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post #106 of 484 Old 07-23-2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doznI4SE View Post

What Zembonez said above and.......

The point again is that Nitrogen does not "resist moisture" as WhiteSands advertised.

An air compressor which is properly maintained and has a moisture filter can deliver moisture-free air into a tire.

A Nitrogen or air compressor that is not properly maintained can introduce moisture into your tires.

And let's recall that regular air is 78% Nitrogen.

For military, airline, industrial, and racing, etc Nitrogen benefits makes sense. If you're getting Nitrogen free, that's great.

I'm not wasting my money on Nitrogen since my tires don't go through the extreme conditions of military, airline, industrial, and racing vehicles that warrant paying for it.

Anyone here ever had to have their wheels or tires replaced due to internal moisture damage?
Your choice, i'm sticking with nitrogen. Yes, it's now free for me which came in my XLE TCH and my wife's few year old Ford Ranger. The other reason I like nitrogen is that it gets up to 105 to 109 degrees here in the desert. Can you imagine the pavement temperatures, probably like 135 degrees.

http://www.selubes.com/oil-change-se...PurigeN98.html
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post #107 of 484 Old 07-23-2012, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron AKA View Post
With steel wheels moisture can rust the rim. Near the bead rust can cause bead leaks. However, they can usually be cleaned up and resealed. Never have had to replace a rim due to corrosion. Not an issue at all with aluminum wheels.
I had a few early tubeless tires that leaked due to what looked like rust on the rims. That was probably due to me using a air supply that had moisture in the tank at some service station.
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post #108 of 484 Old 07-23-2012, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteSands View Post
Your choice, i'm sticking with nitrogen. Yes, it's now free for me which came in my XLE TCH and my wife's few year old Ford Ranger. The other reason I like nitrogen is that it gets up to 105 to 109 degrees here in the desert. Can you imagine the pavement temperatures, probably like 135 degrees.
Nitrogen in tires doesn't make them run cooler and doesn't cool the pavement.
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post #109 of 484 Old 07-23-2012, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Curtis_TX View Post
Nitrogen in tires doesn't make them run cooler and doesn't cool the pavement.
I never said nitrogen would cool the pavement. I'm not sure what you will do when nitrogen becomes the standard to fill all tires. I remember back when it cost $150 to fill a set of tires, now it's as low as $25 to $30 and will get lower over the years.

Six of so years ago a Sony 32" flat panel TV cost $1395, now you can buy that same improved 2012 model for $298.

check this out then read from the site.

1. Tires with air lose pressure four times faster than those with nitrogen.
2. Nitrogen-inflated tires are less susceptible to steel-belt and rubber damage because the gas has
no moisture.
3. Nitrogen-inflated tires run cooler and require less maintenance.
4. Nitrogen is nonflammable and has been used in aircraft and race cars for more than 30 years.

Sources: Michelin Tire Manual, Goodyear and Get Nitrogen Institute

http://nitrogenman.com/pdfs/biz_jrnl_04_02_07.pdf
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post #110 of 484 Old 07-23-2012, 04:53 PM
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http://home.comcast.net/~prestondrake/N2_FAQ_Q02.htm

"A tire filled with nitrogen to X psi will run at the same temperature as a tire filled with air to X psi."
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post #111 of 484 Old 07-23-2012, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Curtis_TX View Post
http://home.comcast.net/~prestondrake/N2_FAQ_Q02.htm

"A tire filled with nitrogen to X psi will run at the same temperature as a tire filled with air to X psi."
I agree.
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post #112 of 484 Old 07-24-2012, 12:02 AM
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http://home.comcast.net/~prestondrake/N2_FAQ_Q11.htm:

So, for the average car/bike owner…nitrogen or air?


If you’re a slacker when it comes to checking tire pressures (or using valve stem caps), then nitrogen may be just the thing for you; decide for yourself whether the time you save in pressure-checking justifies the extra cost of using nitrogen. But if you’re as vigilant as you ought to be about vehicle maintenance/inspection, then here’s what you can expect:

fuel economy: no difference.
Pressure-versus-temperature behavior: no difference, unless the air you’re using came straight from the atmosphere on an extremely humid day.
Tire operating temperature: no difference.
Tire oxidation/aging/failure: no difference.
Leaky valves: no difference.
Rim oxidation/corrosion: no difference.

In fact, according to this article, “Michelin officials recommend nitrogen only for tires used ‘in a high risk environment and/or when the user wants to reduce the consequences of a potential abnormal overheating of the tire-wheel assembly (for example in some aircraft applications),’ according to a company statement.” IOW, the average Joe should save his hard-earned money and just inflate his tires with air.

