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post #31 of 45 Old 02-04-2019, 01:05 PM
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post #32 of 45 Old 05-11-2019, 02:02 AM
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post #34 of 45 Old 06-10-2019, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by xpeed View Post
As much as people are crying that it's more of a BMW than a Toyota, the only thing that BMW co-developed with Toyota is the engine, chassis, and infotainment.

The suspensions, interior, body is all developed by Toyota, some using BMW parts as you will notice some BMW stamping on the "arms and bars" of the suspensions.

BMW nor Toyota has test driven each other's cars during development so the engineers do not know how each car performs.

The transmission might be shared but the programming is different from the Z4.

All in all, it does not handle the same as the Z4 would.
It’s a BMW. I could care less what Toyota did to the suspension, GM put Delco alternators in Corollas and Prisms. Doesn’t make them GM cars. BMW platform, engine, interior, built in Austria and not Japan. The VIN with the “Z” and no “T” to signify the manufacturer is the perfect symbol for what a disaster this pig is.

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post #35 of 45 Old 06-10-2019, 05:21 AM
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I don't get it

The original Supras had those super reliable straight sixes. Those were some of the best engines ever built. Bmw engines are OK. Some expensive flaws mostly in peripheral components. So why go there? Must be new generations of execs at Toyota. They may regret it. I hope they re-engineered some of those components. I have owned Supras and BMW. I would not care to buy a new Supre and end up sitting in a BMW interior. I like Toyota for what they are which is very un-bmw. I also think that they are competing with 440 hp C6 and C7 Corvettes.
The Supra will be fun to drive. Maybe the Toyota crowd will embrace it here and in Asia. Get a good warranty!
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post #36 of 45 Old 06-10-2019, 09:11 AM
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For all the naysayers, you'll get your answers as to why Toyota partnered with BMW on the new Supra here:


If you don't care for the overview of the car, go to the index link for his final thoughts:

For the short summary of why if you don't care to watch the video, Toyota doesn't have a current inline 6 to develop and put into the Supra. The development costs to build this platform from scratch would probably cost in excess of $1.5 billion. That doesn't include the tooling needed at the manufacturing factory to build the car.

Here is the live chat he did going over in detail his time at the press launch:


I ran into Mark's videos by accident. I have to say he is one of the best reviewers of cars out there. I respect his opinion more than many so called experts on the Internet. And to tell you how much of a real car guy he is, he backs up his rhetoric with his wallet/actions. While the Toyota 86 wasn't the complete package, he bought one to show his support to Toyota for what they were trying to do. How many of you have voted with your wallets? To expect Toyota to dump tons of money into developing a sports car from scratch with the undeniable shrinking market for sports cars is foolish.
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post #37 of 45 Old 06-10-2019, 09:45 PM
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Wish I was in Tokyo now:


https://jalopnik.com/toyota-brought-...leb-1832228143


Regardless of what enthusiasts think of the new car, this event was phenomenal given all the historic Supras in one place. I'm jealous because my folks have been to Megaweb.


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post #38 of 45 Old 06-11-2019, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
I ran into Mark's videos by accident. I have to say he is one of the best reviewers of cars out there. I respect his opinion more than many so called experts on the Internet. And to tell you how much of a real car guy he is, he backs up his rhetoric with his wallet/actions. While the Toyota 86 wasn't the complete package, he bought one to show his support to Toyota for what they were trying to do. How many of you have voted with your wallets? To expect Toyota to dump tons of money into developing a sports car from scratch with the undeniable shrinking market for sports cars is foolish.
If people can live with M3s and M4s, I can live with the car as is though my biggest qualm about it is that it doesn't offer three pedals.
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post #39 of 45 Old 06-11-2019, 03:27 PM
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post #40 of 45 Old 06-11-2019, 04:06 PM
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I have owned both Supras and Z4s . The older Supra motor was used in racing in the old Firestone Firehawk Sports Car Series with none other than Dan Gurney. That series of motors are still running and some are putting out 1000 hp at the wheels using big turbos. The cars were considered quite heavy but had double wishbone suspension and 50/50 weight distribution. So it was actually quite competitive.
Toyota probably needed a more EPA friendly design and the BMW straight sixes have been undergoing continuous development all these intervening years. It is a silky smooth light weight design. The short block is very light. However back in the 80s when Porsche made well under 300 hp a well driven Supra with a boost controller could have a lot of fun at track events and the reliability was so very good, except for the brakes which were cheap and easy to work on.
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post #41 of 45 Old 06-11-2019, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
I ran into Mark's videos by accident. I have to say he is one of the best reviewers of cars out there. I respect his opinion more than many so called experts on the Internet. And to tell you how much of a real car guy he is, he backs up his rhetoric with his wallet/actions. While the Toyota 86 wasn't the complete package, he bought one to show his support to Toyota for what they were trying to do. How many of you have voted with your wallets? To expect Toyota to dump tons of money into developing a sports car from scratch with the undeniable shrinking market for sports cars is foolish.
If people can live with M3s and M4s, I can live with the car as is though my biggest qualm about it is that it doesn't offer three pedals.
Mark of Savagegeese mentioned he thinks a manual is a possibility in the future for these cars.

Mark also said this platform is likely going to be even better than the M3/4 platforms. His reasoning is the M versions were all built up from a chasis which was never designed as a sports car first. This Supra and the Z4 have been fully developed as a sports car platform first and foremost.
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post #42 of 45 Old 06-11-2019, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Kamry19 View Post
I have owned both Supras and Z4s . The older Supra motor was used in racing in the old Firestone Firehawk Sports Car Series with none other than Dan Gurney. That series of motors are still running and some are putting out 1000 hp at the wheels using big turbos. The cars were considered quite heavy but had double wishbone suspension and 50/50 weight distribution. So it was actually quite competitive.
Toyota probably needed a more EPA friendly design and the BMW straight sixes have been undergoing continuous development all these intervening years. It is a silky smooth light weight design. The short block is very light. However back in the 80s when Porsche made well under 300 hp a well driven Supra with a boost controller could have a lot of fun at track events and the reliability was so very good, except for the brakes which were cheap and easy to work on.
Nostalgia is fine. But it has no place in the current discussion about the latest gen Supra. The videos I posted has answers to everything people are complaining about and speculating on. Mark actually talked to Tada San. He said the cost to resurrect an inline 6 would have cost Toyota $300 million just for the engine development. It had nothing to do with meeting EPA standards. Toyota has no inline 6 period. And all of the tooling at the factories that once produced the inline 6s are gone.

In addition, Mark said Tada San said Toyota had a lot of input over the engine. The engine is a B58. Since I'm over on the BMW forums a lot, I've watched the chatter over the B58. Lots of people are impressed with the motor. Tada San's team tore into the motor and were satisfied with the design and components used. They did provide input on future updates/upgrades to be implemented.

The same goes with the chassis. Tada San said they were a signicant part of the design team.

Frankly, I feel Toyota's version has the leg up for me being a fixed hard top. If I were in the market for a $50k sports car, the Supra would be high on the list and may get my pick over the M2. This is coming from an owner of an E82 135i.
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post #43 of 45 Old 06-13-2019, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
Nostalgia is fine. But it has no place in the current discussion about the latest gen Supra. The videos I posted has answers to everything people are complaining about and speculating on. Mark actually talked to Tada San. He said the cost to resurrect an inline 6 would have cost Toyota $300 million just for the engine development. It had nothing to do with meeting EPA standards. Toyota has no inline 6 period. And all of the tooling at the factories that once produced the inline 6s are gone.

In addition, Mark said Tada San said Toyota had a lot of input over the engine. The engine is a B58. Since I'm over on the BMW forums a lot, I've watched the chatter over the B58. Lots of people are impressed with the motor. Tada San's team tore into the motor and were satisfied with the design and components used. They did provide input on future updates/upgrades to be implemented.

The same goes with the chassis. Tada San said they were a signicant part of the design team.

Frankly, I feel Toyota's version has the leg up for me being a fixed hard top. If I were in the market for a $50k sports car, the Supra would be high on the list and may get my pick over the M2. This is coming from an owner of an E82 135i.
Its not just nostalgia, it is the very reason why the Supra name is so Iconic, and badly missed by those who knew them. I actually owned one and enjoyed bothering Porsches. So do not be deciding what is appropriate here for me to say and post
Re-read my post please. I am trying to agree with you! Not eveything on the internet is a complaint. I stated how that B58 has been undergoing development all these years since and is so smooth and light. And yes you get a Turbo six for the same price as a BMW four. Calm down, The Supra is going to be a blast.
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post #44 of 45 Old Yesterday, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
Nostalgia is fine. But it has no place in the current discussion about the latest gen Supra. The videos I posted has answers to everything people are complaining about and speculating on. Mark actually talked to Tada San. He said the cost to resurrect an inline 6 would have cost Toyota $300 million just for the engine development. It had nothing to do with meeting EPA standards. Toyota has no inline 6 period. And all of the tooling at the factories that once produced the inline 6s are gone.

In addition, Mark said Tada San said Toyota had a lot of input over the engine. The engine is a B58. Since I'm over on the BMW forums a lot, I've watched the chatter over the B58. Lots of people are impressed with the motor. Tada San's team tore into the motor and were satisfied with the design and components used. They did provide input on future updates/upgrades to be implemented.

The same goes with the chassis. Tada San said they were a signicant part of the design team.

Frankly, I feel Toyota's version has the leg up for me being a fixed hard top. If I were in the market for a $50k sports car, the Supra would be high on the list and may get my pick over the M2. This is coming from an owner of an E82 135i.
Newsflash, they didn't need an I6. They have their own very capable engines and platforms they could've used. They easily could've used the LC engines and platform for the new Supra, which would've had precedent seeing how earlier Supra's shared a lot of with the SC/Soarer. But no. Tada San is quickly becoming the worst engineer at Toyota. He's the same fool who thinks the warmed over, slow Subaru they gave us is a work of art. It's obvious he has no faith in his own company to build a real sports car, and instead outsources all the work to inferior companies. If you want to believe their BS that it would "cost too much" to build it on their own, then it's curious how they can seemingly build the LF-A with no regard to cost, or the LC or RC. And if they want to give the excuse "they're too heavy and not good enough", then they're admitting those cars aren't good period, and we know that not to be the case.

This car is a BMW and is the worst car to ever wear a Toyota badge, other than the JDM rebadged Chevy Cavalier. It's quite frankly embarrassing. The world's largest and most profitable car company outsourcing their cars to a company known for making overpriced junk. Maybe they can get Jeep to build the new Land Cruiser. This hunk of junk was sneered at during Toyota Fest and didn't get anywhere near the reaction they wanted. These pigs will be worth scrap value in 7 years when the BMW electronics go haywire and cost more than a new Corolla to fix, and I can't wait for it to blow up in their face. No Supra is better than this junker.

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post #45 of 45 Old Yesterday, 09:09 PM
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No Supra is better than this junker.
Don't fret...some owners will probably yank the B58 and do the proper swap
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