Toyota Certified Pre Owned Scam - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
Toyota Dealers Toyota dealership reviews, comments, and discussion.

 2Likes
  • 2 Post By mark888
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 9 Old 01-27-2019, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
Official TN Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
Thumbs down Toyota Certified Pre Owned Scam

We’ve been a Toyota family since the 1974 Corona wagon my dad bought, so are accustomed to Toyota quality in everything.

Yesterday I went to a Houston dealer to buy 2105 Cerified Pre Owned Venza with low miles.
While looking at the car, I lifted the plastic engine cover. The engine valley had dozens of RAT TURDS laying in there. Obviously, the engine was never inspected. No matter, the warranty should cover any
issue that comes up. Wrong! Read the fine print on the warranty brochure. Things like fuel pump, oil cooler, engine computer, fuel and oil lines are not covered. Fuel injectors are not listed as being covered.

The whole inspection report, which they won’t give you unless you ask, is basically what any Firestone, or PEP boys does on a service check. Toyota doesn’t even check the transmission fluid. Btw, the service manager admitted they don’t inspect the engine if it’s running okay. Just the fluids, which don’t require lifting the plastic cover.

Certainly not worth the high price dealers demand for CPO. This was my first experience with this dealer,90miles from my home. It’s my second with Toyota pre Owned with a warranty. NEVER AGAIN

The first experience was 7 years ago with a preowned Avalon. 5 days after we bought it, the engine cratered. It sounded like a UPS truck when we started it. The local Toyota dealer (not where we bought it), diagnosed it as failed cam bearings. When we asked how this could happen in only 5 days and 200 miles, they said the original owner probably never changed the oil, so the dealer did, and may have added some “motor honey” to quiet it down.

I’ve never gone online to trash a company before, but these experiences have soured me on the Toyota dealer network.

No doubt there are thousands who have had good experience. So long as the car has been reasonably maintained and not abused, a used Toyota should be okay.

Just don’t put any faith in the Toyota pre-Owned, process or warranty to cover you if it hadn’t. You could regret plopping down 20 or 30 thousand dollars for a TURD.

2015 Venza XLE, 13k
06 Avalon XL 170k
04 Avalon XLS 180k
eppoh is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to eppoh For This Useful Post:
John Anthony (01-27-2019)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 Old 01-27-2019, 06:42 PM
Senior TN Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 1,856
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 784 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 110 Times in 105 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
This is a dealer issue, as they are supposed to do the inspections. The same situation exists at most all dealers of most all makes. It's really just a warranty, not a real inspection.
mark888 is offline  
post #3 of 9 Old 01-27-2019, 06:51 PM
Senior TN Member
 
Vangm25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 3,148
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 769 Post(s)
Thanks: 23
Thanked 168 Times in 162 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Hit or miss, you either will or you won't get lucky. One step in "getting lucky" is doing a quick inspection yourself.

Vangm25 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 9 Old 01-27-2019, 07:09 PM
Senior TN Member
 
cb91710's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: SoCal IE
Posts: 3,597
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1651 Post(s)
Thanks: 97
Thanked 378 Times in 353 Posts
Lifetime Supreme Member
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark888 View Post
This is a dealer issue, as they are supposed to do the inspections. The same situation exists at most all dealers of most all makes. It's really just a warranty, not a real inspection.
This.
The program itself is not a scam, but the dealer is cutting corners on labor and not doing the work.

IMHO, the main advantage of CPO is the warranty.

-- Rich

cb91710 is offline  
post #5 of 9 Old 01-27-2019, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
Official TN Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark888 View Post
This is a dealer issue, as they are supposed to do the inspections. The same situation exists at most all dealers of most all makes. It's really just a warranty, not a real inspection.
I would have to disagree. Looking over the Toyota inspection checklist, checking such things as injector wiring, or looking at the top of the engine for oil/ fuel leaks, or any other kind of defects is not on the checklist. All dealers use the same checklist from Toyota. The “160 point inspection” is really accentuated as part of the CPO marketing. The purpose of which is to give the potential buyer some sense of security they are not buying “someone else’s problem”.

