going from OE 17" to aftermarket 18" - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
Avalon 4th Generation (2013-2018) Specific discussion of the fourth generation Toyota Avalon

 7Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 Old 06-20-2019, 05:35 AM Thread Starter
New TN User
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
going from OE 17" to aftermarket 18"

Will be needed a new set of tires in the future.
Thinking of going to 18" wheels @ the time.


Going from 17" to 18" other then adjusted to a lower proffile does anything else need to be done?
Would just going to 18" look akward with a wheel gap?
Do lowered springs need to be added?


Or would just a straight swap from 17" to 18" look fine?
Hybridgrl92 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 Old 06-20-2019, 07:16 AM
PJSMITH
 
pjsmithres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,435
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 343 Post(s)
Thanks: 10
Thanked 107 Times in 93 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
if done correctly, you would choose tire size from the hybrid to the V6 OEM size. You CAN put any size tire that fits in the wheel well but you will change the dynamic if geometry of how the car will drive, the speedo and probably other factors of ride and performance. Given same diameter/circumference there should be little or no difference in the look at the wheel well and performance should be fine.
The lower profile of the sidewall of the 18" tires is a look. Generally the sidewall will be shorter/lower. This reduces the cushion/suspension of the tire.
There are many threads here about "ride quality" and the difference of 17 v 18 inch wheels. Generally a softer ride with 17 and harsher ride with 18's.
A good tire shop (Tire Rack/Discount tire/American Tire) should be able to advise you.

I would ask the question of what are you trying to do with the tire/wheel change?
A "look" will sacrifice the ride comfort and maneuverability/performance. you want a stiffer ride? You want an lower profile tire?
What is the end result desired?

Phil

2014 Avalon Hybrid Limited (TECH) 75K miles
2012 Volvo S60 T5 (Pumpkin)
2005 Triumph Rocket III

Completely Retired
pjsmithres is offline  
post #3 of 22 Old 06-20-2019, 08:04 AM
Official TN Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 865
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 200 Post(s)
Thanks: 26
Thanked 161 Times in 128 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hybridgrl92 View Post
Will be needed a new set of tires in the future.
Thinking of going to 18" wheels @ the time.


Going from 17" to 18" other then adjusted to a lower proffile does anything else need to be done?
Would just going to 18" look akward with a wheel gap?
Do lowered springs need to be added?


Or would just a straight swap from 17" to 18" look fine?
There is nothing radical about 18 inch wheels on a 4th generation Avalon, as many models, including my 2013 Limited V6, came from the factory equipped with them. As Phil pointed out, you can expect a stiffer ride, perhaps slightly improved handling and, in some eyes, a “cooler” look. Curb rash on wheels is often an extra feature.

Robert N.
pjsmithres, Kadena and John in FL like this.

2013 Avalon Limited V6 with Tech Package
robnich is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 22 Old 06-20-2019, 11:44 PM
Official TN Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 479
Blog Entries: 1
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 21 Times in 20 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
The region you live in also might affect your decision. If you are commuting to/in any major city in the rust belt, potholes will make your drive uncomfortable, and potentially expensive (bent wheels)

This is a perfect example of why posting your location impacts the discussion.
John in FL likes this.

2014 AvalonHybrid Limited
2015 Nissan Leaf S
2013 Ford CMax SEL
2017 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium

Last edited by pianewman; 06-21-2019 at 02:16 AM.
pianewman is offline  
post #5 of 22 Old 06-23-2019, 01:37 PM
Official TN Member
 
WizardOfBoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Near Philly, PA
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Thanks: 5
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
As you point out, to preserve design conditions (axle position, wheel camber, speedometer and odometer accuracy), you need to adjust sidewall size down to preserve the overall wheel diameter. Bigger rims mean lower sidewalls mean less ability to handle shock, so the suspension must be up to the task. Also, if you electronically adjustable suspension you may want to see if this needs to be adjusted. Also, to preserve ride you might want to see if other have changed springs and such.



We just bought a used 2018 Premium (17 inch wheels). We chose it over a 2016 Touring. Both great cars. We chose the 2018 primarily for the Toyota Safety Sense, but also specifically to avoid the 18 wheels in the touring. Read all the reviews, but most reports state that bigger rims may give you marginally better performance, and the will give you a stiffer ride, and the are mostly chosen for aesthetic reasons. They do look spiffier (IMHO) than the smaller diameter rims. In some comparisons, the dry pavement performance of larger rims is very slightly better (but in the wet, the 17 inch rims rule).

