2014 P0300 misfires on entire bank - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
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post #1 of 50 Old 02-10-2019, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
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SOLVED: Per Toyota dealership, broken valve spring on cylinder #5. $5,400 repair estimate.

2014 Limited with 75k miles. Check engine light and Trac off lights come on, accompanied by rough engine and loss of power. Error codes indicate:

P0300 - misfire
P0301 - misfire in cylinder #1 (edited/added after obtaining freeze frame data since original post)
P0303 - misfire in cylinder #3
P0305 - misfire in cylinder #5

I know number of things can cause misfire, but main culprit is usually bad ignition coil on a spark plug. As luck would have it, spark parks #1, #3 and #5 are on the backside of the engine near the firewall. In other words, PITA to get to. Before I take apart the intake plenum, etc, Iím wondering what the real cause of the misfire is. It would be a huge coincidence for three coils to go bad at the same exact time. What could cause an entire bank to go bad? Oil in the spark plugs? Any ideas?

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Last edited by sijaz; 02-26-2019 at 11:30 PM. Reason: Added resolution info
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post #2 of 50 Old 02-11-2019, 07:44 AM
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Plugs or coil-overs are the most likely culprits. But that's awfully short mileage for the plugs or coils to be bad.


Is it happening a lot.


Before you spend the time getting to the back plugs, pull one of the front plugs. That might give you clue. Usually spark plugs wear out at close to the same rate.
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post #3 of 50 Old 02-11-2019, 07:46 AM
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Sometimes the one error reading can throw off the other.
How have you done your maintenance thus far?

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post #4 of 50 Old 02-11-2019, 08:56 AM
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The P03xx codes are the beginning of the story. In addition there is wealth of data in the Freezeframe like fuel trim and the actual number of misfires per cylinder that were recorded that will help you understand where to start. It could be cam timing (OCV) - especially when you get more than one cylinder in the bank acting up.

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post #5 of 50 Old 02-11-2019, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
It could be cam timing (OCV)

Cam timing? How? Only way that can happen is if the chain jumps time. And it then would be happening all the time. It doesn't fix itself. It would need to be fixed.


It could be a cam sensor, but that would be a different error code.
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post #6 of 50 Old 02-11-2019, 09:17 AM
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If this was my car the FIRST thing I would do is put a bottle of Techron in the tank and drive it at least 200 miles, then see what you have. Otherwise you COULD spend time and money and eventually find out the injectors were slightly out of balance due to the accumulation of deposits.

The first step in a diagnostic process is to eliminate the simplest possibility, it can't get any easier than pouring Chevron Techron in the tank and driving the car. I would not recommend any other injector cleaner, from personal experience I have seen Techron basically wake up virtually dead injectors in my own vehicles.
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post #7 of 50 Old 02-11-2019, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeInNH View Post
Cam timing? How? Only way that can happen is if the chain jumps time. And it then would be happening all the time. It doesn't fix itself. It would need to be fixed.

It could be a cam sensor, but that would be a different error code.
Somebody needs to read up on computer controlled Variable Valve Timing (VVTi), and all of the problems that this system can induce when it skips a beat.

Attached is a page from the factory service manual on the 2GR-FE engine introducing the topic, as you don't sound familiar with how it works.

The system on the new 2GR-FKS can shift timing so dramatically (VVTi Wide) that it can cross the line between zones of the stroke, making the engine act like an Atkinson-like variable displacement mill. That would be like the timing chain jumping, oh, a half dozen teeth?

I had cam timing issues on my 2008 Sienna (same engine) and experienced occasional 2 or 3 cylinder on the same bank misfires, and only sometimes did I get a cam position code to go along with it. It is highly dependent on severity and duration. Again, the detailed freezeframe data tells far more than just a numeric Pxxxx code.
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post #8 of 50 Old 02-11-2019, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MikeInNH View Post
Plugs or coil-overs are the most likely culprits. But that's awfully short mileage for the plugs or coils to be bad.


Is it happening a lot.


Before you spend the time getting to the back plugs, pull one of the front plugs. That might give you clue. Usually spark plugs wear out at close to the same rate.
Yes, it is happening consistently. Sometimes on idle, the engine will stall. Good idea to check one of the front plugs to see what's going on. Just unusual that 2 cylinders showing this code at the same time.

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post #9 of 50 Old 02-11-2019, 12:52 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Old Mechanic View Post
If this was my car the FIRST thing I would do is put a bottle of Techron in the tank and drive it at least 200 miles, then see what you have. Otherwise you COULD spend time and money and eventually find out the injectors were slightly out of balance due to the accumulation of deposits.

The first step in a diagnostic process is to eliminate the simplest possibility, it can't get any easier than pouring Chevron Techron in the tank and driving the car. I would not recommend any other injector cleaner, from personal experience I have seen Techron basically wake up virtually dead injectors in my own vehicles.
Worth a try i guess, but I read elsewhere that driving with misfiring cylinders you risk messing up the catalytic convertor and other sensors.

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post #10 of 50 Old 02-11-2019, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Fibber2 View Post
Somebody needs to read up on computer controlled Variable Valve Timing (VVTi), and all of the problems that this system can induce when it skips a beat.

Attached is a page from the factory service manual on the 2GR-FE engine introducing the topic, as you don't sound familiar with how it works.

The system on the new 2GR-FKS can shift timing so dramatically (VVTi Wide) that it can cross the line between zones of the stroke, making the engine act like an Atkinson-like variable displacement mill. That would be like the timing chain jumping, oh, a half dozen teeth?

I had cam timing issues on my 2008 Sienna (same engine) and experienced occasional 2 or 3 cylinder on the same bank misfires, and only sometimes did I get a cam position code to go along with it. It is highly dependent on severity and duration. Again, the detailed freezeframe data tells far more than just a numeric Pxxxx code.
I'm assuming AutoZone and the like don't provide freezframe data -- can I get this myself somehow or do I need to visit a shop? The misfire is persistent....after engine starts up, it's ok for a few seconds, then starts to misfire, run rough, low idle, occasional stalling. Again, the error codes are consistently pulling up P0303 and P0305....so 2 cylinders - which suggests to me there is something else other than a rouge spark plug or coil.

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post #11 of 50 Old 02-11-2019, 03:36 PM
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Somebody needs to read up on computer controlled Variable Valve Timing (VVTi), and all of the problems that this system can induce when it skips a beat.

I have, and from what I've read a VVT error will be completely different errors.
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post #12 of 50 Old 02-11-2019, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeInNH View Post
I have, and from what I've read a VVT error will be completely different errors.
The VVT oil control solenoids can fail with out setting a code. They can do this from dirty oil or, other reasons. I have removed them from engines, bench tested them and they showed to be good only to set misfires when re-installed. The fix was to replace it with a new part. There may be an updated version. Usually a bad oil control solenoid will cause misfires on all cylinders in whatever bank it is in.
Now, I am not saying that is the problem in this case. There are lots of things that can cause a misfire. Ignition, fuel, vacuum leaks, mechanical issues, just to name a few.
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post #13 of 50 Old 02-11-2019, 08:12 PM
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sijaz...need full description on each DTC (diagnostic trouble code) IDK, just thinking code could list other reasons to cause misfire, not just splug. U can try goog for those codes? Good luck.

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post #14 of 50 Old 02-11-2019, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeInNH View Post
I have, and from what I've read a VVT error will be completely different errors.
Then keep reading! You've now heard it from two of us. We don't know if this is the OP's situation, as we lack all the data required to go further. But any time I see more than one cylinders in the same bank throwing misfire codes at the same time, my experience with VVTi issues makes me add this to the list of possibilities.

I did keep some of that old data, so here's an example. Three cylinders in the same bank with different numbers of misfires. Sometimes one of them had so few it didn't register as a unique P030x code. Maybe the OP's situation. Sometimes we got a P0015 or the like (one of the 4 cams overly retarded or advanced), sometimes not. It depended on severity.

Sometimes we got the cam code alone, and zero misfires. Again, it all depends on how far out of phase, and the engine load at the time of the event.

BTW, I bought into the AutoEnginuity desktop PC system back in the serial port hardware days.
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post #15 of 50 Old 02-12-2019, 05:58 AM
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If there's a problem with the VVT cylinder then you'll get an error code associated with it. These diagnostic systems are sophisticated. Yes advanced timing may cause a mis-fire, but if it won't generate a P0303 error code if there's a problem with the VVT unless the VVT is not sending a fault code (very unlikely, but possible).




Let's stick with the most likely causes first.


https://www.fixdapp.com/blog/p0303


https://dannysengineportal.com/varia...i-fault-codes/
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