Let's Talk Brake Pads - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
Corolla 9th Gen/1st Gen Matrix (2003-2008) 9th generation Corolla and 1st generation Matrix discussion.

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post #1 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 10:19 AM Thread Starter
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Let's Talk Brake Pads

I've had my corolla for about 6 years now and have only had to put 2 sets of pads on it in that time. Recently, I purchased a set of Raybestos (Element 3) Hybrid brake pads. What makes them interesting is that they are a hybrid of both semi-metallic and ceramic brake material, according to the website. They are supposed to offer benefits of each. I've never seen these before, and I've like Raybestos pads in the past for daily drivers, so I decided to buy a pair and see what happened. What a piece of garbage they turned out to be.


They started off great. Quiet, smooth, good stopping distance, but as time went on, I started to notice more of a "squeal" as I hit the brakes. I do a lot of highway driving so sometimes you're on the brakes for a good distance. Just the other day, I rode the brake down an entire block and they squeeled the whole way. Coincidently, the more noise, the worse the braking has become. The rotors are clean and true. I changed them when I bought the pads and they don't vibrate and are very clean.


So what about you? Are there and pads that you found to be so bad that you couldn't wait even half the life span before a change? Or what about some pads that you bought and they turned out to be absolutely wonderful? Let me know you're story, and if you're curious, here's a link to the Element 3's from above....




https://www.brakepartsinc.com/raybes...ent3-pads.html
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post #2 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 11:06 AM
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Did you replace the pads? Check the guide pins and the piston. If the caliper is applying uneven pressure, means that one pad is touching the rotor surface or is too close to the rotor face. The squeals as pressure is applied.

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post #3 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 11:28 AM
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I have Powerstop Z17 full Ceramic on my old XRS... they're quiet and I've never experienced fading or noise with them and seemed to take my abuse well, lol. Highly recommended.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...jsn=__GIP__2__
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...jsn=__GIP__3__



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post #4 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 11:29 AM
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This is my gripe with ceramics. They rub or make noises. This MY experience with them after several Toyota vehicles. Every time I replaced them with semi mets, problem was gone.
Now, here's just an observation. Hybrid anything is a spork - neither fork nor a spoon. Neither great semi met nor great ceramic.
As to your concern, OP. I safely bet you have glazed rotors. And they WILL squeal. Look at them. Are they SHINY? If they are, there it is. Kinda like a mirror.

Hard pads (ceramic) develop that glazed layer and then it acts like a chalk board type noise producer.
I had quite a few rotors that did this after hard pads install or, simply from age. That layer needs to be removed, either by turning or taking high speed grinder wheel to it and shaving it off in circular motion, aka Blanchard grinding.

Best way to proceed with brakes is to have new/resurfaced rotors bedded immediately with new pads. that creates cementite layer in rotor that is very resilient to any wear and glazing and it all lasts for years.





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post #5 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 01:16 PM
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I actually replaced the Toyota OEM Metallic pads on my RAV4 with the Z17 as well because the OEM were squealing to shite when reversing... no squealing now with the full Ceramic.



2005 Corolla XRS - my beater
2008 RAV4 - her beater
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post #6 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 04:58 PM
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I always buy cheapest pads, I don't know difference. If they make noise, there is special glue (?) for that.
Last couple times I got brake pads from junk yard. I don't go there to get pads, I go for something else, why not to grab brake pads for free?

05 Matrix, 05 Solara

Last edited by car5car; 05-14-2019 at 05:30 PM.
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post #7 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 05:13 PM
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I prefer performance semi-metallic pads, they don't ever squeal. Such as Hawk Performance or EBC Orangestuff.
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post #8 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 05:14 PM
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Check out Akebono Proact ceramics on rockauto. Google up a 5% off code.

Centric rotors if you need them. C-tek doesn’t have coated hubs, their Premiums do.
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post #9 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 05:23 PM
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Check out the pads on rockauto, plenty of low cost alternatives like Centric C-Tek series, but I recommend Akebono.

JIS K2228 approved grease like CRC Silaramic grease if needed. Permatex green or purple will swell the rubber and cause things to stick.


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Originally Posted by car5car View Post
I always buy cheapest pads, I don't know difference. If they make noise, there is special glue (?) for that.
Last couple times I got brake pads from junk yard. I don't go there to get pads, I go for something else, why not to grab brake pads for close to nothing?
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post #10 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 05:31 PM
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I got the centrics from RA, fit and seem fine, didn't touch the rotors, they did not need it. I think it was $17 to my door for the Echo. They scuffed the edges and shut up in a few miles. I seldom use the brakes, coast more, or be less aggressive but the lights need to be green when I get there and some Morons don't understand the conservation of inertia.
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post #11 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 06:35 PM
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Yeah, I can go from home to work and touch brakes maybe 5-10 times.

I have co-worker who needs to replace his pads every other month.
Any chance he gets, he stabs brakes.
Someone brakes 2-miles up freeway, stabs brakes.
Someone ahead changes lanes, stabs brakes.
Wants to change lanes? Stabs brakes.
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post #12 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 07:08 PM
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I just put those Element3 pads on my car. So far, so good, though there seems to be a lot more brake dust on the wheels. The difference between cheap & expensive pads is the coefficient of friction (CF), or how grabby the pads are. The Element3 pads are rated GG, while most low cost ceramics are FE.
Have a look here for detail on pad CF ratings: http://faculty.ccbcmd.edu/~smacadof/DOTPadCodes.htm
BTW -- " Also, you should know that Steel on Steel has a C.F. of 0.25!! So EE pads have only marginally more torque than no pads at all" ...and FE pads when hot, really really suck.
I've never had squeal from my brakes, but I always us a sticky spray (Permatex) on the back of the pads, and the anti-rattle shims, and the silicone grease. A little of a PITA to get it right, but it pays off.
.

Last edited by Riick; 05-16-2019 at 10:01 AM.
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post #13 of 23 Old 05-14-2019, 09:37 PM
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My preference is for Advics pads. It's parent company is Aisin, which is 30% owned by Toyota.

Close 2nd preference is Akebono.

.



2004 Corolla LE 373K+ miles.
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post #14 of 23 Old 05-16-2019, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riick View Post
I just put element 3 pads on my car. So far, so good, though there seems to be a lot more brake dust on the wheels. The difference between cheap & expensive pads is the coefficient of friction, or how grabby the pads are. The Element3 pads are rated GG, while most low cost ceramics are FE.
Have a look here for detail: http://faculty.ccbcmd.edu/~smacadof/DOTPadCodes.htm


BTW -- " Also, you should know that Steel on Steel has a C.F. of 0.25!! So EE pads have only marginally more torque than no pads at all" ...and FE pads when hot, really really suck.



I've never had squeal from my brakes, but I always us a sticky spray on the back of the pads, and the anti-rattle shims, and the silicone grease. A little of a PITA to get it right, but it pays off.
.
Force on pedal is multiplied by brake booster, so if you have cheap brake pads you will have to depress pedal about 1/4 lb. harder!

05 Matrix, 05 Solara
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post #15 of 23 Old 05-16-2019, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car5car View Post
Force on pedal is multiplied by brake booster, so if you have cheap brake pads you will have to depress pedal about 1/4 lb. harder!
(Smacks self upside head) You're absolutely right !!
But, I'm confusicated
Riddle me this:
Why they make all kind brake pads?
Why not use only Solid Steel Pads?
Like you say: Just Press Harder.
"Yeah.... That's the ticket! Solid Steel.
"Me brake pads are SS pads. Solid Steel.
"Strongest, brightest, longest lasting pads in dah world.

?????????
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