To preserve a lot of the car's design performance of the vehicle you must keep the same overall tire diameter. So a larger rim means a smaller sidewall. This means that the tire has less ability to absorb shock. Also, I suspect that the lower sidewall, with the same tire width, means that you have to have a stiffer tire casing (otherwise, the tread section would balloon out and you'd end up with a larger effective tire diameter - and larger sidewalls, effectively).

So you have the tire absorbing less shock. What makes up for this? Well, first you have a stiffer ride. I guess if you are steering through chicanes at 110 mph, that's maybe what you want. IMHO, the standard 17 inch rims give a ride in the Avalon that's plenty stiff, and they give good handling. But to soften the ride for 18 inch rims, the suspension has to absorb more energy. So bigger rims beat the suspension up more. I would suspect that Toyota uses a slightly different suspension for the larger rims. Or at least different tuning. Different springs? I'd check up on these things. A car is a system, and changing one element (rims and tires) to improve some aspects of performance may not jibe with the tuning (suspension, steering, etc).

Last, I think that low profile tires are more expensive to replace.

Car and Driver did a test of different size wheels in 2010. Pretty much no advantage either way as shown in their chart. See here. 18 inch rims gave marginally better (5 ft in 133 ft total) braking distance.

Tyre Review did a test, too. Mixed results. 19 inch had better dry roadhandling. But 17 inch were better on wet pavement. See here. They did say that on the vehicle tested, they preferred 18 inchers.

2018 Avalon XLE Premium

2014 HL LE Plus. With, like, zero options...
Wait! It has a chrome bumper protector!

Last edited by WizardOfBoz; 06-23-2019 at 01:44 PM.
WizardOfBoz is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to WizardOfBoz For This Useful Post:
Shortstop2014!! (06-24-2019)
post #6 of 22 Old 06-23-2019, 01:44 PM
Official TN Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Ft. Worth, TX
Posts: 479
Blog Entries: 1
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 21 Times in 20 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
We just bought a used 2018 Premium (17 inch wheels). We chose it over a 2016 Touring. Both great cars. We chose the 2018 primarily for the Toyota Safety Sense, but also specifically to avoid the 18 wheels. As I understand it, the 18 inch wheels are usually chosen for looks. They do look spiffier (IMHO) than the smaller diameter rims. In some comparisons, the dry pavement performance of larger rims is better (but in the wet, the 17 inch rims rule).



To preserve a lot of the car's design performance of the vehicle you must keep the same overall tire diameter. So a larger rim means a smaller sidewall. This means that the tire has less ability to absorb shock. Also, I suspect that the lower sidewall, with the same tire width, means that you have to have a stiffer tire casing (otherwise, the tread section would balloon out and you'd end up with a larger effective tire diameter - and larger sidewalls, effectively).



So you have the wheel absorbing less shock. What makes up for this? Well, first you have a stiffer ride. I guess if you are steering through chicanes at 110 mph, that's maybe what you want. IMHO, the standard 17 inch rims give a ride that's plenty stiff, and they give good handling. But to soften the ride for 18 inch rims, the suspension has to absorb more energy. So bigger rims beat the suspension up more. I would suspect that Toyota uses a slightly different suspension for the larger rims. Or at least different tuning. Different springs? I'd check up on these things. A car is a system, and changing one element (rims and tires) to improve some aspects of performance may not jibe with the tuning (suspension, steering, etc).



Last, I think that low profile tires are more expensive to replace.



Car and Driver did a test of different size wheels in 2010. Pretty much no advantage either way as shown in their chart. See here. 18 inch rims gave marginally better (5 ft in 133 ft total) braking distance.



Tyre Review did a test, too. Mixed results. 19 inch had better dry roadhandling. But 17 inch were better on wet pavement. See here. They did say that on the vehicle tested, they preferred 18 inchers.
Very clear post, but...there's no way a mass-produced Toyota (or any mainstream car, for that matter!) changes suspension parts to accommodate different diameter wheels. The ONLY thing they do is make certain tire diameter is the same, to keep electronics/odometer etc. consistent.

