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Camry Hybrid Discussion area for the Toyota Camry Hybrid. Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance all involving Americas favorite family car, the Toyota Camry.

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post #61 of 272 Old 09-14-2013, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jazmondo View Post
if any one knows the fix i would highly appreciate it.
What is the year and mileage of your vehicle?

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post #62 of 272 Old 09-14-2013, 02:51 PM
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It also sounds like it could be piston slap where there is excessive piston skirt to bore clearance that closes up after the engine warms enough for the cylinder to expand. If that is what it is, it isn't serious.
Edit: Forget what I wrote since you said it was just a for a few seconds.

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post #63 of 272 Old 09-14-2013, 03:17 PM
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Thanks again guys! pretty nice info.
its a 2009 with 101000 miles on it and it started happening before i did any work on it.
I have tried everything there is to try but i thought the oil had to do smth with it coz it operates in hot temps here and its 0-20 i know its another wild guess.
but i like what you said ukrkoz u think it might be carbon deposit so it gives a misfire right when it starts and i forgot to say it doesnt happen every time but it happens alot that i noticed it.
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post #64 of 272 Old 09-14-2013, 03:23 PM
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it sounds exactly like this then it just goes away.

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post #65 of 272 Old 09-14-2013, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazmondo View Post
it sounds exactly like this then it just goes away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRY7eHgOJTc
Ouch! I don't like the sound of that. If you watch the engine when it is making the noise, is it shaking a lot? I wonder if there could be a loose engine mount, and something is clunking together due to the mount being loose?

Other than that, it would seem the engine is not getting oil right away. Perhaps you should get an opinion from the Toyota service department.

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post #66 of 272 Old 09-14-2013, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazmondo View Post
it sounds exactly like this then it just goes away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRY7eHgOJTc

How fat is the guy who shot that video, to lose breath from getting out of the seat and taking 4 steps?

Anyhow. Buddy, it's exactly what I said. Sticky lifters. Makes terrible noise.
I start not liking engine oil you used in Jordan.
Also, keep in mind. You MUST gun that car ever so often. If you barely move around, chasing good mpg, you WILL have carbon build up all over engine and exhaust. Carbon must be BURNT OUT RUTHLESSLY. your cat will be next.

2 cans of seafoam, 1 in, drive for 200 miles, drain, replace oil(just use any cheap oil in your weight, and do not use 0W20), 2nd can in, drive for about 500 miles, replace oil with decent 5W20.
Btw, Jordan is a hot country. If you want to build up good pressure, go for heavier weight oil. Go for 10W30 synthetic.
Also, you can go for broke, remove camshaft and "squeeze" lifters. After you soaked them overnight in good deposit cleaner, like kerosine.



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post #67 of 272 Old 09-14-2013, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazmondo View Post
its a 2009 with 101000 miles on it and it started happening before i did any work on it.
It appears Toyota has a Technical Service Bulletin for this specific issue. The version I have a link to does not specifically mention the 2009 Camry Hybrid, but it sure sounds like the same problem. See this link:

T-SB-0146-10 Brief Engine Knock/Rattle Noise at Cold Startup

The issue I see is that if you have the standard 5 year, 60,000 mile warranty, you are well over the mileage for it being covered under warranty. However, a starting point may be complaining to Toyota to see if that gets you anything. The fix is replacing the timing gear assembly, and that is not likely to be cheap. The only good news is that the hybrid engine only has VVT on the inlet side only, so there is only one timing gear assembly to be replaced instead of two.

You are wasting your time, and potentially ruining your engine by putting snake oil in the crankcase, or in the gasoline. And Seafoam is not really just snake oil, it is a mixture of 45% light oil, 30% Naptha (camp stove fuel), 15% isopropyl alcohol (drugstore rubbing alchohol). See the Seafoam MSDS. No car I own would ever have that stuff put in the crankcase or gasoline. It was a concoction dreamed up in the 1940's to put in two cycle outboard motor engines. Probably did little harm to them as you run oil in the gasoline anyway. But also likely did little good either.

