1mzfe vs. 3mzfe, which one is a better swap? - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
Camry & Solara Lounge Discussion area for every generation of Toyota's family car, the Toyota Camry. Lexus ES250/300 owners welcome! Topics of discussion range from fuel economy, safety, modifications, performance and more.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 19 Old 11-29-2008, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
New TN User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
1mzfe vs. 3mzfe, which one is a better swap?

I'm planning to drop a V6 into my 1988 Corolla GTS and I'm doing research into which one would be the best candidate.

I've eliminated the 3vzfe because of weight and age.

The 1mzfe would be a great choice for many reasons:
1. I have one in the garage, in my wife's car.
2. Older technology is less expensive.
3. It was available from the factory mated to a 5 speed.
4. Good power and economy.
5. Should fit under the hood (I still have to verify this).
6. I have all of the technical manuals for it already.
7. Standard throttle cable.
8. Can be supercharged (I even have the supercharger).

Some potential problems with it are:
1. They are getting old now and I would be swapping one old motor for another.
2. Possible sludge issues (do the new ones have this too?)
3. Power, while good, could be better.

The 3mzfe has one huge advantage in my opinion.
1. I could get one in a wrecked car that has less than say 50K miles on the odometer.
2. Also, more displacement means more horsepower and torque.

The disadvantage is:
1. I don't really know this engine. Is it basically the same size as the 1mzfe? I think the two are very similar, aren't they? I would need to verify that it would fit under my hood.
2. I've heard that the throttle-by-wire is calibrated for economy and not performance. I don't think I would care as long as it was still fast enough. I would need to know to what degree, this thing is scaled back.
3. Also, I would need to know if there were other things about the engine that I would need. For instance, to use the stock ECU on the 1mzfe (and the OBDII setup), I would need the charcoal canister. Does the 3mzfe have more extra components like that?

So that's a lot to digest, but it really comes down to the basic question of which engine is the right choice. I have a higher level of confidence swapping a 1mzfe from a Solara for instance, but it's hard to resist the calling of a newer engine. If I can't find a 1mzfe with a 5 speed, I would have figure out how mate one up anyway, so what's the difference in doing that with a 3.0 liter or a 3.3 liter (I already know that the E153 transmission will bolt up to both engines).

Let's hear your opinion on this.

Thanks for hanging in there on such a long winded question.
Prof ozone is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 Old 11-29-2008, 11:38 PM
Still confused...
 
95WhiteCamry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Calabasas, CA
Posts: 2,304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
iTrader Score: 7 reviews
so you're trying to swap in a bulky v6 into a tiny corolla engine bay? have you checked out dimensions to verify fitment? not to even mention that you'd need to custom fabricate the engine mounts, and the mounting points in the corolla are probably WAY different.

pardon my bluntness, but i think you're wasting time.

"live in the moment, forget the past and ignore the future"
Quote:
Originally Posted by white3ch0c0late
Yes, Alex is the resident woman-problems guy here at TN... take his advice...
'95 i4 camry sedan -> wrecked june of 2006 by a girl who couldn't drive
'95 v6 camry coupe (dropped, rimmed, front end converted, tinted and debadged) -> current
95WhiteCamry is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to 95WhiteCamry For This Useful Post:
AlmightyCamry777 (07-29-2011)
post #3 of 19 Old 11-29-2008, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
New TN User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
On the contrary.

The 4agze engine that is in the Corolla now is an iron block engine, while the 1mzfe is all alloy. There is a chance the car might actually loose weight. Fully dressed the engine and transmission in my car weighs 462 lbs. I don't know how much the 1mzfe weighs. I found a reference online that mentioned 400 lbs, but I don't know if that included the transmission or not. If so it probably doesn't weigh more than about 110 lbs, which would mean a weight gain of only about 50 lbs. I think that is a worthwhile trade for 10 or 20 extra horsepower and like 60 ft-lbs or torque, not to mention the improved gas mileage.

Also, the 1mzfe swap is very popular right now with first generation MR2 owners. The MR2 has the same engine my car came with (a 4age) and it is a much smaller car. So right now, I'm basing my assumption that the engine will fit in the engine compartment based on that. But verifying that is easy enough. All I have to do is walk into the garage with a tape measure and start measuring my wife's engine and my engine bay. I'm planning just such an activity for tomorrow, after stringing Christmas lights.

