Horrible startup rattle, 2008 Corolla(video inside) - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
Corolla 9th Gen/1st Gen Matrix (2003-2008) 9th generation Corolla and 1st generation Matrix discussion.

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post #1 of 12 Old 05-13-2019, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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Horrible startup rattle, 2008 Corolla(video inside)

Hello,

My girlfriends car (2008 Corolla LE) has developed a horrible rattle on startup. It goes away after idling a few minutes or after driving for a few minutes. I thought it might be the timing chain hitting the guides, so I changed out the tensioner, but the sound isn't isolated to the timing chain side of the motor. The rattling seems closer to the entire side of the engine facing the front of the car. The heat shields at the rear of the engine also seem pretty solid.

Here's a video of the noise.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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post #2 of 12 Old 05-14-2019, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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I'm thinking it might be a loose torque converter bolt. I had this issue with a previous car.

Does anyone know if the torque converter bolts can be easily accessed? I'm not very familiar with the car, but it looks like I might have to remove the mounts and lift the motor/transmission in order to access the torque converter bolts.
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post #3 of 12 Old 05-14-2019, 06:36 PM
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Try removing your serpentine belt and start the engine. You may have a bad bearing in one of those pullies.

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post #4 of 12 Old 05-14-2019, 07:21 PM
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Buy stethoscope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Another way to locate sound is to use cAMERA. Shoot video and move camera around engine. then you will watch the video on computer and see where sound is coming from.
You possibly have dead pulley or water pump/alternator/AC compressor bearing.
I use 2 types of stethoscope:
"Mechanics"- with stick
"Doctors"- no stick
second one was stolen from my daughter's toy box.

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post #5 of 12 Old 05-15-2019, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tips. It looked like the belt needs to be replaced anyway. I had a buddy come over last night and he said it almost sounds like the starter isn't retracting. I'll report my findings no matter what the results.
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post #6 of 12 Old 05-16-2019, 10:15 AM
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does it still do it as you drive??? could be a rod bearing... reminds me of the time when I blew the 5MGE at the track in my old Supra, drove it home and that's all I could hear and the car wouldn't pass 85km/h... rod bearing blew due to me forgetting to check my oil level and adding more.



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post #7 of 12 Old 05-16-2019, 10:26 AM
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05 Rolla has timing chain? Not belt? Just asking.
Anyhow. Here's my 2 cents.
Whatever you have, belt or chain, that type of cold start noise is typical of what is generally called tining chain/belt slap.

Yes, I did see that you replaced tensioner.
But here's the thing.
1. either belt or chain stretch, resulting in slack and becoming source for slap.
2. tensioners, in whatever form, spring or hydraulic, seize functioning properly over the time. Either the spring stretched or tensioner does not have ratcheting mechanism to prevent it from recessing itself back into its housing overnight or, oil pressure takes time to build up in tensioner, resulting in slapping belt/chain.
Keep in mind that engine is a large metal object conducting sound very well and engine bay is excellent resonator, deceiving where noise is coming from.
Also, slack in belt/chain WILL result in off camshaft position, what WILL result in rockers slap, what WILL sound across pretty much entire engine.
Now, AS ENGINE WARMS UP AND OIL PRESSURE BUILDS UP, tension on the belt/chain restores to where it should be - et voila, noise is gone.

My suspicion is - you have oil passages clogged for whatever reasons, retarding oil pressure build up, resulting in what you read above.

That's my dos centavos, based on dozens of videos of various engines having just that - timing slap.


Now, what remedy do I recommend? Seafoam engine. Twice. Son had horrendous cold start up racket on Nissan V6 engine. We fixed it with one Seafoaming, it came back few months later, second Seafoaming - was good till he sold the car. Also, you got to watch dem oil level and oil changes.




Last edited by ukrkoz; 05-16-2019 at 10:31 AM.
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post #8 of 12 Old 05-16-2019, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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So the noise is somewhat intermittent. It will make the noise 99.9% of the time when starting cold. However, the rattle could completely vanish 10 seconds after starting, and everything will sound normal for a second or maybe 30 seconds, but the rattling will return. It'll eventually go away after driving or idling for a bit (warm up?) but it almost always happens on a cold start.

Yes, her car has a chain, it's an 08.

I see where you're coming from regarding oil passages/pressure, so I'm not ruling that out yet. One thing I should have mentioned is that her car only leaves the garage maybe 3 times per month on short trips, which is why the starter not retracting makes sense to me.

I'm going to look at the car more this weekend. -go after the low hanging fruit first.
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post #9 of 12 Old 05-16-2019, 11:22 AM
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I GUARANTEE you that you have oil leak down and when you start it up, all passages are bone dry and it takes time to build up pressure and make things move the right way.
Also - sorry, surely, 08 is chain, not sure why I saw 05, must be cheap Wallmart glasses - you do have VVT-i, right? What, again, is oil pressure operated. And what exactly does VVT do? Sets rockers on tappets/valve stems. As it moves camshaft that way or another.
So here you go.
Cars are made to be driven, to be honest, not to sit do squat. They don't like it.
I just don't want you to jump onto on a hunch parts replacements. So if you could get oil pressure gauge installed somehow somewhere and find what the spec for it is..... or you will become beloved customer to either dealer or parts store, if you were DIY type.



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post #10 of 12 Old 05-16-2019, 11:26 AM
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You know, easy fix that always worked for me was to switch to thicker oil. Instead of that 0W20 water, to 10W30. Even if just for a few dozen miles. If issue gets better - well, you know what direction to head. Or, add Lucas oil treatment. thickens oil.
But think about it. It's 12 yo car. Tolerances in crankshaft bearings are surely not what they used to be from factory. And they play major role in oil pressure build up. Other tolerances got out of spec too, just normal wear and tear. I am not even asking, how regularly was this vehicle serviced....and with what quality oil.

But I am now sort of firm - it's oil pressure issue. I'd have Seafomed it.



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post #11 of 12 Old 05-16-2019, 11:29 AM
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Will assume engine has oil and reasonable maintenance history.

Remove serpentine belt. Start engine. See how it sounds. Shut it off and reinstall belt. Post video of start with no belt.

Change oil and filter using a full synthetic 5w40 oil and a full synthetic oil filter. Repost video with synth 5w40/synth filter and brands/pn of fluids used.

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post #12 of 12 Old 05-16-2019, 12:29 PM
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another thing it could be is the infamous belt tensioner... I remember seeing threads about how the 1ZZFE has them go bad all the time, used to happen on the Celica GT's all the time.



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