Premium Gas = Higher Gas Milage?? - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
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post #1 of 113 Old 08-09-2008, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
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Premium Gas = Higher Gas Milage??

Ok, so there's a gas station around here that is going out of business, so they are selling out all of their gas. They're out of the unleaded, so they're selling the premium for the cost of unleaded. My friends swears on her life that premium gas will give you better gas mileage, but I don't really believe it. I still go there to buy the premium stuff, just because I can do it for the same price as unleaded (plus 5 cents off for paying cash) but i don't really think it's doing anything spectacular to my car.

Does anyone know?
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post #2 of 113 Old 08-09-2008, 04:06 AM
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Doesn't do anything if your car can't take advantage of it. Some Toyota V6's are suppose to run better on premium though.

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post #3 of 113 Old 08-09-2008, 08:40 AM
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If the engine is designed to run on regular you will see absolutely no increase in mileage using premium. If the engine is designed to run on premium you can usually get away with running on regular with no noticable drop in mileage. However, you will loose a little bit of power. Your friend is wrong.
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post #4 of 113 Old 08-09-2008, 09:05 PM
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tanyaisntarobot, what follows is taken from a post I placed in another forum regarding this subject. Take it at face value....

Just an additional note regarding super unleaded as many people freak out about that. I've made full tank comparisons between regular and super unleaded in every vehicle I've driven over the last thirty years and I've always seen the same result: regular unleaded yields poorer mileage but is cheaper, while super yields higher mileage but is more expensive. In the end, cost per miles driven is virtually identical. Why do I use super then? Two reasons. First, I hate filling up so when using super my improved mileage can keep me on the road (depending on the vehicle) an extra day or two before filling up. Second, I have a relative and a best friend who work as chemical engineers at major refineries who state that although detergents are added to all grades of gas, super grades offer the most benefits.

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post #5 of 113 Old 08-09-2008, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
If the engine is designed to run on regular you will see absolutely no increase in mileage using premium. If the engine is designed to run on premium you can usually get away with running on regular with no noticable drop in mileage. However, you will loose a little bit of power. Your friend is wrong.



Modern engines have knock sensors which will retard timing to prevent pre-detonation. This timing retard reduces power and efficiency. Higher octane gas will allow more timing before pre-detonation (knock) occurs, thereby increasing power and efficiency. If you custom-tune your engine and modify the fuel mapping and spark tables to increase your potential even more, but then you'll be required to run a higher octane fuel.

With all that said, I doubt you will re-coup the added cost of the premium fuel. I run 91/92 octane fuel and I might see an extra 1-2 MPGs, certainly not enough to cover the extra 20-22 cents/gal I pay for 92 octane. I run it for power, not economy reasons.
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post #6 of 113 Old 08-10-2008, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TrailDust View Post
tanyaisntarobot, what follows is taken from a post I placed in another forum regarding this subject. Take it at face value....

Just an additional note regarding super unleaded as many people freak out about that. I've made full tank comparisons between regular and super unleaded in every vehicle I've driven over the last thirty years and I've always seen the same result: regular unleaded yields poorer mileage but is cheaper, while super yields higher mileage but is more expensive. In the end, cost per miles driven is virtually identical. Why do I use super then? Two reasons. First, I hate filling up so when using super my improved mileage can keep me on the road (depending on the vehicle) an extra day or two before filling up. Second, I have a relative and a best friend who work as chemical engineers at major refineries who state that although detergents are added to all grades of gas, super grades offer the most benefits.

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+1 on this.

I will say that I've put premium in my little 4 banger before, and based on several 0-60 tests using both regular (87) and premium (91-92) I have concluded that using premium nets me exactly 0.00 RWHP. My gas milage may increase by a tiny bit, we'll see for sure after I burn off the rest of this tank. Almost everygas station where I live, the price difference between lowest grade and highest grade is 20 or 21 cents. I usually buy about 15 gallons at a time, so that winds up costing me $3 more per tank, which for me averages out to about a whopping 8 bucks per month. Will I get good enough improvements in gas milage to more than cover it? Probably not. Is my truck suddently more powerful? No. IMO, on engines that are designed to run on 87 it really just doesn't matter, do whatever floats your boat. If your car is supposed to have premium, that's a different story.


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post #7 of 113 Old 08-11-2008, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Vmax2007 View Post


Modern engines have knock sensors which will retard timing to prevent pre-detonation. This timing retard reduces power and efficiency. Higher octane gas will allow more timing before pre-detonation (knock) occurs, thereby increasing power and efficiency. If you custom-tune your engine and modify the fuel mapping and spark tables to increase your potential even more, but then you'll be required to run a higher octane fuel.

With all that said, I doubt you will re-coup the added cost of the premium fuel. I run 91/92 octane fuel and I might see an extra 1-2 MPGs, certainly not enough to cover the extra 20-22 cents/gal I pay for 92 octane. I run it for power, not economy reasons.

I'm quite aware of the ignition timing issues. Have you ever done any testing to see if that extra timing actually hurts economy? I know people who have, and it may drop economy, but by an immeasurable amount.
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post #8 of 113 Old 08-11-2008, 02:30 PM
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It makes no difference GAS MILEAGE wise.....power wise a SMALL difference on engines that NEED higher octane. Its just throwing money away to use it really on any engine. The slight difference in power is not worth expensive gas nowadays. Its not possible that the gas mileage would be affected. The knock sensors will adjust to the lower octane and just reduce PEAK power somewhat noticably. It CANT affect gas mileage by more than the TINIEST amount.
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post #9 of 113 Old 08-11-2008, 02:39 PM
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When I drop 91/92/93 octane gas, i notice that I don't have to refill as often as I do than if i was using 87 octane.

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post #10 of 113 Old 08-11-2008, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevintomb View Post
It makes no difference GAS MILEAGE wise.....power wise a SMALL difference on engines that NEED higher octane. Its just throwing money away to use it really on any engine. The slight difference in power is not worth expensive gas nowadays. Its not possible that the gas mileage would be affected. The knock sensors will adjust to the lower octane and just reduce PEAK power somewhat noticably. It CANT affect gas mileage by more than the TINIEST amount.
Then my suggestion to you is to conduct your own experiment and see. As I mentioned earlier, I've done this test on every vehicle I've owned over the past THIRTY years and have always seen the same results: Better mileage with super, lower with regular. And while we're talking about octane, knock, etc., here's and excerpt of something I posted in a different forum that directly relates to fuel and mileage....

Many people report poor or inconsistent mileage with the same vehicle. The big culprit in poor mileage may well be the gasoline blend. Most people think gasoline from Brand X actually came from Brand X's refineries, well, it very often does not. Gasoline is bought and sold on the open market and often not from your expected source. Also, when gasoline is produced at the refinery samples are constantly pulled for testing, much as master beer brewers pull samples, and the gasoline is tweaked in order to compensate for vapor lock, etc. In the end, the gasoline that leaves the refinery is only as good as the chemist who blended it. Finally, people also think that gasoline is produced and shipped immediately, but the reality is very different. Selling winter blend during the summer season (and vice versa) is common, and it's not just Mom & Pop small sellers who buy it cheaply off-season and sell it at those tempting discount prices, the independently-owned national brands do it too. This gas is produced according to demand estimates and stored in massive tank farms, then sold later when needed.

In summary, purchasing gas is more akin to playing the roulette wheel on a rolling cruise ship than anything else. If you can find a station in your area that consistently offers good gas, you're lucky. According to my sources there's two major brands that refine gas very well, and make efforts to ensure the stations that display their name also sell qualitative gas. Why have I not mentioned them?...I don't need a flame war over brands or a law suit from a brand either.

So take a look at where you're buying your gas, and at the very least don't buy it those nationally known discount warehouses or Mom & Pop stores that offer the tempting deals, as the saying "if it's too good to be true..." most often applies. Just food for thought.

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post #11 of 113 Old 08-11-2008, 10:42 PM
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The only thing I think High octane does is help with knock and stop detonation. I don't really think it does more or less than just that. I know that high compression Honda engines have to have high octane or they start sounding like a diesel which sounds funny but will kill the car quickly. As for better gas mileage keep the fuel clean, and change filters. I also use the Lucus upper cylinder lube ever 3 or 4 months. Does anyone use this Lucus product? I personally like this and some marvel mystery I think they are good products thats just my opinion.
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post #12 of 113 Old 08-17-2008, 01:19 AM
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Depends on the vehicle. I have tracked mileage for my 2002 Isuzu for 6 years. At 87 octane I get 13.4 MPG, average, at mid-grade 88.5 I get 16 MPG, average. (most stations have 87, 88 and 89 octane gas, but I found a few that sell 88.5 octane at Mid-grade prices).

At current cost of $4.37 a gallon for regular one mile costs me 33 cents to drive, at $4.47 for mid-grade one mile costs 28 cents to drive, so I save a nickel every mile.

Impeach Chief Rat Roberts now!

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post #13 of 113 Old 08-17-2008, 01:35 AM
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One time i acciedently filled up on 91 on a 5s-fe. I was pissed but i noticed the fuel guage dropped a lot slower. It all depends on the engine. The 5s-fe isnt designed for high octane gas but using it increases gas milage.

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post #14 of 113 Old 08-17-2008, 12:05 PM
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On my 1MZ-FE I saw a drop in gas mileage when I filled up with premium. On one tank it could be just random chance.
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post #15 of 113 Old 08-17-2008, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rty View Post
On my 1MZ-FE I saw a drop in gas mileage when I filled up with premium. On one tank it could be just random chance.
Samething happened to me. I'm gonna reset the ecu on my 1mz-fe and then keep running it on 91. So far i have refilled enough times that all my gas is 91.

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