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post #16 of 29 Old 04-19-2008, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by hevster1 View Post
Toyota lost its focus years ago when the company founder died. He was a mechanic and insisted upon honoring the mechanics down to the dealership level. This gave them pride in what they do. They also took any suggestions very seriously and often put them into production. Their cars were the best in quality by far. Since his demise the focus has changed to sales.
Who is this "company founder" that died that you are referring to? My understanding is the company founder, Kiichiro Toyoda, died of a stroke in 1952 and then the company was run by Taizo Ishida (a non-mechanic who died in 1979) and Kiichiro's cousin, Eiji Toyoda, who held the positions of Vice President, President and Chairman of the Board through 1994. Kiichiro's son's, Shoichiro and Tatsuro, also held top management positions in the 80's and 1990's. Eiji, Shoichiro and Tatsuro Toyoda are still alive, though now are essentially retired and hold only "honorary" positions.

So I can't think of any "company founder - mechanic" who has died. However, it is true that the substantial decline in quality that began in the mid-1990's coincides with the time when Eiji, Shoichiro and Tatsuro Toyoda played less active roles in running the company. Also coincides with the time the Clinton administration FORCED (via threats of huge import tariffs) the Japanese automakers to begin sourcing a much higher percentage of their parts from American suppliers. And also coincides with the time when the Japanese Yen rose to a level that made it increasingly difficult for the Japanese automakers to maintain profitability of the cars it sold in America.
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post #17 of 29 Old 05-07-2008, 02:36 PM
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I have a 2007 Toyota Camry. In the last 1year I have replaced the battery, air bags, steering rod, part of the engine crade and left read door trim and handle. I have lots of rattle from the dash and clicking/crunching noise from the rear shocks. My AC stinks like mold. I have been to the dealer atleast 20 times.

I bought a toyota for reliability.....TOYOTA failed!!! I see no reliability!!!

This is my first toyota but I all I have to say is from my experience, my honda and chevy fared my better.

This will be my last toyota
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post #18 of 29 Old 05-07-2008, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by stdrxw12 View Post
I have a 2007 Toyota Camry. In the last 1year I have replaced the battery, air bags, steering rod, part of the engine crade and left read door trim and handle. I have lots of rattle from the dash and clicking/crunching noise from the rear shocks. My AC stinks like mold. I have been to the dealer atleast 20 times.

I bought a toyota for reliability.....TOYOTA failed!!! I see no reliability!!!

This is my first toyota but I all I have to say is from my experience, my honda and chevy fared my better.

This will be my last toyota
...... and my transmission had to be reprogrammed two times due to bad shifting. Transmission had low fluid. Dealer blamed the factory for not filling enough!!.... Funny how the toyota dealership has the words "Thats normal" and "Thats is a factory issue" memorized!
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post #19 of 29 Old 05-07-2008, 03:06 PM
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Toyota's are famous for long term reliability and durability. Short term reliability (first year of ownership) is no better than American cars and may even be worse if you buy a Toyota during it's first year of an all new model design. The 2007 Camry was an all new design. The reliability of the older design 2006 Camry was stellar. The reliability of the 2008 and 2009 Camry's has been much improved. So the 2007 Camry was a bump in the road in Camry history, but not a big enough bump to knock it off course from being the best selling car in America.
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post #20 of 29 Old 05-07-2008, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by verlaryder View Post
Toyota's are famous for long term reliability and durability. Short term reliability (first year of ownership) is no better than American cars and may even be worse if you buy a Toyota during it's first year of an all new model design. The 2007 Camry was an all new design. The reliability of the older design 2006 Camry was stellar. The reliability of the 2008 and 2009 Camry's has been much improved. So the 2007 Camry was a bump in the road in Camry history, but not a big enough bump to knock it off course from being the best selling car in America.
This is probably true.... but I don't have a spare $25,000 lying around to give toyota a second chance to see if they will give me better car next time. I probably spent $500 more in gas just driving back and forth to the dealership which is 1hr away and they keep the car running for the next 2hrs diagnosing and fixing issues and then 1hr drive back. Then more money spent taking off from work just to go sit at the dealship for hours. I thought I would spend the money and get a new car for the 'new car experience' with no issues..... but I was wrong to get the camry.
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post #21 of 29 Old 05-14-2008, 02:35 PM
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STDRXW12,
is your car still under warranty?Toyota is excellent at providing a loaner,or free rental if your trips are all due to manufacturers issues.We here at Toyota West have a loaner fleet ,just for that.And rest assured your gas tank would be filled with gas paid for by Toyota.
Dave

