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post #1 of 14 Old 01-16-2019, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
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Echo not Starting

Hello,

New on this forum. I have a 2003 Echo sedan. No start condition. Battery is new and charged. I can jumper the starter directly from the battery. then it works fine, and I drive to work. I am a little tired of opening the hood to start the car. I have un packed the wiring harness from the starter solenoid back to the underwood fusebox. No broken or damaged wire that I can see. I have tried a spare starter relay. Not the problem, unless the spare and the original are defective. I have a FSM but there is no full electrical diagram in it. Is there a link to an electronic version? On the weekend, I will be locating my multimeter and doing further investigations. I will check the clutch pedal switch and probably the ignition switch itself. Any advice is welcome. I am fairly good mechanically, but troubleshooting electrical and electronics is challenging.
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post #2 of 14 Old 01-16-2019, 05:49 AM
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Probably the clutch pedal switch. Easy to prove, just unplug it and jump! If it cranks you have found your problem.
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post #3 of 14 Old 01-16-2019, 09:52 AM
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Ground wire from the battery to chassis to engine? the rocking of the engine can break the ground wire over time preventing the starter from kicking on...

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post #4 of 14 Old 01-16-2019, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
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Cheers. Yes, on the weekend I will check the clutch switch and re-check the grounds. I checked grounds on Sunday but it was dark. I'm hoping to avoid taking the ignition switch apart, or unravelling the rest of the engine harness.
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post #5 of 14 Old 01-19-2019, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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Ok. disconnected the clutch switch and jumped the plug. Nothing. No start. Checked continuity on the switch. Seemed to be as FSM says. Checked grounds. All look fine, unless I'm missing a ground. Will re-check on Sunday. Pulled ignition switch. Couldn't find any loose connections or broken wires. Can't see inside the white plastic contact housing. I've had those things fail before. I might try to get another one at a wrecker, just to try. Will probably dig into the wiring harness on Sunday as well. Any other ideas or suggestions are most welcome.
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post #6 of 14 Old 01-19-2019, 08:24 PM
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Test light from batt negative (at batt) to starter positive (ign switch circuit), power yes or no?

If yes then check grounds. Try testing for voltage drops, if cleaning obvious connections does not work. Look for voltage along circuits, bad connection will give you voltage where it should not exist, indicating bad connection. Start with batt cables and work

I have just about everything for an echo including a complete ignition switch with key. Spare parts for mine and my granddaughter's two Echos.
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post #7 of 14 Old 01-19-2019, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, I will try that tomorrow. Wouldn't I need a helper to turn ignition switch to start while checking for power to starter?
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post #8 of 14 Old 01-19-2019, 08:50 PM
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Or a pair of vise grips, holding the key in the start position. If it works every time when you jump power to the connection at the starter then the grounds are probably OK. Most likely you have a bad connection somewhere in the ign switch to starter circuit. Next step would be the ign switch checking for power in and out.

The objective is to find where the power is no longer available along the circuit. Divide the circuit in half and check until you find the dead spot in the circuit, then reduce the distance, going back towards the source of power, where the dead spot is until you have it isolated. A DVOM or test light will work if the problem is in the power to the starter path, On grounds it's probably better to look for a voltage with a DVOM.
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post #9 of 14 Old 01-20-2019, 02:15 AM Thread Starter
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That's what I was thinking. I will try the vise grip or a helper. I think the grounds are all good, unless there is one I can't see, or a break inside the connector, which happened once on my truck. I'm using a test light and my multimeter, but auto electric is my second worst skill. Is there any possibility that something is wrong with the anti-theft thing with the key? Little black circular thing? It does not show up in the FSM wiring diagram for the starting circuit.
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post #10 of 14 Old 01-20-2019, 06:36 AM
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Unplug ignition switch, jump the hot wire to the start wire at the switch connector with the clutch switch jumped. If that sends send power to the starter, then you know the switch if bad. Also, does this car have an alarm system? That can cause a no crank/start.
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post #11 of 14 Old 01-20-2019, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, I ran test light between batt neg and starter small wire. No power with key cranked to start. Drove to wrecker and got another ignition switch. $14 and it is newer. Got home, plugged it in, still no start. Pretty sure both switches would not be defective. Leading suspect is now the antitheft start circuit. No sign of this thing in the FSM, but it is connected to an poem Toyota relay or ? under the dash. It has a little button on it, like a reset button. Probably be another week before I get back to digging in the harness. I would not mind disabling or removing the antitheft. Not worried about the Echo being stolen. I noticed the other Echos at the wrecker did not have the same antitheft setup.
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post #12 of 14 Old 01-21-2019, 06:18 AM
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Sounds like you found the problem. Remove the alarm. It uses line taps, just unplug them, unplug it where it goes into the main ignition harness, plug the ignition harness back together. You may have to splice a wire or two back together but, it is usually no big deal to take those out. Just follow the wires and be sure you are not cutting anything you shouldn't.
.
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post #13 of 14 Old 01-21-2019, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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broke the alternator V-belt on the way to work. Towed home. Dealing with belt before starter issue. Will look further into the antitheft thing later this week.
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post #14 of 14 Old 01-26-2019, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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Success. Belt replaced on Monday. should look at my belts more often. I think it was the original, as I went through all the records from the PO and found no record of belt replacement. 300 000 k on a belt is amazing.

Part 2. Went out and took the dash apart. Traced anti theft back to little box marked "key counter". Unplugged several little plugs from that, and viola, back to full starting. Not too happy about this little black box costing so much diagnosis and circuit fault tracing. thanks for all the suggestions and help.
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