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post #106 of 147 Old 06-06-2014, 09:08 PM
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Interesting tire, does not look like it comes in the Original Equipment Size:215/55-17

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post #107 of 147 Old 06-08-2014, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molson.david View Post
I have Primacy on one camry and Energy Savers on another and no matter what ppl say I'd stay behind my opinion; the Energy Savers are better tires than the Primacys. Both tires are quiet, but the Energy Saver offers notisably better better wet and dry grip and better snow/ice traction. Seems to me it also wears better.
Go for Energy Saver or Pirelli P7 plus Cinturato.
I see Michelin Energy A/S listed on Tirerack but not Energy "Saver". Did you mean to say you have Energy A/S tires on one of your Camries? TIA.
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post #108 of 147 Old 06-08-2014, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srivenkat View Post
I see Michelin Energy A/S listed on Tirerack but not Energy "Saver". Did you mean to say you have Energy A/S tires on one of your Camries? TIA.
Tirerack actually lists Energy MXV4 instead of Energy A/S. Sorry about the confusion.
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post #109 of 147 Old 06-08-2014, 01:14 PM
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I read up some on these new Premier A/S tires mentioned above. Looks like they will be a better tire than the Primacy MXV4's I have been using.

Michelin mentions this new tire has good traction even when the tread wears down due to some new method of tapered tread design. Something about improved stopping and traction due to the tread design and rubber compound used.

http://www.michelinman.com/tire-sele...FUOSfgod754Aeg

Interesting details..

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=182

Last edited by WhiteSands; 06-08-2014 at 01:24 PM.
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post #110 of 147 Old 06-08-2014, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molson.david View Post
I have Primacy on one camry and Energy Savers on another and no matter what ppl say I'd stay behind my opinion; the Energy Savers are better tires than the Primacys. Both tires are quiet, but the Energy Saver offers notisably better better wet and dry grip and better snow/ice traction. Seems to me it also wears better.
Go for Energy Saver or Pirelli P7 plus Cinturato.
I do see the Energy Savers now if I search by the tire size. But somehow they don't appear if I search by Vehicle. I see the Energy Savers are T-rated and that's probably the reason why.
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post #111 of 147 Old 06-10-2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by srivenkat View Post
I do see the Energy Savers now if I search by the tire size. But somehow they don't appear if I search by Vehicle. I see the Energy Savers are T-rated and that's probably the reason why.
"Savers A/S" listed under "passenger all season" as Energy Saver A/S.
I had a few T-rated tires and never had an issue with lower speed rating. my previous tires were T-rated Pirelli P4 and they had much better wet/ snow traction and longer life than V-rated H rated Primacy and V-rated Energy MXV4 s8.

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post #112 of 147 Old 06-10-2014, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molson.david View Post
"Savers A/S" listed under "passenger all season" as Energy Saver A/S.
I had a few T-rated tires and never had an issue with lower speed rating. my previous tires were T-rated Pirelli P4 and they had much better wet/ snow traction and longer life than V-rated H rated Primacy and V-rated Energy MXV4 s8.
I believe some places like Walmart and Samsclub will only install H-rated tires for H-rated vehicles.

Regarding the Energy Saver A/S, how much of a difference if any you may have noticed MPG-wise?

Also, how would you compare the Energy Savers with the Pirelli P7. Have you had any experience with the latter? I am considering the latter as they are available at Samsclub. TIA.
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post #113 of 147 Old 06-10-2014, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by srivenkat View Post
I believe some places like Walmart and Samsclub will only install H-rated tires for H-rated vehicles.
Many places will not replace your tires with other than the tire specs rated for by the manufacturer. Some will put on a 'better' rated tire. Some will not even allow that. It all comes back to liability and most of the major players (Discount Tire, Costco, etc.) don't want to go there at all.

Although not much of an issue, as a retired accident reconstructionist, I can say that having tires rated at less than the manufacturer recommends can create issues in major accidents. You have to remember that the point where attorneys get involved is the point where, on both sides of the coin, they are trying to push a percentage of 'fault' or 'responsibility'. If the tires on the vehicle have, for example, a lower speed rating than recommended (like a T rating versus a manufacturer recommended H or V) and speed is an issue in the crash, you can bet that it will come up. Handling capabilities are another that I saw come up.

We are not, of course, speaking of fender benders here. These are accidents where there is major injury/damage/death. By definition, an 'accident' is an unintended act that causes death, injury, and/or property damage. The very nature of 'unintended' is the reason why I just stick to the manufacturer recommendations. I sat many a day in court cases where a percentage of fault and or responsibility was assigned for what some would call minor modifications to vehicles. I consider changing a tire spec (many do it to save money, and I certainly understand) when replacing OE tires more than a minor mod as it can open up a 'can-of-worms' that could be avoided.

JMHO.
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post #114 of 147 Old 06-10-2014, 08:37 PM
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Replaced my Primacy's with Conti PureContact which is LRR. So far so good.
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post #115 of 147 Old 06-11-2014, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srivenkat View Post
I believe some places like Walmart and Samsclub will only install H-rated tires for H-rated vehicles.
yes, but you always can go to another place.

Quote:
Regarding the Energy Saver A/S, how much of a difference if any you may have noticed MPG-wise?
none. I never was trying to see if there is any difference though.

Quote:
Also, how would you compare the Energy Savers with the Pirelli P7. Have you had any experience with the latter? I am considering the latter as they are available at Samsclub. TIA.
I never had P7 on my car, so can't comment on it, but considering Tire rack survey and my previous experience with Pirelli, I'm planning to put P7's on my car as soon as my Primacy's will reach "wear" bars. Currently P7's are the highest rated tires in their category on TRack.com and Pirelli run $60 rebate on them.

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post #116 of 147 Old 06-11-2014, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Doobiewah View Post
Although not much of an issue, as a retired accident reconstructionist, I can say that having tires rated at less than the manufacturer recommends can create issues in major accidents. You have to remember that the point where attorneys get involved is the point where, on both sides of the coin, they are trying to push a percentage of 'fault' or 'responsibility'. If the tires on the vehicle have, for example, a lower speed rating than recommended (like a T rating versus a manufacturer recommended H or V) and speed is an issue in the crash, you can bet that it will come up. Handling capabilities are another that I saw come up.
so, even if accident occurred under the T-rated tires speed limit they still will try to "fault" you?
how about test results that prove that tires speed rating has very little to none to do with tire's traction under the posted speed limits and thread depth, rubber compound and road surface condition have much greater influence on the traction and braking distance vs tire speed rating?
in any case, LE and TCH LE comes with T-rated tires, so we can go with T and H rating.

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post #117 of 147 Old 06-11-2014, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molson.david View Post
I never had P7 on my car, so can't comment on it, but considering Tire rack survey and my previous experience with Pirelli, I'm planning to put P7's on my car as soon as my Primacy's will reach "wear" bars. Currently P7's are the highest rated tires in their category on TRack.com and Pirelli run $60 rebate on them.
Did you mean to refer to something else than P7 in the below post?

https://www.toyotanation.com/forum/10...ml#post5691169

Last edited by srivenkat; 06-11-2014 at 01:26 PM.
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post #118 of 147 Old 06-11-2014, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by srivenkat View Post
Did you mean to refer to something else than P7 in the below post?

https://www.toyotanation.com/forum/10...ml#post5691169
Also, at the Pirelli site, I see (at least) 3 different versions of P7:

Cinturato P7
Cinturato P7 All Season
Cinturato P7 All Season Plus

It's confusing. I wish they didn't do that.

Although for the 215/60 R16 size they show only the last.
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post #119 of 147 Old 06-11-2014, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertru View Post
Replaced my Primacy's with Conti PureContact which is LRR. So far so good.
Let us know how that turns out for you! I'm interested as I almost purchased this tire before my last set! I did read about tracking issues with them and did not purchase them as a result.

I for one, will not purchase the Michelin's again. Over rated, over priced, don't hold balance well, wear unevenly, did not track well and just as noisy as any other tire I have had on this car after 30-40,000 miles.

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post #120 of 147 Old 06-11-2014, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by molson.david View Post
so, even if accident occurred under the T-rated tires speed limit they still will try to "fault" you?
how about test results that prove that tires speed rating has very little to none to do with tire's traction under the posted speed limits and thread depth, rubber compound and road surface condition have much greater influence on the traction and braking distance vs tire speed rating?
in any case, LE and TCH LE comes with T-rated tires, so we can go with T and H rating.
The interesting issue is 'percentage fault', which both criminal attorneys and insurance companies use to their advantage. They are not interested in scientific fact as much as convincing a judge/jury/civil mediator that there should be a percentage of fault assigned to the other party due to 'whatever', which includes things like a car with OE 'H' rated tires that has only 'T' rated tires at the time of the accident (the old 'what if' argument). Their job is to get some assigned percentage of fault assigned to the other side. It can result in tens of thousands, sometimes millions, of dollars going one way or another. It can also be used to reduce a criminal sentence. I've seen insurance companies refuse to pay based on vehicle 'modifications' that were not reported to the insurance company.

One thing I certainly learned in my position and dealing with insurance companies and lawyers was that it was all just a big game...and after the game was over, they would pat you on the back, tell you they were impressed with your testimony, then buy you a beer, no matter how hard they tried to make you look like a fool earlier in the day. Kinda like politics, I guess...
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