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post #113 of 484 Old 07-24-2012, 05:16 AM
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I like the website you listed which I expanded below. Looks like many sites are for and others are against the nitrogen idea. I like knowing my tires will stay up for a 'year' before needing a couple pounds more nitrogen. I proved that to myself starting 4 years ago with a new set of michelin energy saver tires on my '07 TCH. The tire with nitrogen, holding air up to a year is why the claim of improved mpg.

I remember years ago when I used to take my car to discount tires to get my tires rotated and balance every 5000 miles. I would drive off and could feel the sporty feeling in the steering due to them airing up my tires. That would only last for a about 3 weeks. Now with nitrogen I can have that same crisp steering all year long.

Nitrogen in your tires: an inflated idea?

Advocates say filling your tires with the gas instead of air will help keep correct pressure and better gas mileage.

By TOM ZUCCO
Published September 28, 2005

Gassing up your car is about to take on a new meaning.

Fill your tires with pure nitrogen and you'll get better gas mileage, advocates of the practice say. Your tires will be safer, and they'll last longer.

A colorless, odorless, tasteless gas that makes up about 78 percent of the Earth's atmosphere, nitrogen could cost you as much as $10 a tire. But what you save on gas, tire replacement and peace of mind will make up the difference, according to the pitch.

Already, retailers like Costco and Olin Mott stores offer nitrogen, and Pep Boys has test-marketed it.

Starting Saturday, buyers of all new cars sold at select Crown dealerships in the Tampa Bay area will find their tires filled with nitrogen. Eventually, all 13 dealerships will offer it.

The thinking is that nitrogen's larger molecules prevent it from seeping out of a tire as quickly as air. So inflating tires with nearly pure nitrogen - which has been done for years in race cars, commercial airliners and long-distance trucks - allows them to retain correct pressure longer.

Pressure is vital because a properly inflated tire is a safer, more efficient tire. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration says most drivers can improve gas mileage by nearly 3 percent by keeping their vehicle tires within the recommended pressure range. The government also estimates the nation loses more than 2 million gallons of gas every day due to underinflated tires.

Enter nitrogen. Chemical No. 7 on your periodic chart of the elements. At anywhere from $2 to $10 per tire.

Besides attracting customers and addressing safety concerns, it's a way to fight inflation. Or rather, the lack of it, said Jim Myers, Crown's chief operating officer.

"The whole theory is that air bleeds through the tire slowly," Myers said. "And if someone isn't diligent, any tire will lose air over time. But because of nitrogen's properties, that doesn't happen as quickly."

Myers said Crown will also offer to replace air with nitrogen on any vehicle for $39.

What happens if tire pressure drops and the driver is not near a garage or tire store that sells nitrogen?

Topping off with compressed air won't hurt, tire experts say, and the tire can be purged and refilled with nitrogen later.

So should motorists feel ... pressured to put nitrogen in their tires?

"It sounds like it has mostly positive points," said Randy Bly, director of community relations for AAA Auto Club South in Tampa. "Nitrogen helps keep tires cooler under open highway conditions, and it's less likely to leak out, so that would help with fuel mileage.

"The only negative would be the cost. But it may well be worth it."

Nitrogen-filled tires stay inflated about three times as long as than air-filled tires, advocates say, and while a typical tire inflated with compressed air might lose 2.7 pounds of pressure monthly, one filled with nitrogen loses 0.7 pound.

But Jim Davis, public relations manager for Goodyear Tire and Rubber, says replacing air with nitrogen is "a tough call."

"The objective is to have the correct air pressure," Davis said. "And over time, minute amounts of air do leak out.

"There is no harm to the tire from using regular air. But we urge people to check their tires monthly."

What happens, Davis said, is that decreased air pressure flattens a tire, creating more surface area between the tire and the road. That added friction can make the engine work harder and cause tires to overheat, possibly leading to a blowout.

"More tire surface means it takes more power to roll that tire," Davis said. "A correctly inflated tire is going to roll more easily."

Checking tires for correct pressure also has a side benefit.

"When you're down there, look at the tires," Davis said. "You may notice a nail or tread that is wearing abnormally, and you can catch it before the problem becomes worse."

At least one tire manufacturer is even more skeptical about the advantages of nitrogen in the family car.

Michelin officials recommend nitrogen only for tires used "in a high risk environment and/or when the user wants to reduce the consequences of a potential abnormal overheating of the tire-wheel assembly (for example in some aircraft applications)," according to a company statement.

But for all other tires in normal use, nitrogen "is not required and does not necessarily bring the expected benefit.

"It is true that the physical properties of nitrogen reduce the pressure loss due to the natural permeability of the materials of the tire and thus the broad use of nitrogen will in general assist motorists with pressure maintenance.