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1-800-459-4418 ext 3
[email protected]
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post #22 of 29 Old 05-15-2008, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Madhun View Post
STDRXW12,
is your car still under warranty?Toyota is excellent at providing a loaner,or free rental if your trips are all due to manufacturers issues.We here at Toyota West have a loaner fleet ,just for that.And rest assured your gas tank would be filled with gas paid for by Toyota.
Dave
Madhun,

Yes my car is still under warranty. But your dealership sounds like heaven compared the dealerships in Texas. (Fred Haas Toyota and Gullo Toyota)

They usually make me come at 8am in the morning and sit till 3pm or whenever the car is ready. They say I will only get a rental if the car is kept overnight!..... which they offcouse wont do and ask me to bring the car again.

Are you saying that after my 1.5hr one-way drive to Fred Haas toyota, they will give me a FREE tank of gas if the repair is covered under warranty. Do I have to ask for a FREE tank of gas?.....it will then happen???.....sounds like a dream.... but if you say so.... I will ask and see..... please confirm with me if there are any requirements
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post #23 of 29 Old 05-15-2008, 02:05 PM
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If all your concerns-and mind you here that some of the stuff you list wrong with your Camry i never heard of before- are genuine manufacturers defects,then yes we and Toyota would take care of you in the manner i described.Have you called Toyota Cust. Hotline at 1-800-331-4331?
Give that a shout and explain the situation!Hope this helps,
Dave

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1-800-459-4418 ext 3
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post #24 of 29 Old 05-15-2008, 04:02 PM
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Toyota's are famous for long term reliability and durability. Short term reliability (first year of ownership) is no better than American cars and may even be worse if you buy a Toyota during it's first year of an all new model design.
That's because in the first few years of ownership nothing should go wrong regardless of who made the car. My family got a new Toyota two years ago, and so far all it needed is oil and gas.

Ever since the mid 90's the quality has been declining though. I think most American cars are now as reliable as a Toyota. Their sales are partly due to the reputation they have built up, not their current products.

Quote:
Comparing the '08 Camry to my '00 yields similar results: cheaper materials, fit and finish issues, lots of rattles, etc.
Really? I drive a Gen 4 and I think the interior quality is crap. I think the biggest decline in quality came from Gen 3 to Gen 4. Combine that with oil sludge problems, the Gen 4 could be the worst Camry.
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post #25 of 29 Old 05-16-2008, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Madhun View Post
If all your concerns-and mind you here that some of the stuff you list wrong with your Camry i never heard of before- are genuine manufacturers defects,then yes we and Toyota would take care of you in the manner i described.Have you called Toyota Cust. Hotline at 1-800-331-4331?
Give that a shout and explain the situation!Hope this helps,
Dave
I have called toyota and opened cases twice... all they tell me it to take it to the dealership. You know I had to visit gullo toyota 5 times to get the side pillar covers fixed. Both the side cover popped out when hot in the car.

1st visit- We don't have the 'master certified technitian' to look at you car. get an appointment and come again.

2nd visit- Its the clips, we ordered new clips. get another appointment.

3rd visit- we replaced the clips!.....but both front pillar air bag covers popped out on the drive back.

4th visit- we orderd the whole cover. Come back again.

5th visit- IT IS FINALLY FIXED!!!!!

My cost - $60 in gas, 5 days of hassle- 20hrs of my time-- JUST 1 ISSUE OF THE MANY

This has been the same whole experience with every other issue I have had with the car.

My plan is to go drop the car off at the dealership at 35k and not pick it up unless each and every issue is fixed. I'll just get a rental or borrow a car for the whole week. Hopefully that will be my last visit.
Remaining issues- Dash rattle, another noise- sounds like valvetrain noise at 1500rpm, clicking sound from rear left shock upper area.

Thanks for you advice Dave, you have been helpful.
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post #26 of 29 Old 05-16-2008, 10:05 AM
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No probs.Thats a sad service record.Rest assured with us at least you`d have a few free oil changes.
Dave

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1-800-459-4418 ext 3
[email protected]
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post #27 of 29 Old 05-16-2008, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rty View Post
That's because in the first few years of ownership nothing should go wrong regardless of who made the car. My family got a new Toyota two years ago, and so far all it needed is oil and gas.

Ever since the mid 90's the quality has been declining though. I think most American cars are now as reliable as a Toyota. Their sales are partly due to the reputation they have built up, not their current products.



Really? I drive a Gen 4 and I think the interior quality is crap. I think the biggest decline in quality came from Gen 3 to Gen 4. Combine that with oil sludge problems, the Gen 4 could be the worst Camry.
From what i've seen comparing the Gen 6 and my Gen 4.5, I feel as the interior materials are of lower quality. The dashboard on the current models is made of a harder plastic, compared to my dashboard which has a nice soft touch material. Same with the interior door panels and other bits and pieces.

However, I will agree the Gen 3 was a much better built car than my Gen 4 is. It's obvious Toyota cheaped out on a few areas to cut costs. As for the sludge, I've never had that as an issue. Thank god.

I traded my Camry for a Caddy...
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post #28 of 29 Old 05-16-2008, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryannel2003 View Post
From what i've seen comparing the Gen 6 and my Gen 4.5, I feel as the interior materials are of lower quality. The dashboard on the current models is made of a harder plastic, compared to my dashboard which has a nice soft touch material. Same with the interior door panels and other bits and pieces.

However, I will agree the Gen 3 was a much better built car than my Gen 4 is. It's obvious Toyota cheaped out on a few areas to cut costs. As for the sludge, I've never had that as an issue. Thank god.
I have had each of the Gen3.5, Gen4, Gen5 and Gen6 Camrys. Here are my observations:
  1. Gen3.5: This was a very nice car, known to be so over-engineered that they had to remove features in the mid-cycle refreshment to keep the car affordable, things such as the flap that covered the slot under the single DIN head unit and the covers over the vanity mirrors in the sun visors. Otherwise, the materials were very high quality, the car was well-assembled, and the car was very smooth and refined, likely what made people consider the Camry to be a "luxury car". My car was assembled in Japan.
  2. Gen4: It was quite obvious that Toyota skimped on the interior materials. There was a lot of hard plastic and in places where there was softer plastic or even fabric in the Gen3.5 Camry. It also was definitely not as well-assembled, and had quite a few rattles. It was not quite as smooth and refined as my Gen3.5 Camry. My car was assembled in Kentucky, likely explaining the poorer assembly quality.
  3. Gen5: I felt my Gen5 Camry was smoother and more refined than my Gen4 Camry. The interior plastic was better quality, and it was better assembled also. My car was assembled in Japan.
  4. Gen6: Although my current Camry has the best-looking interior of my 4 Camrys in my opinion, it was again obvious that Toyota skimped on the interior materials. There is a lot of hard plastic, again in places that the Gen5 did not have it, and the assembly quality (mis-aligned plastic, harder/sharper edges, gaps) is not very good. I am on the 4th or 5th set of sun visors (I have had them changed so many times under warranty that I have lost count) because they would not stay in position; finally, this last time, I was told that there was a crucial step in the replacement process that had to be carefully followed, and now they are fine. (I do not blame the dealership, and in fact I go out of my way to return to that dealership because they treat me well.) My car was assembled in Kentucky.
I have noticed a trend: the odd-numbered generations (which were also the start of a completely new platform) were very good cars; the even-numbered generations skimped on material quality. It so happened that my odd-numbered generation Camrys were assembled in Japan and my even-numbered generation Camrys were assembled in Kentucky; I believe that the Japanese Camrys have better assembly quality. I have been able to compare the assembly quality of Kentucky-assembled Camrys and Canadian-assembled Corollas, and I believe that the Canadian-assembled Toyotas are better assembled.

I predict the Gen7 (2012 model year?) Camry will have better interior materials. I just hope that the assembly quality improves. I hope that the assembly quality of the new Venza is better than my 2007 Camry.

Will I stick with Toyota when the lease on my current Camry expires in 2010? That is more than likely, because Toyotas have served me well, and despite the interior material quality and assembly quality problems, my Toyotas have all served me very well, and have never, ever left me stranded even in the dead of winter here in the Great White North. And, I have grown to love the "boring" styling of Toyotas; I am not a show-off and so I do not like the styling of the current Hondas. I may look for a Japanese-assembled or Canadian-assembled Toyota, though.
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post #29 of 29 Old 05-17-2008, 12:11 AM
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A lot of cars from the 80's have hard plastics and they hold up great. The steering wheel on the Gen 4 is soft and it wears out fast. The door panels on the Gen 4 are soft, but they are very fragile. To me it's a question of quality, not soft vs. hard.

My parents have a Canadian Corolla and the interior quality compares with my Kentucky made Gen 4. 10 years separate the cars, yet many parts are exactly the same, such as the handbrake, the center storage compartment, and the interior door handles. It has a few bad panel gaps just like the Gen 4. Also, some of the plastic has flash marks on it.
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