more than the 5 amp limit for charging. So it is quite possible that the charging system is good for 20-30 amps or more.
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post #23 of 198 Old 07-18-2012, 10:23 PM
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Power equals current times voltage. P=IxE by that formula you need 145 amps plus the losses in the converter. Will flatten the battery pretty quickly in my opinion.
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post #24 of 198 Old 07-19-2012, 08:10 AM
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Inverters are typically rated at the AC side.

So 1750W at 115V is only 15.2 amps.

They draw more than that because of thermal losses that will depend on the efficiency of the particular inverter.

Many RVs use 1750W inverters with regular deep cycle batteries.
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post #25 of 198 Old 07-19-2012, 09:46 AM
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Most new cars have what used to be the cigarette lighter now labeled 12/120 volt power plug. It's fused at 15 or 20 amps on most cars. That would indicate the standard design criteria for customer usable loads from the battery and charging system is around 20 amps. If you add that to the other options like the radio/nav (fused at 15 also) that you most likely wouldn't be using while using an external inverter, I still wouldn't put larger that a 300 watt 120v inverter on the battery.


Last edited by wmapple; 07-20-2012 at 10:32 AM. Reason: brain fart
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post #26 of 198 Old 07-19-2012, 04:01 PM
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To produce 15 amps at 110 volts you need 138 amps at 12 volts, assuming zero losses in the inverter.

Last edited by Ron AKA; 07-19-2012 at 04:03 PM.
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post #27 of 198 Old 07-19-2012, 07:28 PM
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You are correct.

I've been home nursing a broken finger and had a brain fart.

The rule of thumb is that it takes approx. 10 amps at 12V DC to produce approx. 1 amp at 110V AC. Good pure sin wave inverters are about 90% efficient.

A 1750W load should drain the battery in under 1/2 hr. So it still comes down to the output of MG1.

Last edited by Doc Stressor; 07-19-2012 at 07:31 PM.
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post #28 of 198 Old 07-20-2012, 11:00 AM
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Hello, I noticed your conversation involving our batteries and wanted to offer some assistance. First and foremost, all lead-acid batteries can vent gas that is both toxic and flammable, regardless of whether or not they are "sealed" or "maintenance-free." The Camry hybrid battery is located in the trunk and needs to be properly-vented to the outside air, as do any batteries that are located in any enclosed space in a vehicle. The D34M BlueTop and D34 YellowTop mentioned in this thread, do not have provisions for external venting (both batteries are identical internally).

The DS46B24R YellowTop for the Prius does have a vent port, where an external vent hose can be attached, although I do not believe that battery meets or exceeds the OEM specs for the Camry. While a venting scenario is rare and may be unlikely to happen, we cannot recommend placing any battery is an enclosed location, unless it can be safely vented to the outside air.

In addition to our DS46B24R, our Group 27, 31, 34C, 51 and 78 batteries all have provisions for external venting, but we would consider all of those batteries to be custom fitments in a Camry Hybrid and special modifications may be needed to accommodate them. If anyone has any questions about our batteries, I'll do my best to answer them.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.twitter.com/optimabatteries
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post #29 of 198 Old 07-20-2012, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oz_TCH View Post
Doesn't the "marine" type batteries supposedly give you many many more charge/discharge cycles than the car type batteries ? therefore the added cost/price ?
There are different types for different marine duty cycles. There is a marine starting battery which is a lot like a regular car battery, but typically has HD plates to stand up to pounding a planing boat gives a battery. It may also have a more spill-resistant vent design, but for the most part is engineered for a car-like charge/discharge cycle.

Then there is a deep cycle battery - which has different internal construction, typically with fewer but thicker plates. A starting battery will have e very short life if 'deep cycled' as the plate thickness, separator material, and grid design will not hold up to the chemical changes related to charge/discharge cycles. A deep cycle battery will also not be as good at high-amp loads - the design is for slow and steady loads, not sharp and peaky ones. Not that some deep cycle batteries can't work as starting batteries in a pinch - it's just that it will not have them live a long life.

The Camry hybrid 12 volt battery needs to be able to tolerate deep cycle, but doesn't have starting loads - MG1 that is used to start the ICE runs off the traction battery. As has been stated elsewhere, due to the lack of venting, a sealed design is critical to avoid risk of H2 accumulation.
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post #30 of 198 Old 07-20-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OptimaJim View Post
First and foremost, all lead-acid batteries can vent gas that is both toxic and flammable, regardless of whether or not they are "sealed" or "maintenance-free." The Camry hybrid battery is located in the trunk and needs to be properly-vented to the outside air, as do any batteries that are located in any enclosed space in a vehicle.

If anyone has any questions about our batteries, I'll do my best to answer them.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.twitter.com/optimabatteries
The OEM supplied battery in the 2012 Camry Hybrid is not vented.

What is the difference between the D34M Blue Top and the D34 Yellow Top? Is it only the dual terminals on the Blue Top?
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