The service manager said they rely on the detail crew to wash that area. I’m glad they missed it.

As for the warranty, it’s not really much of a warranty as it covers very little of what normally goes wrong on these cars. I think you’d be better off paying less for a non CPO, and purchasing a third party warranty from a reputable company. That would be one that covers the engine computer, and things like fuel pump, oil cooler and lines, etc.

2015 Venza XLE, 13k
06 Avalon XL 170k
04 Avalon XLS 180k

Last edited by eppoh; 01-27-2019 at 07:26 PM.
eppoh is offline  
post #6 of 9 Old 01-27-2019, 07:25 PM
GOT SN❄W?
 
05Moose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In the snow (NorCal)
Posts: 13,865
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1946 Post(s)
Thanks: 812
Thanked 2,214 Times in 1,745 Posts
Lifetime Supreme Member
Garage
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
What was the mileage on it? The last time we bought a CPO it came with the standard 100K mile “factory” (bumper to bumper) warranty with no exclusions. That was the advantage of a CPO vs new (free, longer warranty). Been 15 years since we bought used though, so have things changed?


'05 4x4 DC LB SR5 (LSD & Tow Pkg), Timbrens, AAL, 5100s, 12/3/04
2010 Highlander 4WD
2019 Subaru Crosstrek Limited
05Moose is offline  
post #7 of 9 Old 01-27-2019, 09:03 PM
Senior TN Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 1,856
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 784 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 110 Times in 105 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by eppoh View Post
I would have to disagree. Looking over the Toyota inspection checklist, checking such things as injector wiring, or looking at the top of the engine for oil/ fuel leaks, or any other kind of defects is not on the checklist. All dealers use the same checklist from Toyota. The “160 point inspection” is really accentuated as part of the CPO marketing. The purpose of which is to give the potential buyer some sense of security they are not buying “someone else’s problem”.
I don't think you understand what I meant by it being a "dealer issue."

Toyota dealers in the USA are not owned by Toyota Motor, and they are independent businesses (by law). Toyota lays out the requirements that a dealer "supposed" to follow in terms of inspections for a CPO vehicle, but many dealers do not perform the inspections. They often figure that the customer will point out the problems to them if there are any. This same problem exists throughout the industry among many brands. This saves them some labor costs, especially if they are very busy in the service department.

I am not in any way excusing this situation, or expressing an opinion on whether CPO is worth the higher price charged to a customer. Dealers do a lot of other shady things, such as telling customers that maintenance is required at a certain time or mileage interval, when the Toyota official documentation specifies a longer time or mileage in between maintenance.

One reason that this is a common problem is that car dealers are usually owned by a parent company that owns more than one brand, and also because most people who work at dealerships have worked at other dealerships (and often selling other brands), and they bring along with them all the same scams to inflict on the consumer. They all seem to have the same tricks up their sleeves.
mark888 is offline  
post #8 of 9 Old 01-28-2019, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
Official TN Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 05Moose View Post
What was the mileage on it? The last time we bought a CPO it came with the standard 100K mile “factory” (bumper to bumper) warranty with no exclusions. That was the advantage of a CPO vs new (free, longer warranty). Been 15 years since we bought used though, so have things changed?
Mileage was 34000.

The CPO “bumper to bumper” isn’t really. It has many exclusions, and it’s only one year. The 100k warranty isn’t really 100k either. It’s the balance remaining “up to 100k”. I looked at one car that had 59k, which meant the (already lame 100k warranty), was only really 41k. It also has a 7year limit, from the day the car was first delivered to the original owner. All of this may have been different when Hyundai was marketing cheap new cars with a true 100k bumper to bumper, but now it’s mainly a marketing ploy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark888 View Post
I don't think you understand what I meant by it being a "dealer issue."

Toyota dealers in the USA are not owned by Toyota Motor, and they are independent businesses (by law). Toyota lays out the requirements that a dealer "supposed" to follow in terms of inspections for a CPO vehicle, but many dealers do not perform the inspections. They often figure that the customer will point out the problems to them if there are any. This same problem exists throughout the industry among many brands. This saves them some labor costs, especially if they are very busy in the service department.

I am not in any way excusing this situation, or expressing an opinion on whether CPO is worth the higher price charged to a customer. Dealers do a lot of other shady things, such as telling customers that maintenance is required at a certain time or mileage interval, when the Toyota official documentation specifies a longer time or mileage in between maintenance.

One reason that this is a common problem is that car dealers are usually owned by a parent company that owns more than one brand, and also because most people who work at dealerships have worked at other dealerships (and often selling other brands), and they bring along with them all the same scams to inflict on the consumer. They all seem to have the same tricks up their sleeves.
Straw man fail.

888, judging from your knowledgable posts of many arcane things Toyota one might think you are/ were employed by Toyota.

Maybe you should read the actual TMC CPO warranty and inspection check list, before you defend the Corporation.

Wish I had kept them, so I could post copies here.

2015 Venza XLE, 13k
06 Avalon XL 170k
04 Avalon XLS 180k

Last edited by eppoh; 01-28-2019 at 08:17 AM.
eppoh is offline  
post #9 of 9 Old 01-28-2019, 09:22 AM
Senior TN Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 1,856
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 784 Post(s)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 110 Times in 105 Posts
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by eppoh View Post
Mileage was 34000.

The CPO “bumper to bumper” isn’t really. It has many exclusions, and it’s only one year. The 100k warranty isn’t really 100k either. It’s the balance remaining “up to 100k”. I looked at one car that had 59k, which meant the (already lame 100k warranty), was only really 41k. It also has a 7year limit, from the day the car was first delivered to the original owner. All of this may have been different when Hyundai was marketing cheap new cars with a true 100k bumper to bumper, but now it’s mainly a marketing ploy.
I have never seen any 100K warranty that added 100K to the existing mileage, it just extends the warranty to that total.

In the case of Hyundai, all vehicles have a 60K or 5 year new car warranty (what you call bumper to bumper, but with some exclusions like paint, etc), and original owners get a 100K or 10 year powertrain warranty (basically engine and transmission). If a used Hyundai is designated as a CPO by an authorized dealer, the 100K powertrain warranty is restored for subsequent owners. A Hyundai dealer has to pay Hyundai Motor about $800-$1000 to make a car a CPO (since Hyundai extends the warranty, not the dealer), but like your situation, most dealers don't really do all the inspections so you are mostly just getting a warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eppoh View Post
Straw man fail.

888, judging from your knowledgable posts of many arcane things Toyota one might think you are/ were employed by Toyota.

Maybe you should read the actual TMC CPO warranty and inspection check list, before you defend the Corporation.

Wish I had kept them, so I could post copies here.
My comments don't have anything to do with a straw-man argument.

No, I don't work for Toyota and I don't work (and never have worked) in any part of the auto business, but I have been buying cars for about 50 years, so have learned a few things.

I have also been on various auto forums for awhile, and there are enough complaints about lack of real CPO inspections for me to know that it is a common problem in the auto business. I also know enough about the legal difference between a manufacturer and a dealer to know that dealers are not owned by Toyota Motor, and it is sometimes hard for Toyota to enforce their rules on dealers. That is why I said it is a dealer issue.

Of course, Toyota "may" be able to drop the dealer from their authorized network if the dealers don't follow the rules, but that hurts Toyota Motor ability to sell cars, so they are reluctant to do things like that, unless it is a major issue. But if you feel strongly about it, and want some kind or remedy, I suggest you call Toyota Motor customer service.
05Moose and Vangm25 like this.
mark888 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums > Commerce > Feedback: Buyers, Sellers, Vendors, etc. > Toyota Dealers

Bookmarks

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome