AE92 & AE82 Brake upgrade options.... - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
Corolla Older Generations (1969-1987) Specific discussion of the AE86, along with generations 1 through 5.

 
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post #1 of 9 Old 09-29-2006, 05:51 AM Thread Starter
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Post AE92 & AE82 Brake upgrade options....

Ok here is some info I found while looking for info on what I need to put rear disc on my car.
I got it from
http://www.twincam.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1063

Figured I would post it since brake questions come up, from others and myself.




Firstly NOTE the following information is for Australian models and MAY vary for US, UK and other markets. I suspect Toyota being Toyota they used the same parts worldwide but take this into account anyway and measure before you buy or fit so you don't waste time and money.

Secondly Toyota have made it a common practice over the years to produce many interchangable parts and brakes are no exception.

AE82

Originally this topic was solely aimed at the AE92 as that is the model I have worked on most. Recently though I have done some work on an AE82 (singlecam's 4AGZE AE82) brake system and it's time for an update to reflect this.

AE82 REAR

See the proceedure below for the replacement of AE92 drums with AE92 discs. It is almost exactly the same for the AE82 EXCEPT where the AE92 demands that you replace the rear most suspension arm with the arm from disc-braked donor car the AE82 does not. All you need is the discs, calipers, hubs, uprights, handbrake cables and flexible brake lines.

AE82 FRONT

Exactly the same as that for AE92 below. I have now completed swapping the Superstrut twin piston calipers onto an AE82 and I can confirm that all the measurements are the same. Discs should be machined down to 262-263mm in diameter.

AE92

WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY GOT

The AE92 series Corolla's came out with a couple of different brake setups depending on the year of manufacture of the car.

1.) Ex factory the early series AE92 series Corolla's (up to 6/91 in Australia) had either :

a.) 243mm * 13.5mm thick solid discs at the front with drums in the rear (Basically all models from the base (CS) to the higher spec (CS-X) Hatch and Seca in Australia EXCEPT for the SX as below and the "Ultima" Seca which had the solid front discs (but may also have had rear discs) OR

b.) 238mm dia * 18mm thick vented front discs with 242mm dia * 9mm thick solid rear discs. (SX hatch and Seca in Australia also refered to as the FX and other model codes in US and other countries)


2.) Ex factory the late series AE92 series Corolla's (From 6/91 on in Australia) had either :

a.) 243mm * 13.5mm thick solid discs at the front with drums in the rear (Basically all models from the base (CS) to the higher spec (CS-X) Hatch and Seca in Australia EXCEPT for the SX as below and the "Ultima" Seca which had the solid front discs but may also have had rear discs) OR

b.) 258mm dia * 22mm thick vented front discs with 242mm dia * 9mm thick solid rear discs. (GTi hatch and SX Seca in Australia also refered to as the FX and other model codes in US and other countries)

THE most important measurement to take is the centre hole of the disc. ALL AE92 models had a 54mm centre hole!!!

WHAT YOU CAN FIT

So for those who want to do a brake upgrade on the AE92 series Corolla's you have the following options :

AE92 REAR

1.) If you have drums you can bolt on the standard AE92 rear discs, which are the same as the (Jap-spec) AE92 levin GTZ rear discs.

To do this conversion you will need to source the follwoing parts -

- Both rear discs
- Both rear calipers
- Both rear hubs / uprights
- Both rear flexible brake lines
- Both sides of the handbrake cable
- Most importantly it is very important when buying the parts for this conversion (assuming it's off a wrecked SX Corolla) you will need to get the two rear most suspension arms from the wreck as the suspension bushes are different. If you cannot get these arms for whatever reason bushes can be made up to enable the hubs from the SX to be fitted to the suspension arms of the non-SX. Steve Williamson or Jason Purcell can guide you as to where to go to get this done as they have both done it themselves in Brisbane.

NOTE however that by going from drums to discs at the back you may affect brake bias and may need to have the "crack point" of your bias valve altered (by a professional) by changing it's internal springs to suit the discs. Adjustable bias valves are illegal on the roads (at least they are in Australia).

2.) If you already have rear discs but they're not enough you have only two options :

a.) The AE101 has 266mm dia * 9mm thick solid rear discs BUT the centre hole of these discs is 55mm rather than the AE92's 54mm. 1mm might not sound like much but once you fit it and you have a massive vibration you'll soon realise it is. This means they'll flop around like a c0ck in a bucket as it's the centre hole that centre's the disc on the hub.

I have now completed this conversion and found it has made a noticable difference to how well the car pulls up. I have felt for some time that the AE92 needs a little more rear bias and in my opinion it seems that Toyota went about fitting bigger rear brakes to the AE101 to achieve this rather than going about it the proper/traditional way and adjusting the bias valve in the master cylinder. It's cheating but it works.

From here you have two methods (I did the first/easiest one):

I.) Fit the AE101 hub in place of the AE92 hub. The is a very simple bolt on job.