As I mentioned, my wife's 5 speed Solara has more power, more torque and gets better gas mileage than my supercharged 4 cylinder. So it only stands to reason that dropping it into a car that weighs 500 lbs less, would only help that situation.

Plus I would get an engine that was actually sold in the US vs the JDM engine I have now and can't get parts for. The swap would be legal if Florida adopts California laws (like our governor wants to do), while the current 4agze engine would not be legal.

Finally, if I needed to replace the engine I can get a much newer engine. My current engine went out of production in about 1991. The 1mzfe was in production, I think until 2003 or so.

You are completely right about having to fabricate motor mounts. I don't have a problem with that, otherwise I never would have considered this.

Not such a waste of time anymore. . . do you think?
Prof ozone is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 19 Old 11-30-2008, 12:31 AM Thread Starter
New TN User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
Just found it on the Celica website. The 1mzfe weighs 346 lbs and the 3mzfe weighs 352 lbs wet. I assume this does not include the transmission, so I'll add a reasonable 110 lbs for that to get 456 lbs and 462 lbs respectively. So even if this weight doesn't include things like A/C compressor and alternator and such, I'm clearly not gaining that much weight, assuming it fits under the hood.
Prof ozone is offline  
post #5 of 19 Old 11-30-2008, 12:44 AM
Senior TN Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Arlington, Texas
Posts: 1,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
correct me if I'm wrong but don't MR2s come in midengine? I'm sure there would be alot of modifications the would need to be done to fit the engine in there. Don't forget the radiator and stuffs like that.
aznstylez is offline  
post #6 of 19 Old 11-30-2008, 06:37 AM Thread Starter
New TN User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
All MR2's are indeed mid engine. Look up V6 MR2 in google and you will see what needs to be done to get the engine in. It's not nearly as extensive as you would think.

Plus, I'm not doing the swap in an MR2, I'm doing it in the LARGER Corolla engine compartment.
Prof ozone is offline  
post #7 of 19 Old 12-16-2008, 02:59 PM
VVT-1MZ + ES5spd
 
Bdub215's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Posts: 2,017
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Thanks: 16
Thanked 73 Times in 66 Posts
iTrader Score: 2 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof ozone View Post
I'm planning to drop a V6 into my 1988 Corolla GTS and I'm doing research into which one would be the best candidate.

I've eliminated the 3vzfe because of weight and age.

The 1mzfe would be a great choice for many reasons:
1. I have one in the garage, in my wife's car.
2. Older technology is less expensive.
3. It was available from the factory mated to a 5 speed.
4. Good power and economy.
5. Should fit under the hood (I still have to verify this).
6. I have all of the technical manuals for it already.
7. Standard throttle cable.
8. Can be supercharged (I even have the supercharger).

Some potential problems with it are:
1. They are getting old now and I would be swapping one old motor for another.
2. Possible sludge issues (do the new ones have this too?)
3. Power, while good, could be better.

The 3mzfe has one huge advantage in my opinion.
1. I could get one in a wrecked car that has less than say 50K miles on the odometer.
2. Also, more displacement means more horsepower and torque.

The disadvantage is:
1. I don't really know this engine. Is it basically the same size as the 1mzfe? I think the two are very similar, aren't they? I would need to verify that it would fit under my hood.
2. I've heard that the throttle-by-wire is calibrated for economy and not performance. I don't think I would care as long as it was still fast enough. I would need to know to what degree, this thing is scaled back.
3. Also, I would need to know if there were other things about the engine that I would need. For instance, to use the stock ECU on the 1mzfe (and the OBDII setup), I would need the charcoal canister. Does the 3mzfe have more extra components like that?

So that's a lot to digest, but it really comes down to the basic question of which engine is the right choice. I have a higher level of confidence swapping a 1mzfe from a Solara for instance, but it's hard to resist the calling of a newer engine. If I can't find a 1mzfe with a 5 speed, I would have figure out how mate one up anyway, so what's the difference in doing that with a 3.0 liter or a 3.3 liter (I already know that the E153 transmission will bolt up to both engines).

Let's hear your opinion on this.

Thanks for hanging in there on such a long winded question.
the 3vz was mated to a factory 5speed as well (E53) and despite its weight it is a better platform then the 1mz. back to the subject though make a hybrid from the 1/3mz out of a 3mz block and 1mz heads. you get extra displacement and power.

93 Lexus ES300 5spd I/E URFSB URRSB

01 Toyota Avalon TFSB, Weapon-R, Whiteline, Fogs
Bdub215 is offline  
post #8 of 19 Old 12-17-2010, 09:52 AM
Official TN Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Palmdale, CA
Posts: 595
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Thanks: 1
Thanked 44 Times in 40 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
thats a very interesting idea, but is it possible. These are not hondas, and while you can get away with putting a 3S-GTE head on a 5S-FE block (with mods) a 2ZZ-GE head will not go on a 1ZZ-FE. will the 1MZ head easily mate to the 3MZ block? if so i might have found the engine im looking for.
Smaay is offline  
post #9 of 19 Old 07-21-2011, 05:21 PM
Boost n' Juice Maniac
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Saco,me
Posts: 600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
iTrader Score: 9 reviews
I have custom MP90 and M112 Superchargers Kits for the 1mz-fe and 3mz-fe intercooled and non intercooled versions capable of up to 600whp. Contact me for more info guys.

1999 Solara v6 auto 13.0 @113mph s/c'd 9.5psi and nitrous
2000 Camry v6 5 speed 13.5 at 107.3mph s/c'd at 7psi
1997 Camry i4 auto to v6 auto swap! Built 3.3 3mz/1mz hybrid
trd4life is offline  
post #10 of 19 Old 07-23-2011, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
New TN User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
Swap is currently under way. I have the TRD supercharger. It can all be seen at www.ozone2000.com.
Prof ozone is offline  
post #11 of 19 Old 07-25-2011, 11:34 AM
Boost n' Juice Maniac
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Saco,me
Posts: 600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
iTrader Score: 9 reviews
3mz block with 1mz heads?

1999 Solara v6 auto 13.0 @113mph s/c'd 9.5psi and nitrous
2000 Camry v6 5 speed 13.5 at 107.3mph s/c'd at 7psi
1997 Camry i4 auto to v6 auto swap! Built 3.3 3mz/1mz hybrid
trd4life is offline  
post #12 of 19 Old 07-29-2011, 03:59 PM
Official TN Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: california
Posts: 542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Thanks: 61
Thanked 48 Times in 40 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
i have to concur with 95whitecamry on this one. Swapping in an engine that was never intended to fit the car, is going to turn into an expensive nightmare. since you've already started, i'm interested to know how this turns out, good luck with it, i sincerely hope you make it work!
AlmightyCamry777 is offline  
post #13 of 19 Old 07-29-2011, 04:15 PM
Senior TN Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ramah, NM
Posts: 1,943
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Thanks: 209
Thanked 274 Times in 245 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
I gotta watch this... It isn't as crazy as my planned swap for a 3S-GTE into my AWD Camry...

Besides, folks, I've seen people put a GM 350ci V8 into a Suzuki Samurai, a vehicle that ships with a 1.3l (less than 90ci!) engine. Very neat. Admittedly, that also involved Dana 44 axles front and rear... But they did it. Was awesome.

I'm subscribing to this if I can figure out how.

'88 Camry All-Trac DLX
'92 Geo Tracker
'98 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9 Limited
'88 All-Trac is offline  
post #14 of 19 Old 01-25-2012, 06:34 AM
it lives..and spins wheel
 
ProjectAvalon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Detroit
Posts: 613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Thanks: 23
Thanked 57 Times in 56 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
supposedly the only difference between the 1mz block and 3mz blk is just the bore. and since there is no readily availiable tuners for the vvti engines. people chasing power numbers are using the non vvti heads(early 1mz')

the "best" bolt together hybrid is. 3mz shortblock, with 1mz heads(containing 2mz intake cams and 3mz exhaust cams)(slightly more lift i think for exhaust and duration, and the intake gains duration)
ProjectAvalon is offline  
post #15 of 19 Old 01-25-2012, 06:36 AM
it lives..and spins wheel
 
ProjectAvalon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Detroit
Posts: 613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Thanks: 23
Thanked 57 Times in 56 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
OH YEAH!! use Mr-S shimless buckets and 3s-gte valve springs and you have heads that can mechanically spin to at least 7500rpm
ProjectAvalon is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums > Toyota Passenger and Sports Car Forums > Camry and Solara Forum > Camry & Solara Lounge

Bookmarks

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome