GENERAL Camry Hybrid questions - Page 4 - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
Camry Hybrid Discussion area for the Toyota Camry Hybrid. Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving Americas favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.

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post #46 of 247 Old 12-22-2012, 07:03 AM
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over 70MPG:

A lot of folks get uppity when vehicles achieve more than stellar fuel numbers. I recall an episode of Scientific American with Alan Alda, where engineering students at Cal Tech constructed a vehicle with a carbon fiber body, capable of 100 MPG. The EPA quickly jumped in and asked them not to build this thing.
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post #47 of 247 Old 12-22-2012, 08:35 AM
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The EPA quickly jumped in and asked them not to build this thing.

I spent a few minutes googling for more info about the EPA's preventing or seeking to prevent anyone from building or developing any vehicle that gets improved gas mileage. I found nothing. To the contrary, EPA affirmative promotes improved gas mileage and holds manufacturers' feet to the fire if they fudge their figures or their methodology. If you have a reference to the EPA's suppressing or in any way stifling efforts to produce better gasoline mileage, I'd like to review it.
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post #48 of 247 Old 12-22-2012, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushleague View Post
A lot of folks get uppity when vehicles achieve more than stellar fuel numbers. I recall an episode of Scientific American with Alan Alda, where engineering students at Cal Tech constructed a vehicle with a carbon fiber body, capable of 100 MPG. The EPA quickly jumped in and asked them not to build this thing.
I can see that such a vehicle could easily come up short in crash protection - and that would be NHTSA, not EPA ground. With modern vehicles, easily 600# of weight is the direct result of structures and accessories needed to meet crash and occupant protection standards. And it's a compromise I'm content to make, given the seemingly infinite population of incompetent drivers....


Take an example from history - Citroen 2CV. Good aero, and with a modern engine, could easily exceed 100 MPG with much better than original performance. Of course, get into a wreck with pretty much any other vehicle, and you're dead...
The Smart and Toyota's own iQ are other examples of the weight gain - back in the more clueless times, when driver survival was less of a priority, vehicles in a comparable class were well under 1500# - which allowed decent fuel economy even with the primitive and wasteful engines of the time. Heck, the US icon of the 'economy car', the VW Beetle was hard-pressed to exceed 35 MPG, even when driven like a snail.
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post #49 of 247 Old 12-22-2012, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Frodo65 View Post
.
The Smart and Toyota's own iQ are other examples of the weight gain - back in the more clueless times, when driver survival was less of a priority, vehicles in a comparable class were well under 1500# - which allowed decent fuel economy even with the primitive and wasteful engines of the time. Heck, the US icon of the 'economy car', the VW Beetle was hard-pressed to exceed 35 MPG, even when driven like a snail.
I owned a '81 VW Diesel Rabbit that weighed only 1750 pounds. It was a subcompact, but seemed roomy enough on the inside and loved the 50 city 60 highway it gave me. I would have bought another but they went to the puff-fish look with the Golf. The diesel was nice till after 45K then it was nosier and you cold feel the engine vibration in the car. I replaced the engine mounts and that helped some. I sold it at 85K miles and bought a new Chevy Cavalier.
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post #50 of 247 Old 01-16-2013, 04:59 PM
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A local private garage has agreed to change the ATF fluid for a very nominal amount since it's a "drain and fill". Now my question is, should I still take a new funnel/extension or can I trust that the one they use at the garage wouldn't have some contaminants from pas use?

Also, ukrkoz, I see you also had a pennzoil pump handy, but opted for the funnel. Wouldn't a pump have been easier, since you could do it all while being underneath the car?

Thanks.
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post #51 of 247 Old 01-17-2013, 07:30 AM
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This job is so easy, I don't know why you would ever pay anyone to do it... If I were taking it anywhere, I would watch them like a hawk. I just did this job again a few weeks ago. If you have the car up on ramps, it is actually faster than doing an "oil change".

If you must... A new funnel is cheap insurance. Only a couple bucks.

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post #52 of 247 Old 01-17-2013, 01:10 PM
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It is just a fill plug. I did not use a torque wrench both times I changed the PSD oil. But, I never use one when I change the oil either. I just get them snug enough so I know that I can get them out next time without damaging the head of the bolt or the threads. Its not like you are torquing a head gasket or anything like that. I also used new crush washers both times... FWIW...

If your driveway has a little slope like mine, the car is damn near level when you put it on the ramps. Works great.

The only part of the job I would call critical is the order of removal on the plugs. Do it wrong and oil will "chug, chug" out all over the damn place.

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post #53 of 247 Old 01-17-2013, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srivenkat View Post
A local private garage has agreed to change the ATF fluid for a very nominal amount since it's a "drain and fill". Now my question is, should I still take a new funnel/extension or can I trust that the one they use at the garage wouldn't have some contaminants from pas use?

