03 Echo Manual Transmission noise - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
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post #1 of 9 Old 02-10-2019, 11:15 PM Thread Starter
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03 Echo Manual Transmission noise

2003 Toyota Echo 150,000mi Manual Transmission.



So I recently had all 4 wheel bearings replaced due to noise.


Now that the bearings are quiet, I can now hear a rumbling/grinding noise from the transmission. It's loudest with a load, like accelerating or decelerating while in gear and quieter when at constant speed.



When the clutch pedal is pressed in, the sound goes away.



My first thought was the throw out bearing. But the load on the throw out bearing is when the clutch pedal is pressed in.



So where is the noise coming from?
Are there any other tests that I can conduct for troubleshooting purposes?


Sincerely


CE
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post #2 of 9 Old 02-10-2019, 11:30 PM
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- does your car have a pilot bearing?














?

1995 2.2L Camry 5sfe engine
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post #3 of 9 Old 02-11-2019, 01:07 AM Thread Starter
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Honestly not sure.



I thought a pilot bearing would make MORE noise when the clutch pedal is fully pressed in.



CE
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post #4 of 9 Old 04-26-2019, 03:08 PM
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Neither of mine had a pilot bearing. the one that had a bad transmission had a REALLY BAD transmission. The rear countershaft bearing had come apart, which basically locked the ring pinion gear. You could not turn both front wheels the same direction, had to go in opposite directions for the car to move. I kept the old front cover assembly from the bad tranny, the rear and everything else was basically toast as the bad bearing had come apart, with shaft misalignment of close to 1 inch which locked the shaft up.

You might be able to replace the bad bearing and get lucky, but I had a spare transmission and just replaced the assembly. The front bearings are roller bearings, while the rear are ball bearings. You can pull the sheet metal cover off the rear of the transmission and might be able to see an issue with the bearings, you could with mine as the shaft alignment was so bad the end gear had chewed some of one of the plate mounting bolts head away.
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post #5 of 9 Old 04-29-2019, 07:19 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Old Mechanic View Post
Neither of mine had a pilot bearing. the one that had a bad transmission had a REALLY BAD transmission. The rear countershaft bearing had come apart, which basically locked the ring pinion gear. You could not turn both front wheels the same direction, had to go in opposite directions for the car to move. I kept the old front cover assembly from the bad tranny, the rear and everything else was basically toast as the bad bearing had come apart, with shaft misalignment of close to 1 inch which locked the shaft up.

You might be able to replace the bad bearing and get lucky, but I had a spare transmission and just replaced the assembly. The front bearings are roller bearings, while the rear are ball bearings. You can pull the sheet metal cover off the rear of the transmission and might be able to see an issue with the bearings, you could with mine as the shaft alignment was so bad the end gear had chewed some of one of the plate mounting bolts head away.
I really appreciate the input.
Sadly, the transmission completely failed a month or so ago and replacement manual transmissions are more expensive than automatic transmissions and very difficult to find.

Due to the lack of time and resources, the Echo was sold.

Too bad, but it was time to move on.
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post #6 of 9 Old 04-29-2019, 07:34 AM
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Thanks for the update, here is a way to diagnose transmission internal bearing issues and it's basically foolproof.

Go 30 mph in top gear, turn engine off with clutch pedal on the floor and keep it there until the test is over.

As you slow down, downshift to the lower gears when speed is appropriate, where you might normally downshift.

If there is a bearing failing inside the transmission, then you will hear the noise and it will get worse as you downshift.

Nothing else is turning with the engine off and clutch depressed. The clutch disc is spinning between the pressure plate and flywheel but the throwout bearing is stationary, only internal transmission bearings are still rotating. Worked 100% for me is diagnosing bad transmission bearings, which is critical since when they come apart the transmission should NOT be rebuilt.
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post #7 of 9 Old 04-29-2019, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse View Post
I really appreciate the input.
Sadly, the transmission completely failed a month or so ago and replacement manual transmissions are more expensive than automatic transmissions and very difficult to find.

Due to the lack of time and resources, the Echo was sold.

Too bad, but it was time to move on.
Thank you for the update.

So stick, no pun, with Auto equipped ECHOs
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post #8 of 9 Old 05-03-2019, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zythr View Post
Thank you for the update.

So stick, no pun, with Auto equipped ECHOs
Um.... With limited data, I would steer toward "yes"

I am a life long driver of Toyotas and manual transmissions and stick (sorry) with them since cars with them are $1000 cheaper to purchase (new and used) and typically last longer and are more efficient. So to steer people away from a manual transmission pains me. However, due to the reliability of the Echo's automatic transmission and their massive availability, and my recent experience with the manual, combined with the lack of availability of manual transmission replacements I have to say, go Automatic Transmission.
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post #9 of 9 Old 05-04-2019, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse View Post
Um.... With limited data, I would steer toward "yes"

I am a life long driver of Toyotas and manual transmissions and stick (sorry) with them since cars with them are $1000 cheaper to purchase (new and used) and typically last longer and are more efficient. So to steer people away from a manual transmission pains me. However, due to the reliability of the Echo's automatic transmission and their massive availability, and my recent experience with the manual, combined with the lack of availability of manual transmission replacements I have to say, go Automatic Transmission.


Good to know thanks
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