"Nevertheless, the existence of several other possible sources of leaks (tire/rim interface, valve, valve/rim interface and the wheel) prevents the guarantee of better pressure maintenance for individuals using nitrogen inflation."

So we can save the expense if we just check our tires regularly.

The trouble is, we don't.

As recently as two years ago, government and tire industry surveys showed close to 30 percent of cars, vans, pickups and SUVs on the road had at least one tire that was substantially underinflated, at least 8 psi below the recommended minimum pressure.

But high gas prices and consumer education may be cutting into that number. According to a survey by Uniroyal Tire in mid August, nearly 50 percent of Americans said they are now checking the air pressure in their tires once a month.

Still, that leaves millions of unchecked tires.

"Most people don't take care of their tires on a regular basis," said Dave Zielasko, editor and publisher of Tire Business , an Akron, Ohio, trade publication. "Tires are one of the most underappreciated part of the vehicle. People take them for granted. But the reality is they do need to be checked.

"Remember, it's the only part of the vehicle that touches the road."
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post #114 of 484 Old 07-24-2012, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteSands View Post
I proved that to myself starting 4 years ago with a new set of michelin energy saver tires on my '07 TCH. The tire with nitrogen, holding air up to a year is why the claim of improved mpg.
"So if your buddy notices his new nitrogen-filled tires are hardly losing pressure at all, ask him if they're the same brand as his old tires. There may also be a difference in leakage rates between brand new tires and tires that have racked up thousands of miles."

http://home.comcast.net/~prestondrake/N2_FAQ_Q04.htm
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post #115 of 484 Old 07-24-2012, 03:16 PM
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Checkout getnitrogen.org website, you can plug in your zip code and get listing of places you can get nitrogen in your tires. I just did mine and I have a Virginia Tire & Auto near my home will do it for a small fee. So I called and asked how much ? The guy said $20. I asked $20 per tire ? He said No in an annoying tone and said "$20 total, $5 per tire". At the risk of annoying him further, I asked if I had to make an appointment. He said no and to just come in.

I'll be heading there sometimes this week after work.

Also, I don't know this for sure but I think Costco may do this for free (fill your tires with nitrogen) if you're a member. Unfortunately my wife likes BJ's instead of Costco.





Last edited by Oz_TCH; 07-24-2012 at 03:18 PM.
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post #116 of 484 Old 07-24-2012, 03:58 PM
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I bought portable air compressor at Sears.
difference between pump and TPMS screen numbers only 1PSI.

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post #117 of 484 Old 07-24-2012, 04:25 PM
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Oz_TCH,

$20 seems reasonable to get rid of the water in your tire and get the benefit of Nitrogen.

I'd be curious to know how the Nitrogen service goes.

Ask how they remove all the Nitrogen/O2 air and moisture out of the tires and replace it with pure dry Nitrogen. Would like to know your impression of change in ride quality.

Please note your existing cold PSI, as it would not make sense to compare current ride to Nitrogen ride at different cold PSI.

Have you looked at how your current PSI changes on the morning commute to work between the time you leave and how PSI goes up while you're driving to work? Would be interesting to know how this compares after Nitrogen fill.

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post #118 of 484 Old 07-24-2012, 10:23 PM
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For a tire at a given pressure and temperature, the tire contains the same number of gas molecules regardless of what gas or mixture of gases it contains. For example, 22.4 liters of any gas at 0 degrees C and 1 atmosphere pressure (14.7 PSI) contains 6 followed by 23 zeroes, molecules. A corollary is that temperature changes cause the same pressure changes regardless of the gas or mixture of gases. It's the Ideal Gas Law.

Last edited by Curtis_TX; 07-24-2012 at 10:53 PM.
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post #119 of 484 Old 07-24-2012, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Curtis_TX View Post
A corollary is that temperature changes cause the same pressure changes regardless of the gas or mixture of gases. It's the Ideal Gas Law.
You are exactly correct. Pure nitrogen offers no advantage on pressure change with temperature.

However, 95% nitrogen (typical purity used for tires), does leak out slightly slower than air (78% nitrogen). Consumer reports verified it by testing over a year with a number of tires using nitrogen or air. But this advantage is trivial. If you adjust your tire pressure once a month, using nitrogen will save you all of 13 cents in a year due to improved fuel mileage from the lower leakage rate. Pretty tough to justify any expense to put nitrogen in with that rate of payback! See this thread where I explain my calculation of the saving.
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post #120 of 484 Old 07-25-2012, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron AKA View Post
You are exactly correct. Pure nitrogen offers no advantage on pressure change with temperature.

However, 95% nitrogen (typical purity used for tires), does leak out slightly slower than air (78% nitrogen).
Yep. So the tire acts a molecular sieve. The oxygen is more likely to leak out than the nitrogen. The concentration of nitrogen gradually increases.
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