2014 AvalonHybrid Limited
2015 Nissan Leaf S
2013 Ford CMax SEL
2017 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium
pianewman is offline  
post #7 of 22 Old 06-23-2019, 02:47 PM
Official TN Member
 
WizardOfBoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Near Philly, PA
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Thanks: 5
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by pianewman View Post
Very clear post, but...there's no way a mass-produced Toyota (or any mainstream car, for that matter!) changes suspension parts to accommodate different diameter wheels. The ONLY thing they do is make certain tire diameter is the same, to keep electronics/odometer etc. consistent.
Not sure. They're bolting different parts (at least wheels) onto the Lmtd and Touring editions, so why not different springs, etc. I'm an engineer, and while what you say makes a lot of sense there would be a lot of reasons to use different suspension parts for the larger wheels. Higher forces, need to absorb more shock, different resonant frequencies, etc.

At least one report states that (for 2018) "Notable standard features in the Avalon Touring ($37,900) include premium leather upholstery, upgraded wood trim, LED headlights, a touring-grade suspension system, and larger wheels." In ToyotaSpeak, "Touring" means sporty, at least for the Avalon. Luxurious translates to the Limited version, which doesn't list the touring suspension. I'm not sure if "touring grade" means that they put a different spring that has as different length or spring constant, or even different geometry suspension parts.

The 2019s have something called adaptive variable suspension. So the use electronically modulated shocks to change the ride characteristics. Brilliant. I just bought a used 2018. Wish I could have afforded a 2019, with AVS. In the high-volume production environment you mention, this is how I would design in suspension differences. You could then program the right suspension into each car's ystem software rather than have the guys and gals on the line bolting in different parts for different models.

I don't have the time now to look up part numbers for the XLE/Plus/Premium (17 in rims) and the touring and lmtd(18 inchers). That would be more definitive than my opinion.

2018 Avalon XLE Premium

2014 HL LE Plus. With, like, zero options...
Wait! It has a chrome bumper protector!

Last edited by WizardOfBoz; 06-23-2019 at 02:54 PM.
WizardOfBoz is offline  
post #8 of 22 Old 06-23-2019, 11:12 PM
Official TN Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Nature Coast, Florida
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Thanks: 8
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
Not sure. They're bolting different parts (at least wheels) onto the Lmtd and Touring editions, so why not different springs, etc. I'm an engineer, and while what you say makes a lot of sense there would be a lot of reasons to use different suspension parts for the larger wheels. Higher forces, need to absorb more shock, different resonant frequencies, etc.

At least one report states that (for 2018) "Notable standard features in the Avalon Touring ($37,900) include premium leather upholstery, upgraded wood trim, LED headlights, a touring-grade suspension system, and larger wheels." In ToyotaSpeak, "Touring" means sporty, at least for the Avalon. Luxurious translates to the Limited version, which doesn't list the touring suspension. I'm not sure if "touring grade" means that they put a different spring that has as different length or spring constant, or even different geometry suspension parts.

The 2019s have something called adaptive variable suspension. So the use electronically modulated shocks to change the ride characteristics. Brilliant. I just bought a used 2018. Wish I could have afforded a 2019, with AVS. In the high-volume production environment you mention, this is how I would design in suspension differences. You could then program the right suspension into each car's ystem software rather than have the guys and gals on the line bolting in different parts for different models.

I don't have the time now to look up part numbers for the XLE/Plus/Premium (17 in rims) and the touring and lmtd(18 inchers). That would be more definitive than my opinion.
Down here in FL, Southeast Toyota (SET) was selling their own trim level Avalons, called XSP. It was basically an add-on accessory package which came with 19" BBS wheels and a bunch of other things (LED DRLs, ground effects, badges, and the like) which were added at the port for another $5K on top of the vehicle price. You could also add this package after the fact to your existing Avalon according to one dealership page I saw online, so clearly nothing was being done at the factory to account for the different wheel size. It's not like they would send them back or retrofit different suspension components when adding the XSP package. I am not sure if they still offer anything like this on current 5th generation Avalons, but I've seen more than a few 4th generation cars out there on the road as well as on dealer lots.

http://mobile.accessories.setbuyatoy...s/XX2000/69345

2014 Avalon XLE Premium
Oh La La Rouge Mica (Almond)
Remote Start, Paint Protection, Rear Bumper Applique, Lower Body Moldings, Painted Mudguards

Last edited by John in FL; 06-23-2019 at 11:18 PM.
John in FL is offline  
post #9 of 22 Old 06-24-2019, 07:17 AM
New TN User
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Thanks: 8
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardOfBoz View Post
Not sure. They're bolting different parts (at least wheels) onto the Lmtd and Touring editions, so why not different springs, etc. I'm an engineer, and while what you say makes a lot of sense there would be a lot of reasons to use different suspension parts for the larger wheels. Higher forces, need to absorb more shock, different resonant frequencies, etc.