Also, ukrkoz, I see you also had a pennzoil pump handy, but opted for the funnel. Wouldn't a pump have been easier, since you could do it all while being underneath the car?

Thanks.

No, funnel is much easier. I keep that pump for REALLY hard to get to places. Like rear differential/transfer cases on our SUV and pick up. You can't get to damn filler lugs with a bottle, have to hand pump fluid.

I know only one mechanic I can trust - one that just typed this.



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post #54 of 247 Old 03-26-2013, 10:04 AM
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Ford Sued Over Fusion & C-Max Hybrid Mileage Claims

Found this NBC news article:

Ford Faces Lawsuit Alleging False Mileage Claims

Will be interesting to see if they end up in the same boat as Hyundai and Kia, and will have to pay purchasers to compensate for the shortfall.

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post #55 of 247 Old 03-26-2013, 10:19 AM
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Seems to be a trend with Ford. It's not just the hybrids either. Do a little searching on Ford's EcoBoost (commonly referred to as EcoBoast) and there are a lot of unhappy Ford customers when it comes to mileage. The 4-cylinder Fusion is getting in the low 20s mpg. Consumer Reports had an article about how Ford's competitors are getting much better mileage and performance out of their 6 cylinders than Ford is getting with their turbo 4s. The trucks are getting "V8 mileage with V6 performance" instead of vice versa as advertised.

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post #56 of 247 Old 03-26-2013, 05:08 PM
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bummer for Ford customers. We get more than the estimated mileage, on our TCH.

Dave - 2007 Sienna, 2012 Camry Hybrid
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post #57 of 247 Old 03-27-2013, 09:38 AM
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I almost bought a Fusion Hybrid. Glad I looked the other way.
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post #58 of 247 Old 03-27-2013, 10:32 AM
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A CMax expert on the Fusion forum indicated the temperature penalty below 65 degrees F is 2 MPG per 10 degrees. The speed penalty on MPG is 0.6 MPG per mile over 65 MPH. Expected behavior of the FFH and Cmax are similar.

So at normal temps just using the MPH penalty, the FFH gets 35 MPG at 75 MPH. That is based upon a starting point of the Consumer Reports tested mileage of 41 MPG on the highway. Exactly the reason I avoided this car since I do some long highway trips.

In contrast, my worst mileage in my 2012 TCH on the highway has been 35 MPG while cruising at 78 MPH and 30 degrees F. It appears the temperature and mileage penalties are far less with the TCH than the FFH, possibly half on both.

If this is true I will enjoy cruising at 75 MPH while still acheiving 40 MPG all Summer, 5 MPG better than my FFH-owning friends. While the 5 MPG may not sound like a lot, that's 12 below EPA for the FFH while 2 above EPA for the TCH. The takeaway is just that it supports my decision that the TCH was the better choice, based primarily on weak real-world highway MPG performance by the FFH.

Last edited by upatches; 03-27-2013 at 10:36 AM.
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post #59 of 247 Old 03-27-2013, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upatches View Post
A CMax expert on the Fusion forum indicated the temperature penalty below 65 degrees F is 2 MPG per 10 degrees.
That seems a bit much for a temperature hit. I would suggest that the biggest hit for temperature is during the warm up period, and how far you drive before the next warm up. That will grossly change mpg. However if you only consider highway driving after the engine is fully warmed up, I suspect the hit is quite minor. There will be more than enough waste heat from the engine to keep the passenger compartment warm. About the only way I see mileage being affected is the throttle position. With colder air the throttle has to close more for the same air intake. That effect especially with the Atkinson cycle which reduces intake manifold vacuum in any case, should be minor. It could still have a bit of reduction though. I plan a road trip soon and it should be about 40 deg. F cooler than the last time I made the trip. Will try to compare the mileage. However, I find wind is the biggest factor which changes highway mileage. If I don't get similar wind conditions, the difference will likely be left "blowing in the wind"!

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post #60 of 247 Old 03-28-2013, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gforinash View Post
Seems to be a trend with Ford. It's not just the hybrids either. Do a little searching on Ford's EcoBoost (commonly referred to as EcoBoast) and there are a lot of unhappy Ford customers when it comes to mileage. The 4-cylinder Fusion is getting in the low 20s mpg. Consumer Reports had an article about how Ford's competitors are getting much better mileage and performance out of their 6 cylinders than Ford is getting with their turbo 4s. The trucks are getting "V8 mileage with V6 performance" instead of vice versa as advertised.
Wow, 4 baggers turbo that markets as an fuel saver isn't get much better mpg than my 25 years old Turbo.
Boost it at every opportunity and still getting an average 18-19 mpg.
Heck, my 4300lb V6 Sienna average at 21-22 mpg.

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