- Remove the AE92 calipers and discs.
- Remove bearing carrier
- Remove disc dust shield
- Fit AE101 dust shield in place of AE92 item (fits straight on)
- Fit AE101 bearing carrier in place on AE92 item (bolts straight on)
- Fit AE101 disc and caliper (NOTE the AE92 hand brake cables need to be retained and will work perfectly with the AE101 calipers)

NOTES RE STEP 2 ABOVE : The "bearing carrier" is the part that unblots from the "upright" (the big lump of cast metal that the control arms, strut and bearing carrier bolt to) by sticking a 14mm socket through the hole in the "hub" (the round part holding the four wheel studs that the disc and then wheel go over the top of) and undoing the four bolts holding it in place. It has the same mounting bolt pattern as the AE92 so the AE101 bearing carrier will bolt straight on in place of the AE92 bearing carrier.

The reason you NEED this bit is that it gives you the 55mm centre hole needed for the AE101 discs. It also gives you the added benefit of a slight increase in track.

These parts should be the same as the Aussie delivered AE101's so you can either buy from a wrecker who has a rear disc Aussie AE101 or buy a complete strut assembly from the time wasting, scumbag, rip off merchants at Just Jap in Kirrawee. Last time I asked they wanted $125 a side for a complete strut, upright and brakes from a Jap AE101.

I picked mine up from a private sale for $100 for both sides and then sold off the AE101 rear struts for $50. These struts are the same as the AE92 rear SX struts which are the bigger type needed to fit Koni inserts. The short version = they're saleable.

Bleed the brakes and your rear upgrade is finished, simple as that.

The only other consideration in doing this conversion is that you may find the AE101 rear discs may have ABS. If it does you will find an ABS "tone wheel" on the back of the bearing carrier when you remove it. This will not allow the AE101 hub to bolt up to the AE92 upright. You can remove this by putting the hub in a vice and removing the ABS tone wheel (it may break off before it comes undone - that's ok as it's useless to you anyway) OR you could drill a 10mm hole through the centre of the tone wheel and it will fall off.

If you insist on being difficult then you can always do it the hard way and -

II.) It should be possible to get the centre hole machined to be larger still and then machine up a ring which is 54mm inside dia and has a matching outside dia to what you've machined your discs out to. Example - If you machine the centre hole of the AE101 disc out to say 64mm and make your ring 64mm OD and 54mm ID the ring will slot in between the hub and the centre hole of the disc to centre the disc. NOTE To do this properly the ring should be a interferance fit with the disc so there is no play and also the ring should have a taper machined into the back of it (where it sits against the hub face) as the disc does, to centre it properly.

b.) Custom made, which = $$$$$$

AE92 FRONT

1.) If you have Solid front discs then you have three options :

a.) You can simply bolt on either early series AE92 (SX) 238mm dia * 18mm thick vented discs and calipers OR

b.) You can simply bolt on late series AE92 (SX Seca / GTi) 258mm dia * 22mm thick vented discs and calipers. OR

NOTE : These discs share the (all important) same centre hole and disc offset. All of the AE92 (and also the later AE101 and AE111) hubs share the same caliper mounting holes, so the calipers will bolt on.

c.) You can fit the superstrut brakes (Procedure explained below).

NOTE : both b and c above will require slight modification to the backing plate for clearance

2.) If you already have early series AE92 SX front brakes (238mm dia * 18mm thick vented discs). You have two options :

a.) You can simply bolt on late series AE92 (SX Seca / GTi) 258mm dia * 22mm thick vented discs and calipers. OR

NOTE : These discs share the (all important) same centre hole and disc offset. All of the AE92 (and also the later AE101 and AE111) hubs share the same caliper mounting holes, so the calipers should bolt on.

b.) You can fit the superstrut brakes (Procedure explained below).

NOTE : both a and b above will require slight modification to the backing plate for clearance

3.) If you already have late series AE92 SX front brakes (258mm dia * 22mm thick vented discs). You have only one option :

a.) You can fit the superstrut brakes (Procedure explained below).

You'll need at least 14 inch Rims to fit over the late series AE92 SX brakes but 13 inch rims will fit over the early series AE92 SX brakes.

SUPERSTRUT BRAKES



The Superstrut brakes as available on the AE101 Levin's etc as an option in Japan have 275mm dia * 25mm thick vented discs and twin piston calipers. Fortunately they also sport the same 54mm centre hole and disc offset as the AE92 series Corolla brakes which allows them to be fitted easily to this model Corolla. The swept volume of the twin pistons is the same as the, larger, single piston in the other brake options mentioned above so these do not affect brake bias and being a twin piston design, while not as good as a proper "opposed" piston (2 pot or 4 pot) they give much better "feel" and less pedal effort. The advantages of these brakes is the thicker disc, twin piston caliper and that the caliper is mounted radially further out (can apply marginally greater braking torque).