At least one report states that (for 2018) "Notable standard features in the Avalon Touring ($37,900) include premium leather upholstery, upgraded wood trim, LED headlights, a touring-grade suspension system, and larger wheels." In ToyotaSpeak, "Touring" means sporty, at least for the Avalon. Luxurious translates to the Limited version, which doesn't list the touring suspension. I'm not sure if "touring grade" means that they put a different spring that has as different length or spring constant, or even different geometry suspension parts.

The 2019s have something called adaptive variable suspension. So the use electronically modulated shocks to change the ride characteristics. Brilliant. I just bought a used 2018. Wish I could have afforded a 2019, with AVS. In the high-volume production environment you mention, this is how I would design in suspension differences. You could then program the right suspension into each car's ystem software rather than have the guys and gals on the line bolting in different parts for different models.

I don't have the time now to look up part numbers for the XLE/Plus/Premium (17 in rims) and the touring and lmtd(18 inchers). That would be more definitive than my opinion.
I think you made the right choice if you wanted the best comfort ride out of a 2018 Avalon. The Touring and Limited with 18 inch wheels do ride harder and probably have stiffer suspensions. If the newer 2019 with A.V.S. is anything like the Lexus 430 with the air struts. They cost thousands to replace for a keeper.
Shortstop2014!! is offline  
post #10 of 22 Old 06-24-2019, 07:55 AM
Official TN Member
 
WizardOfBoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Near Philly, PA
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Thanks: 5
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by John in FL View Post
Down here in FL, Southeast Toyota (SET) was selling their own trim level Avalons, called XSP. It was basically an add-on accessory package which came with 19" BBS wheels and a bunch of other things (LED DRLs, ground effects, badges, and the like) [...] You could also add this package after the fact to your existing Avalon according to one dealership page I saw online, so clearly nothing was being done at the factory to account for the different wheel size. It's not like they would send them back or retrofit different suspension components when adding the XSP package.[...]

Interesting. Commerce, supplying a demand.



The rule I read was that you probably can move up or down one wheel size without screwing up the suspension too much. So maybe Toyota designed for "17.5 wheels" and the design was good to go for either 17 or 18. I'd be loath to go up to 19 inch without changing at least the shocks and springs. Those big rims would beat the heck out of normal shocks, and given that the wheel is stiffer I think you'd want to go with a lower spring rate to avoid your fillings being shaken out. And a softer spring might defeat the handling goals of adding the larger rims! Wow. Also, the testing showed that wet steering with the 19 inch rims is impaired, at least in the test car which was not an Avalon. As pointed out above, the larger rims do add stiffness to the ride. IMHO the stock 17 inch rims are already set up plenty stiff. Going to 18 inch makes the ride stiffer. And 19 inch? Maybe if I were 30 and had a resilient, 30 YO tuchus again, I'd be more sporty. Now I'm just boring!

2018 Avalon XLE Premium

2014 HL LE Plus. With, like, zero options...
Wait! It has a chrome bumper protector!
WizardOfBoz is offline  
post #11 of 22 Old 06-25-2019, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
New TN User
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
Wow.
I didn't realize this post would get this much attention.
Thanks everyone.


Why was I looking @ 18". Simply for cosmetic reasons. I don't want to be a "balla" but I was thinking some simple clean 18" would make it look a little sportier.
However......
I would not change the diameter of the tire/rim combo. It would stay the same as with the current OE 17"'s. That's what my primary concern was. Even if I go 18" and keep the same diameter would it look akward?

You know you see some cars go with bigger rims but keep the same overall wheel diameter as from the factory but it looks weird and can sometimes have a gap and make it look like its gonna go off roading.


This post and a handful of articles/videos are steering my away from the 18".
Mainly because this is a family car. Used for the family. So comfort and safety are #1.
Here in the midwest we can sometimes have some crazy heavy rainfalls. So tires that excel in wet conditions are #1.
So ( in general ) if 17"s.......... mean safer, less tire noise, less $, more comfort & better performance in rain then it's an easy decision for me to go with 17"s.


And my next set of tires will be dedicated summer tires that excel in wet conditions.
I'm a blizzak guy. We have blizzaks on 4 of our cars and I bought a set for my parents. These things are amazing in the snow.
Pricey yes. But for what you get in return its an easy decision.


*** We live in the upper midwest
Hybridgrl92 is offline  
post #12 of 22 Old 06-25-2019, 11:57 PM
New TN User
 
lE5QE0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Missouri
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
I run 3 seasons on 225/45R18's (aluminum rims) and winter on 215/60R16's (steel rims).... best of both worlds on my '13 Touring. The difference between them is minimal at only +/- 0.8%. Speedometer difference of about 0.5 mph at 60mph. You'd get as much difference in new vs worn tires keeping the same rims/tires anyway. 100 miles on odometer equates to 100.8 miles with the larger diameter snow setup per specs. I think it's negligible.

Yes, 18's are a little stiffer but they corner much better in the dry and yes, they look better IMHO. I just prefer a more forgiving/pothole friendly snow specific tire for winter months.

I think for most people, the 17's are the best all-around option.

2013 Toyota Avalon XLE Touring
lE5QE0 is online now  
post #13 of 22 Old 06-26-2019, 07:17 PM
New TN User
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Thanks: 8
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
I went the other way. From 18 inch to 17 after two sidewall bubbles on Yokohamas 225 45 18 W 7.5 rims from Jersey potholes at 65 plus.
It does ride a little bit softer. But lost a little bit in cornering, and feels a little less planted at highway speeds. The V and W speed rated tires make a difference in the ride and handling. My next choice for tires will be something like a 225 55 17 with a H speed rating for a softer ride if I can fit a 225 on a 7 inch rim safely. There is always some trade off with wheels and tires. I prefer a softer ride. I bought a Avalon not a Corvette, I see some new Camry` s with 35 sidewalls. Good luck with them!
Shortstop2014!! is offline  
post #14 of 22 Old 06-26-2019, 09:15 PM
Official TN Member
 
WizardOfBoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Near Philly, PA
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Thanks: 5
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Another variable: pressure

So I ride bicycles, and there's always a lively discussion about tire pressure. When we got the car from the dealer, the wheels were all pressurized up to 38 or so. Nominally, they're supposed to be 32-33 I think. Something like that. This HAS to make a difference in ride and handling. What pressure have folks felt is best with 17 rims?



In cycling, bigger tires are run with less pressure. Here, though, the sidewalls aer smaller on 18 rims, so I would think you'd be forced to run 18s at higher pressure to avoid a pothole damaging the rim. What does experience with these tires suggest?

2018 Avalon XLE Premium

2014 HL LE Plus. With, like, zero options...
Wait! It has a chrome bumper protector!
WizardOfBoz is offline  
post #15 of 22 Old 06-27-2019, 10:22 AM
BeerSteakTxas
 
molson.david's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Intersection of Steak Ave. and Beer St.
Posts: 10,371
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Thanks: 467
Thanked 1,195 Times in 1,005 Posts
Lifetime Supreme Member
iTrader Score: 8 reviews
I was looking to switch to 18", but decided to keep 17's due to higher 18" tires prices and lower selection. I got a set of Defenders T+H 225/55/17, they filled up wheel wells much nicer than stock size. The Defenders ware not my first choice, but cuz of Michelin premature wear replacement policy, I couldn't go with another brand. Per my calculations 235/55/17 most likely would fit as well, but such tall walls would look to SUV-ish imo.
I'm running 41 PSI front 38 back per tire pressure "screen" (my air pump shows 40-37) and combined with wider contact patch and stiffer walls it improved cornering and I don't feel any drop in comfort.
Also, tire pressure depends on the tire model and specs and has very little to do with Toyota suggested PSI or wall ratio. 32-33 PSI is too low even for stock size 44 max PSI rated tires and thee are 51 max PSI tires.

2017 Avalon XLE premium
molson.david is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to molson.david For This Useful Post:
Shortstop2014!! (06-27-2019)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums > Toyota Passenger and Sports Car Forums > Avalon Forum > Avalon 4th Generation (2013-2018)

Bookmarks

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome