Low Engine Oil Pressure - Quick Advice Needed - Page 2 - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
Camry Hybrid Discussion area for the Toyota Camry Hybrid. Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving Americas favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.

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post #16 of 272 Old 05-12-2013, 09:27 PM
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Oil

Yes, Oil is full and clean.
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post #17 of 272 Old 05-13-2013, 05:32 PM
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11000 miles in three years! Dude, that stuff is evaporating while it waits to be used.

We buy a car every nine years.
The problem is they don't quit working.
94 Camry, 03 Camry, 2012 Camry Hybrid - all in use.
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post #18 of 272 Old 05-13-2013, 10:03 PM
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fosman, not a good sign. Either your oil is very old and simply does not have right viscosity any more, or your oil pump starts going south.



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post #19 of 272 Old 05-13-2013, 11:34 PM
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It came on when the electric motor was on and went right out when I hit the gas and the gas motor came on. I think maybe the computer thought the gas motor was on.
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post #20 of 272 Old 05-14-2013, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fosman77 View Post
It came on when the electric motor was on and went right out when I hit the gas and the gas motor came on. I think maybe the computer thought the gas motor was on.
It may be a bad pressure sensor.
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post #21 of 272 Old 05-15-2013, 04:11 PM
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Personally I think the 0w-20 oil is too thin to provide the protection necessary for long term engine reliability, especially if you change it at 10k intervals.

Before I bought my new 2012 I actually bought (for one day) a 2010 that had about 36K on it and was immaculate. Took it home and the next morning when I started it up it sounded like a bucket of bolts - it had a very loud and definitive rattly knocking sound, like worn rod bearings or lifters, for a few sec until the oil pressure came up (it was a cold Jan morning). I didn't like the sound of that on a car with only 36K so I returned it. Service had been regular and on schedule - per their records. At that point I decided I wanted a new one, so I bought the 2012.

I just had my first oil change (at 4K) and asked the service tech about it. She said not to worry - they use Mobil 1 full synth, etc. Still, 0w-20 just seems to thin to me and I would prefer to run 5w-30, at least in the summer months. Yes I know what the manual says and I know Toyota recommends the lighter grade, but they don't necessarily have a vested interest in my engine lasting 200k like I do.


Last edited by JRB_NW; 05-15-2013 at 04:14 PM. Reason: typo
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post #22 of 272 Old 05-15-2013, 05:08 PM
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It is not your oil, even if you are using 0W20. The hope would be that it is a faulty pressure switch, or as you suggest the control system faulty and is looking for pressure when the ICE is not running.

2012 Camry XLE Hybrid
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post #23 of 272 Old 05-15-2013, 07:05 PM
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can someone explain to me how 0w-20 is different than 5w-20 at operating temperatures?
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post #24 of 272 Old 05-15-2013, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRB_NW View Post
Personally I think the 0w-20 oil is too thin to provide the protection necessary for long term engine reliability, especially if you change it at 10k intervals.

Before I bought my new 2012 I actually bought (for one day) a 2010 that had about 36K on it and was immaculate. Took it home and the next morning when I started it up it sounded like a bucket of bolts - it had a very loud and definitive rattly knocking sound, like worn rod bearings or lifters, for a few sec until the oil pressure came up (it was a cold Jan morning). I didn't like the sound of that on a car with only 36K so I returned it. Service had been regular and on schedule - per their records. At that point I decided I wanted a new one, so I bought the 2012.

I just had my first oil change (at 4K) and asked the service tech about it. She said not to worry - they use Mobil 1 full synth, etc. Still, 0w-20 just seems to thin to me and I would prefer to run 5w-30, at least in the summer months. Yes I know what the manual says and I know Toyota recommends the lighter grade, but they don't necessarily have a vested interest in my engine lasting 200k like I do.
The symptoms you describe are ones a too-high a viscosity oil will produce. When the dealer used his bulk 5W30 (per service invoice) on the 'free' first oil change, my '08 acted up with definite roughness on start/restart, and that's with relatively mild FL temps. The TCH engine control strategy requires very quick oil pressure rise - and higher viscosity oil will prevent that, especially when cold.
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post #25 of 272 Old 05-15-2013, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha_1976 View Post
can someone explain to me how 0w-20 is different than 5w-20 at operating temperatures?
http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

As of the rattle.... At start up..

It is surprisingly common issue.
In several years here and there, I have noticed quite a few of those posts. Cold start up rattle. Even experienced it once or twice.
Normally, what it is, is lack of oil pressure at the very start up. Either oil bled back into crankcase overnight, and lifters do not compensate right away as a result, or lifters are sort of sticky, and takes time to build up pressure and close gaps on lifters.
Personally, I found that cars, prone to cold rocker/lifter noise, do MUCH BETTER with thicker oil, like 10W30.
We have living example in the family. Son owns Infinity G35. It scared the crap out of them - twice - with a terrible cold start up rattle. After 2nd time it happened, I told him to run Seafoam through crankcase and switch to heavier oil.
That was it. Fixed for several months by now.



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post #26 of 272 Old 05-15-2013, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by alpha_1976 View Post
can someone explain to me how 0w-20 is different than 5w-20 at operating temperatures?
My understanding is that 0W20 oil is guaranteed to be synthetic whereas 5W20 may be either synthetic or dino oil. So I suppose the question becomes: What is the difference between synthetic oil and dino oil at operating temperatures.
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post #27 of 272 Old 05-15-2013, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by restamp View Post
My understanding is that 0W20 oil is guaranteed to be synthetic whereas 5W20 may be either synthetic or dino oil. So I suppose the question becomes: What is the difference between synthetic oil and dino oil at operating temperatures.
Guaranteed means no ability to create a 0w dino now. That can change any day, technology is advancing rapidly. They may not bother with a 0w dino. would appear synthetics will take over in a few years. Auto manufacturers are switching over with new designs. As more synthetics are sold, the volume will drive synthetic prices down. Another reason synthetics will be cheaper is the fact that most "full synthetic" oil sold today is really "hydrocracked" (synthesized) dino. not PAO, created in a lab like the 70's and 80's. was too expensive to produce. In parts of Europe you cannot label hydrocracked dino as a full synthetic. Only here. But thats ok, in many ways its a batter oil than PAO. Like seal compatibility, and detergency for 2 examples. Synthetics are all i will use now. Change the oil when i get around to it, somewhere around 10k. Always a clean quiet engine. Changing oil less often saves money in the long run. Need to use expensive high efficiency extended interval filters though.

At operating temperatures the main differences are volatility and stability over longer intervals. Synthetics can handle the extremes better.

02 Camry XLE 2AZ-FE 332k M1 HM 5w30
99 Avalon 95k PP 5w30
13 Malibu 16k PP 5w20

Last edited by leakyseals; 05-15-2013 at 10:28 PM.
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post #28 of 272 Old 05-15-2013, 10:45 PM
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The startup rattles people complain about here are related to Toyota's VVT-i system. The VVT-i system requires fast oil flow through small tiny veins independent from the rest of the engine. Thick oil is a problem, not a solution for a VVT-i startup rattle.

Ford has been using 5w20 for over a decade on all makes and models with engines that run hard all day and night including police interceptors, taxi cabs, and Lincoln town car limos. Thats long enough to flood the internet with complaints if there were an issue.

A heavier weight oil still has purpose in an older engine that has high mileage, worn down, burns some oil. Putting thick oil in a brand new modern engine for "extra protection" is perpetuating Myth. Years behind current oil knowledge and oil technology. Thin oil has equal to or better film strength with a higher viscosity index than thick oil thanks to modern additives. To a modern engine, thick oil is like running in a swimming pool. Its hard work. More friction. More heat.

Some think because thick oil "sounds" quieter its protecting better. Myth. A thicker oil insulates better and sounds good to the ears, but thick oil = less flow = less oil = less film = more friction = more wear. Thats always been true.

Years ago thicker oil was needed to compensate for the tolerances of poorly built engines. Years ago a thicker oil was needed to gain additional film between moving parts. Years ago smoking was good for you. not true anymore. Engines are better built, oil is better refined.

02 Camry XLE 2AZ-FE 332k M1 HM 5w30
99 Avalon 95k PP 5w30
13 Malibu 16k PP 5w20

Last edited by leakyseals; 05-15-2013 at 10:59 PM.
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post #29 of 272 Old 05-16-2013, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by restamp View Post
What is the difference between synthetic oil and dino oil at operating temperatures.
If it is the same viscosity (like a 20) then it is the same at operating temperature. Same as 0W20 and 5W20. They are the same viscosity at operating temperature.

Both are too thick during warm up, but the 0W is closer to being the right viscosity during warm up. The 0W will get up to the valve train faster during warm up, and is the reason it is preferred. The perfect oil would have the same viscosity at -40 deg as at operating temperature, but that oil does not exist!

Virtually all "synthetic" oil is dino oil. It is just processed more to meet synthetic specifications.

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post #30 of 272 Old 05-16-2013, 06:35 AM
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Page 475 of the XLE-TCH manual talks about which oil to use. Toyota seems rather strict to stay with the 0W-20 synthetic oil.

This below is from the owners manual:

SAW 0W-20 is the best choice for good fuel economy and good starting in cold weather.

If SAW 0W-20 is not available, SAW 5W-20 oil may be used.
However, it must be replaced with SAE 0W-20 at the next oil change.


My thoughts are the engine is designed to use the 0W-20 full synthetic oil. The thin oil takes less energy for the oil pump to pump it up into the engine. It's important the valve train gets oil as quick as possible at the first engine start-up for the day. The oil pump is 3-speed and may not pump as correctly if 0W-20 oil is not used.

I have read in the past that the 0W oil has a higher film strength than the 5W oil. I'm not sure if the 5W they were comparing too was synthetic or more likely dino oil.

Mobil says using their 0W-20 advanced fuel economy oil you may achieve 2% better gas mileage.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/..._Economy.aspx#

I have driven the '07 TCH using this same viscosity oil in 107 degrees in the desert and down to zero during the coldest winter. I have only owned the '12 TCH for a year now and have not seen weather like when I drove the '07.

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