To fit them to the AE92 series Corolla's you do have to do a few modifications though (It's worth the effort though ). You should do the modifications in this order :

1.) You will find that the caliper won't actually bolt straight onto the AE92 hub as the middle of the caliper hits the centre of the hub. You need to relieve a small amount of material from the caliper for clearance then the caliper will bolt straight up as the mounting bolt pattern is exactly the same. This is easy to do with a simple angle grinder and doesn't weaken the caliper at all. If you do a dummy fit of the caliper onto the hub (without the disc) you'll see exactly where the material needs to be removed anyway. There is a "ridge" in the material at the point where removal is required, grind down to this point and you'll have plenty of clearance. With this done the caliper should now be able to mount up to the hub without hitting anything. See pic below........on to step 2






2.) You will need to find someone who can machine the disc down in DIAMETER not just the normal surface machining method. The reason for this is that the mounting point for the caliper on the AE92 hub is further in than the AE101 hub so you'll find that the inside of the caliper will foul the outer edge of the disc if you try to fit it without reducing the diameter of the disc first. In fact the caliper won't even reach it's mounting points with the disc un-machined. The most effective way to do this is to supply the brake machinist a hub, a caliper and both discs so he can machine the disc to suit the specific brakes you have. The Superstrut brakes fitted to my car were machined down to 259mm diameter but the pads sit right at the edge of the disc and given there is still plenty of clearance between the outer edge of the disc and the inner edge of the caliper I would only machine them down to 262mm if I were to do this again..

3.) Bit's and pieces :
- Pads for the Superstrut brakes are the same as SW20 MR2 so parts aren't a problem.
- The AE92 flexible brake lines will bolt up to the twin piston calipers.
- The minimum I've tried these brakes under is a 14inch wheel and they don't quite fit. You'd need either aftermarket 14's or a ~5mm or so spacer to make them fit under a 14 inch rim. They will definitely fit under 15's.
- Disc Brakes Australia (DBA) has a disc which is basically the same as the Superstrut disc save for 3mm extra diameter (but you need to machine them down anyway).
The part number for these discs is DBA743 and they are off the ST185 Celica. This makes them a five stud bolt pattern but this can easily be re-drilled. In fact if you order at the right time and through the right people you can get "blank" discs which are not yet drilled for stud pattern.

COMPARISON OF BRAKE DIAMETER OF ALL THREE DISCS


COMPARISON OF BRAKE THICKNESS OF ALL THREE DISCS


Other Options

There are two other options, both of which I've done, and both of which I don't like and wouldn't do again :

1.) The "normal" (non-Superstrut) AE101 brakes use a 255mm dia * 22mm thick disc and use the same single piston caliper as both of the AE92 series SX brakes. The problem with these is they use a 55mm centre hole so they don't go straight onto the AE92 hubs (54mm centre hole). You can either :

a.) Do the same as mentioned above for rear brakes by swapping the AE101 bearing and hub into the AE92 upright. AE92, AE101 and AE111 all share the same front wheel bearing. AE82 wheel bearings are a different part number but without having tried to interchange them I wouldn't be prepared to say that later bearings WON'T fit OR

b.) Fit the AE101 hub / upright as well. To do this you'll need a tapered reaming tool (and costs about $90) with just the right taper for the AE92 ball joint as the AE101 ball joint is smaller in diameter along the length of the taper. You need to ream out the hole at the bottom of the AE101 hub to fit the AE92 ball joint into it. Then the AE101 hub will bolt on and allow easier fitment of the AE101's normal brakes. The AE92 tie rod ends will bolt straight up to the AE101 upright.


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post #2 of 9 Old 09-29-2006, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
It is almost exactly the same for the AE82 EXCEPT where the AE92 demands that you replace the rear most suspension arm with the arm from disc-braked donor car the AE82 does not.
Sorta true, however, you can use AE92 rear calipers with the AE82 caliper bracket, that goes in between the hub and suspension arm. OR you can make your own bracket, so necessarily changing the suspension arm doesnt have to be done. I didnt do it, I thought its gonna be a shitload of extra work to do it. AE82 caliper has a 32mm piston as the AE92 one has a 30mm piston.
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post #3 of 9 Old 09-29-2006, 04:44 PM
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I'm making this thread a sticky.



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post #4 of 9 Old 01-14-2007, 10:59 PM
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those dual piston calipers look just like the ones i got off a ST165 celica.

Last edited by Bitter; 04-26-2007 at 11:23 PM.
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post #5 of 9 Old 04-11-2007, 05:34 PM
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visit my website at www.ozone1000.com for another brake upgrade option (USA based).
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post #6 of 9 Old 06-07-2007, 08:41 PM
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So wheres a good place to get ae101 rotors ? Ohh & both my 14's & 15's didnt fit with my ae101 brakes


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post #7 of 9 Old 06-08-2007, 10:42 AM
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parts store or dealership?
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post #8 of 9 Old 08-25-2007, 02:58 AM
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I need the e-brake cables ASAP from a AE92 or a AE111 or AE101 Both cables LEFT and RIGHT PLEASE!! e-mail me directly @ [email protected]

"STRIVING FOR AE102 PERFECTION"
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post #9 of 9 Old 09-13-2007, 03:41 AM
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I have brakes on my car from AE92 (87-89) with 238x18 front and 242x9 rear. EBC rotors and pads front/rear.
Can i fit bigger rotor from later AE92 258x22 (front) without change anything or mod?
thx
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