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Consolidated tire thread

268K views 407 replies 148 participants last post by  ukrkoz 
#1 ·
Highlander Hybrid a boat anchor in the snow!!

Sorry to repeat this message from another thread, but I think it's important for folks to know. Buyer beware!!

Oh my gawd! We finally got some snow in MN. I just found out that my wife's $36,000 2006 Highlander Hybrid is 100% absolutely useless in powder snow. This thing will leave you stranded!!!! Do not buy one of these if you will ever need to drive off the pavement!!! I knew from reading the owner's manual that the Highlander Hybrid is not to be considered an off-road vehicle. And I used to be OK with that, that's why I have a Chevy Silverado 4WD and it's awesome in deep snow. But this weekend I pulled that Highlander Hybrid into a parking lot that had about 8" of medium-weight snow (not fluffy, but not slushy either, good snowball making snow). And the vehicle instantly came to a complete stop!! Stepping on the gas pedal had NO EFFECT. The engine will not rev up, no power is applied to the wheels, and it just sits there like a freaking boat anchor!! What a horrible piece of crap!! This vehicle will leave you stranded if you ever try to drive in anything that will cause wheel slippage such as medium depth snow, loose sand, gravel, etc. In such a situation small 2WD drive cars would be able to keep going and you will be left stranded in your nearly $40,000 piece of Toyota crap!! I just called the service manager at the Toyota dealer and complained and she said "But it's unusual to drive one of these in 8" of snow". Bull crap! Our cul-de-sac often has that much snow in the event of one of our increasingly rare MN snowfalls. These things need to have a mode where you can shut off the Traction Control system, even if that puts you only into front-wheel-drive-only mode.
 
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#327 · (Edited)
So far, our 2011 Highlander Hybrid seems similar in slippery conditions to our Subaru Outback automatic (with limited slip rear diff). It certainly hasn't been any worse than 2WD. We haven't had a lot of snow the last two winters for a better comparison, though. I did swap the crappy stock Bridgestone Dueler HRR tires with much higher quality Michelin all-seasons before this winter, though, and that seems to have improved noise, handling and traction overall.

Yeah, it's not like having a Jeep Grand Cherokee with Quadra Drive plus snow tires for tackling icy mountain passes, but fortunately those are pretty rare in the midwest. For slippery conditions around the city and suburbs, it seems to get going quicker than our Prius and other 2WD cars. After almost 2 years, I'm getting 30+ mpg overall in Chicago. Based on warm temperature mileage, I'd be getting above 35 mpg overall if I lived in FL or the southwest. I'm happy with that tradeoff. If I lived in a colder climate that had more snow or worse conditions, I'd probably want something other than a Highlander. Preferably, something that didn't rely upon open differentials plus traction control as the primary slip limiting mechanism.
 
#329 ·
Tires, Snow Mode, and TRAC/VSC

I've driven in extensive snow this year all over New England with my 2011 Highlander SE AWD and played with all the gadgets. I always always use the SNOW mode when driving in the snow! That is what it is there for! It prevents wheel slippage which is always what this vehicle wants to do. With open differentials on the front back and center more power will go to the slipping wheel actually. It is only the traction control system that prevents the slipping wheel from spinning like crazy. The TRAC will brake the spinning wheel and allows the other wheels to maintain power. Theoretically. The VSC will cut power if you start to slide and slip sideways. I have had instances where this has happened, mostly in slushy snow, but not on ice. I have played with the TRAC and VSC off. If you are driving up a hill in snow with the systems on you will stay straighter but you will feel the systems working....they keep you straight. If you turn the systems off you will feel more wheel spin and slide. I'd suggest doing exactly what toyota tells use. Leave the systems on unless you get stuck and need wheel spin to buck out of a spot forward and back. I've been using the snow mode, and leaving TRAC and VSC on. (on 2008+ there is a button, hit once TRAC goes off, hold for 5 seconds VSC goes off) I find this gives me the best handling and maintains balance on snowy roads. I always use snow mode. And I put Michelin LTX M/S tires on. The tires ARE a huge difference on this vehicle. Most tires these days are made with wider tread blocks, less spacing between the treads, to optimize fuel economy and handling, but also makes these tires lesss effective in the snow. If you really want your HL to perform in the snow I suggest the Michelin LTX I am driving, the Goodyear Fortera Triple Tred (if you can stil find them they are snowflake rated) for Highway all season, then there are more AT tires that will improve performance in snow, Firestone DestinationAT, Michelin LTX AT, Goodyear Foretera silent armor (snowflake rated) Kumho Road Venturer SAT KL61(snow rated). I have no sympathy for people with the crappy Toyo or Bridgestone Dueler or Dunlops. No one tire or no one vehicle is goingto give u everything. Yin and a Yang to all. So I've driven in the snow extensively this winter and had no trouble. Only once. I had a very steep hill with about 6 -8 inches of really sloppy stuff and I started to spin. I was just testing the sytem so I decided to not ruin my vacation by getting stuck, turned around. Other than that I have driven around my neighborhood, tested the sytem going up and down hills with half the car in deep snow the other on pavement, driven on snow covered roads and highways and neighborhoods with no problems. I saw Highlander off the road this past weekend. I've also seen Pathfinders and Jeeps off the road. I think sensible driving and good tires are more important than any system. Front wheel drive with snow tires will outperform awd with allseason tires. Don't beleive me check tire rack for the actual tests. Snow tires is an investment most awd owners downt want to make but if you spend $1,000 on tires and wheels you save on replacing your all season or summer tires its not too bad.
 
#330 ·
I've driven in extensive snow this year all over New England with my 2011 Highlander SE AWD and played with all the gadgets. I always always use the SNOW mode when driving in the snow! That is what it is there for! It prevents wheel slippage which is always what this vehicle wants to do. With open differentials on the front back and center more power will go to the slipping wheel actually. It is only the traction control system that prevents the slipping wheel from spinning like crazy. The TRAC will brake the spinning wheel and allows the other wheels to maintain power. Theoretically. The VSC will cut power if you start to slide and slip sideways. I have had instances where this has happened, mostly in slushy snow, but not on ice. I have played with the TRAC and VSC off. If you are driving up a hill in snow with the systems on you will stay straighter but you will feel the systems working....they keep you straight. If you turn the systems off you will feel more wheel spin and slide. I'd suggest doing exactly what toyota tells use. Leave the systems on unless you get stuck and need wheel spin to buck out of a spot forward and back. I've been using the snow mode, and leaving TRAC and VSC on. (on 2008+ there is a button, hit once TRAC goes off, hold for 5 seconds VSC goes off) I find this gives me the best handling and maintains balance on snowy roads. I always use snow mode. And I put Michelin LTX M/S tires on. The tires ARE a huge difference on this vehicle. Most tires these days are made with wider tread blocks, less spacing between the treads, to optimize fuel economy and handling, but also makes these tires lesss effective in the snow. If you really want your HL to perform in the snow I suggest the Michelin LTX I am driving, the Goodyear Fortera Triple Tred (if you can stil find them they are snowflake rated) for Highway all season, then there are more AT tires that will improve performance in snow, Firestone DestinationAT, Michelin LTX AT, Goodyear Foretera silent armor (snowflake rated) Kumho Road Venturer SAT KL61(snow rated). I have no sympathy for people with the crappy Toyo or Bridgestone Dueler or Dunlops. No one tire or no one vehicle is goingto give u everything. Yin and a Yang to all. So I've driven in the snow extensively this winter and had no trouble. Only once. I had a very steep hill with about 6 -8 inches of really sloppy stuff and I started to spin. I was just testing the sytem so I decided to not ruin my vacation by getting stuck, turned around. Other than that I have driven around my neighborhood, tested the sytem going up and down hills with half the car in deep snow the other on pavement, driven on snow covered roads and highways and neighborhoods with no problems. I saw Highlander off the road this past weekend. I've also seen Pathfinders and Jeeps off the road. I think sensible driving and good tires are more important than any system. Front wheel drive with snow tires will outperform awd with allseason tires. Don't beleive me check tire rack for the actual tests. Snow tires is an investment most awd owners downt want to make but if you spend $1,000 on tires and wheels you save on replacing your all season or summer tires its not too bad.
The first part of your post does not apply to the Highlander Hybrids, (At least the 2011+ model years) which do not have a "Snow" button. They also do not have a rear differential because there is no transfer case...each rear wheel is independently powered by an electric motor. Better tires may help, no doubt. That is true of any car.
 