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Last edited by Ron AKA; 09-14-2013 at 09:18 PM.
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post #68 of 272 Old 09-14-2013, 10:42 PM
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WHOA, everybody, hold up a minute! Let's don't tear the engine apart just yet.

1. Carbon deposits do not go away a few seconds after starting. They get worse with temp because things expand. Also, when carbon gets in the combustion chamber, it compacts to a hard nugget, getting worse until removed. I have seen where a head had to be pulled to fix the issue. Not likely the cause here.
2. The TSB addressing the VVT gear noise lasts about 1 second maybe, is a quick rattle and does not affect the way the car runs when started. Probably not the issue here.
3. Jazmondo stated (if I understand correctly) that it intermittently sets a misfire code. Toyotas misfire monitor is notorious for not always identifying a misfire, so that fits.
4. The TCH has a type of insulating clutch between the trans and ICE, somewhat like a rubber insulated clutch plate. It doesn't engage or disengage, it just absorbs vibrations. If a TCH runs out of gas at idle or the like, it will make the noise recorded on the video every time because of the excessive misfiring causes a great deal of vibration.
5. I think what is happening here is there is a severe misfire causing the "clutch disc" to make the noise until the engine smooths out. This tells me the problem is likely that the fuel pump one-way valve is failing and causing the fuel to drain back to the tank. There is just enough fuel to barely get going, but it has to bleed out and pressurize the system before it smooths out. That's why it smooths out and the noise goes away at the same time.
6. If it were an oil problem, the engine would run smoothly, but make a hard knocking noise similar, but different, to what you hear in the video.

I would recomment having your fuel pressure checked at rest and first time start up.

Good luck!
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post #69 of 272 Old 09-14-2013, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protech View Post
3. Jazmondo stated (if I understand correctly) that it intermittently sets a misfire code. Toyotas misfire monitor is notorious for not always identifying a misfire, so that fits.
4. The TCH has a type of insulating clutch between the trans and ICE, somewhat like a rubber insulated clutch plate. It doesn't engage or disengage, it just absorbs vibrations. If a TCH runs out of gas at idle or the like, it will make the noise recorded on the video every time because of the excessive misfiring causes a great deal of vibration.
5. I think what is happening here is there is a severe misfire causing the "clutch disc" to make the noise until the engine smooths out. This tells me the problem is likely that the fuel pump one-way valve is failing and causing the fuel to drain back to the tank. There is just enough fuel to barely get going, but it has to bleed out and pressurize the system before it smooths out. That's why it smooths out and the noise goes away at the same time.
Good thought. I did not read that the OP said any codes were set. Plugs were replaced so misfire due to ignition would seem unlikely. Fuel, could be. Probably best to put pressure gauge on fuel manifold, and then monitor it when shutdown to see if pressure leaks down. Then watch it and see what it does on start up. Not sure about the TCH, but most vehicles have the electric pump start well before you start the engine. On the TCH there is always a time delay before the ICE starts, so there is lots of time for pressure to build up. The pressure gauge would tell the story.

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post #70 of 272 Old 09-15-2013, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazmondo View Post
Hi guys im kind of a car noob so i would appreciate the help i currently live in jordan middle east and every time i turn my car on it starts knocking for a few seconds then all is good again and some rough idling like the engine is working too hard i recently changed my spark plugs cleaned my injectors and replaced my air filter and oil (0-20).

If any one knows the fix i would highly appreciate it.
I had this exact same knocking in the provided video. It would happen occasionally when I would first start up the '07 TCH for the day. It would do it maybe once per month or ever other month and would last for about half a minute. Even with it idling roughly and me backing up in the turnaround area the engine would barely run, then would run normal still at idle. Mine sounded like the engine was super lean or not enough oil pressure for the hydraulic lifters to work properly. My car never had many miles and traded it in at 37500 miles. So my car didn't have high miles so that must not have been the problem.

Like most others here in the forms, I ignored it as the car ran fine once the engine vibration was gone. I'm sure Toyota knew of the problem and so far my new '12 TCH with 11,000 miles on it has never had this same problem.

This problem by be the very reason that toyota put a 3 speed mechanical oil pump starting with the new '12 TCH. It may pump at a higher pressure when at idle, 950 rpm.

I do use 0W-20 oil which is recommended by Toyota for the '07 on up TCH, including the toyota oil filter from the dealer. I think the reason is the 0W gets up into the valvetrain area faster.

I have no idea if a 5W-20 oil would help the problem over the 0W-20 or not.

I your problem happens occasionally for less than a minute at first star-up, I never had my 2007 TCH looked at since it was happening only at first idle.
,

Last edited by WhiteSands; 09-15-2013 at 01:22 PM.
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post #71 of 272 Old 09-15-2013, 01:09 AM
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For the record, the 2009 Camry has a 2AZ based engine, which does NOT have hydraulic lifters. Starting in 2012, the TCH is equipped with a 2AR based engine, which does. That may be the reason behind a different oil pump, but I am not sure until I check further.
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post #72 of 272 Old 09-15-2013, 07:14 AM
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wow some wonderful input.
well tell me if im doing something wrong here first off im gonna revert fuel from 95 to 90 and change oil to 5-20 or should it be higher and lastly im gonna hav my combustion chamber cleaned professionally and take out that nasty carbon deposit out of the engine.
any other suggestions.
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post #73 of 272 Old 09-15-2013, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
How fat is the guy who shot that video, to lose breath from getting out of the seat and taking 4 steps?

Anyhow. Buddy, it's exactly what I said. Sticky lifters. Makes terrible noise.
I start not liking engine oil you used in Jordan.
Also, keep in mind. You MUST gun that car ever so often. If you barely move around, chasing good mpg, you WILL have carbon build up all over engine and exhaust. Carbon must be BURNT OUT RUTHLESSLY. your cat will be next.

2 cans of seafoam, 1 in, drive for 200 miles, drain, replace oil(just use any cheap oil in your weight, and do not use 0W20), 2nd can in, drive for about 500 miles, replace oil with decent 5W20.
Btw, Jordan is a hot country. If you want to build up good pressure, go for heavier weight oil. Go for 10W30 synthetic.
Also, you can go for broke, remove camshaft and "squeeze" lifters. After you soaked them overnight in good deposit cleaner, like kerosine.
hahah lol.
concerning oil i have been told that 0-30 or 5-30 would be good for my engine what do u think?
and we dont have seafoam in this part of the world lol
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post #74 of 272 Old 09-15-2013, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron AKA View Post
It appears Toyota has a Technical Service Bulletin for this specific issue. The version I have a link to does not specifically mention the 2009 Camry Hybrid, but it sure sounds like the same problem. See this link:

T-SB-0146-10 Brief Engine Knock/Rattle Noise at Cold Startup

The issue I see is that if you have the standard 5 year, 60,000 mile warranty, you are well over the mileage for it being covered under warranty. However, a starting point may be complaining to Toyota to see if that gets you anything. The fix is replacing the timing gear assembly, and that is not likely to be cheap. The only good news is that the hybrid engine only has VVT on the inlet side only, so there is only one timing gear assembly to be replaced instead of two.

You are wasting your time, and potentially ruining your engine by putting snake oil in the crankcase, or in the gasoline. And Seafoam is not really just snake oil, it is a mixture of 45% light oil, 30% Naptha (camp stove fuel), 15% isopropyl alcohol (drugstore rubbing alchohol). See the Seafoam MSDS. No car I own would ever have that stuff put in the crankcase or gasoline. It was a concoction dreamed up in the 1940's to put in two cycle outboard motor engines. Probably did little harm to them as you run oil in the gasoline anyway. But also likely did little good either.
timing gear assembly thats sounds pretty expensive fix could it really be he reason and how can i make sure.
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post #75 of 272 Old 09-15-2013, 07:20 AM
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i really appreciate the effort guys. i couldnt find any helpful people but good bless u all. awaiting your replies.
thanks again.
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