#332 ·
wow i live in Canada and we go to the cottage 4 or 5 times a year in the winter and i never had any of these issues, i drive in 8-12" of snow with my 2009 Hybrid limited as my drive way to the cottage is unpaved. Now i do have winter tires but the vehicle feels solid and never been stuck once in 3 years. I also do late fall/winter fishing and have had no problem pulling out the boat even on icy ramps... i think its tires or something i cant explain but we get snow in Canada and lots of it
 
#333 ·
Now that the last snowfall of 2012-2013 is behind us (hopefully) I can report that I had absolutely ZERO issues with the HiHy.

Actually during our last big record breaking dump (March 19th) I casually drove by an x-drive 3 series that was completely stuck.

In the same level of snow I came to a complete stop, just to verify whether I could get moving with no momentum. No problem.

I backed out of a forward slanting driveway from a complete stop. No problem.

I'm not sure how much you expect this vehicle to be capable of, but in any reasonable conditions it seemed to do A-OK by me.

Obviously there are limits, but I don't plan to test them. That same day (03/19) I saw a Jeep Wrangler get stuck. He was trying to drive through 3 ft of snow.

Reasonable expectations....
 
#334 ·
i was telling my wife about some of the issues others have reported in snow and she thought it funny too and reminded be about the last long weekend . we had a mild winter this year so i changed to the all season's early in March, on Easter weekend we went to the cottage on the all season's and went to get honey and maple syrup form a local producer. We drive on unpaved road for about a mile with about 6" of snow and drifts in the 8" to 10" range i would say, i had no issue even on the all season Ecopia 422 so i cant say its due to my winters as i felt pretty confident on the all season's
 
#335 ·
I sure hope this will be enough to restart this thread… I have a 2007 Highlander hybrid…it'

I sure hope this will be enough to re-start this thread… Our 2007 AWD Highlander Hybrid needs new tires. Only one tire is shot and the others are in good shape but it's AWD so… Would anyone like to offer an opinion on whether I can safely get two tires as opposed to 4? Oh - The other 3 are Michelins… Also any suggestions on choosing a type of Michelin?


Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this problem.
 
#337 ·
I looked into this when we bought wife's RX350 AWD. Seller never rotated tires resulting in front end basically bald and rear one quite OK.
Yes, AWD system is different from 4WD one, where you have mechanical couplings binding front and rear wheels together when engaged. Thus, 4WD systems are super sensitive to the wheel diameter being exactly same on all 4 corners, or it will lock transfer case. I actually experienced that on my Silverado.
In AWD system, you have, technically, another transmission instead of mechanical differential. It's called viscous differential. Allegedly, you can get away with front vs rear axles spinning at different RPMs, as the result of not matching tires diameters. But when I was digging through this, finding out if we can replace only one axle tires, I came across what looked well written article saying that as AWD is always on, diameter variations cause undue strain on the system. Same article mentioned that each manufacturer has specific tolerances for that diameter discrepancy, varying from 1/16 to 1/4 of an inch.
So I decided - is it worth it? Got all 4 new tires. Tire Rack, Sumitomos, 19 inch, $118 each. They even had $108 tires but very shitty reviews. I paid about $520 grand toatl with install, but I also bought peace of mind.
Your call.
 
#338 ·

There are several suggestions that have been offered to drivers who are replacing pairs or individual tires on their four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles. Some vehicle manufacturers recommend that all tires maintain the same rolling radius and circumference, while others suggest that all tire circumferences remain within 1/4- to 1/2-inch of each other. Other vehicle manufacturers recommend that all four tires remain within 2/32-, 3/32- or 4/32-inch of each other, or within 30% of each other in relative remaining tread depth.

Regardless of the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations, the least stressful application is when all four tires are the same tire brand, tread design and equivalent tread depth.

Before buying pairs or individual tires for all-wheel drive and four-wheel drive vehicles, drivers should read their vehicle's owners manual or contact the dealer's service department for confirmation of their specific vehicle's requirements.
 
#339 ·

Regardless of the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations, the least stressful application is when all four tires are the same tire brand, tread design and equivalent tread depth.


I followed your good advice and got 4 new tires, had the car aligned and thought I was good. I had talked with the parts guy prior to buying and he said the tires would be from 2015.

But when I picked the car up last night the tires were from 2014 and not even all from the same month. I have a call into the service department and am waiting for a call back.

Shouldn't I ask for tires from this calendar year to avoid undue deterioration?

Thanks for any thoughts you might have on this new issue!
 
#343 ·
My 06 HH needs tires as well (all 4). Did you go with a touring tire or a crossover/suv tire? I'm really confused why they would recommend a passenger car tire for an SUV. Suggestions on tire rack were the Continental True Contact (standard touring all season tire) and the Continental Cross Contact LX20 (crossover/suv tire). Thanks!
 
#349 ·
This thing eats tires. Tirebuyer recommends Firestone Destination LE2 or General Grabber HTS. Anybody have any treadwear experience with these tires?
You need to have your alignment and suspension checked. No car should "eat tires." That said, I put Destination LE2s on our 2010 a few years ago and there're running great.

Agree with alignment/suspension check.


Friend put new Michelin LTX M/S II's on his HiHy and loves them.....I have them on my '16 Tacoma and it is a nice tire, IMHO.....
 
#357 ·
AWD in ice & snow

Hey all,

I'm new to the forum and am considering replacing my '06 Lexus RX400h with a new Highlander Hybrid.

One of the biggest needs I have is the ability to safely take my family up in the mountains every weekend through winter (kids are on the ski team). My RX400h AWD system's traction control was really seamless, and worked surprisingly well with winter tires -- I always had power to continue uphill even when there was some slippage in one of the tires. My wife's '08 Prius, on the other hand, shuts off all power to the wheels (granted it's 2WD) for nearly 2 seconds at the slightest slip of one tire. Just not feasible for the long, steep, icy roads I need to drive on.

My question is this: is the traction control on the modern HiHy's more like my Lexus or more like the Prius? Will I be pulling my hair out?

I really like the additional space and 3rd row in the Toyota, and am willing to part with some MPG *and* power loss to get that space -- but not at the expense of safe driving in these conditions.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts on the subject!
 
#358 ·
The 2014-2016 Highlanders are based on the RX450h (or vice-versa). Also, there is now a button to push to turn off traction control if you need it to get out of a particularly slippery situation. That said, I would imagine that the traction control will operate in the same manner as your RX400h did. You'll probably continue to need to use snow tires for maximum grip.

The Gen2 Prii were always excessively conservative with their traction control. I don't know if the Gen3 Prii fixed that problem.
 
#359 ·
The Gen2 Prii were always excessively conservative with their traction control. I don't know if the Gen3 Prii fixed that problem.

A friend with a new Prius says it is much better than the Gen2 in the ice/snow here in Flag, so I think they have 'adjusted' that issue now that more and more people are buying Prii in all sorts of environments instead of just mostly being west coasters only dealing with rain instead of much fouler weather.
 
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