1974 Hilux Starting and then Stalling... - Page 2 - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
Pre-88 Toyota Pickup/Hilux Discussion area for the '88 and older Toyota Pickup/Hilux.

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post #16 of 33 Old 05-07-2019, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic View Post
Make sure you have compression and spark, or everything you are doing could be a huge waste of time. You can always get some fuel to it and make it run WITH COMPRESSION AND SPARK.
Have you done this?
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post #17 of 33 Old 05-07-2019, 07:04 AM
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Old Mechanic is not wrong - do those things.

Meanwhile, disconnecting the battery won't keep it from discharging, except, say, overnight. The electrochemical reaction that creates power continues to occur.

General rule of thumb is to recharge the batter after it been sitting disconnected for 2 weeks. After jump-starting a dead battery, a healthy alternator will top it off, electrically, in about 2 hours of driving (not idling, driving over 25-30 mph).

01 Avalon XL
03 Avalon XL

Last edited by OleAvalon; 05-07-2019 at 07:07 AM.
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post #18 of 33 Old 05-07-2019, 07:44 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks again for the advice. I have a compression test kit but read that the engine needs to be warm for this to work properly, any other way to test?
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post #19 of 33 Old 05-07-2019, 08:01 AM
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The basic parameters (for example, cylinder to cylinder comparison) are the same hot or cold. What readings do you get with all plugs out, strong battery, strong starter? Anything over 100 psi = healthy cylinder. Less than 10 percent difference between cylinders, healthy engine. But even unhealthy engines (80 psi, 20%) still run, but will be harder to start and may lope.

EDIT: Don't despair if the test shows terrible compression on all cylinders. That MIGHT indicate that your valve timing is way off, a condition that would make it impossible to start.

01 Avalon XL
03 Avalon XL

Last edited by OleAvalon; 05-07-2019 at 08:18 AM.
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post #20 of 33 Old 05-07-2019, 08:12 AM Thread Starter
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Cool, I’ll give thos a shot this evening!
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post #21 of 33 Old 05-07-2019, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rassisland View Post
. . . engine will crank, like normal . . . but won't turn over . . .

Good. That's what I meant about using the term "turn over" differently. To many people, "turn over" means the engine turns, or cranks.


To answer your previous question, yes. As long as the starter is spinning the engine round and round, you can measure the compression. That's a good thing to do. You might Google and read up on "dry" and "wet" compression and measure both.


The fundamental rule of engines is that if it has compression, fuel and spark (timed correctly), it will run. Once you show you have good compression, it's time to check the spark.


People have a tendency to check the spark by pulling a wire and holding it 1/4" or so from a grounded engine part. I believe this is a bad idea and sometimes damages a perfectly good spark coil. For a spark to jump farther than .035" takes proportionally higher voltage, and excessive voltage leads to internal arcing in the coil. I prefer to connect a spare spark plug to the wires, and tie it securely to ground with a wire.


Once you have compression and spark, it's time to spray starting fluid into the carb. If the engine fires on starting fluid, that suggests you may have a fuel system problem.

Last edited by Wekadog; 05-07-2019 at 10:43 AM.
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post #22 of 33 Old 05-07-2019, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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One more question since I’ve got all your attention... if you look back at the points photos, that wire is pretty frayed, could this play any part? Looks like that part is pretty cheap on eBay but would messing with the screws cause any more issues?
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post #23 of 33 Old 05-07-2019, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rassisland View Post
. . . points . . . wire is pretty frayed, could this play any part? Looks like that part is pretty cheap on eBay but would messing with the screws cause any more issues?
If the points wire is shorted to ground, you will have no spark. If the wire is flopping around and shorting when you break, that could cause you to stall. If shorted points were preventing you from restarting, it would be obvious that you have no spark, and the voltage at the coil (-) would be zero.


New points are always good. Set the gap to spec readjust the timing after changing points.
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post #24 of 33 Old 05-07-2019, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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Hi guys, thanks for all your help throughout this process; I would have been ost without this wisdom! So I took out the spark plugs and tested the compression in each cylinder. They were all 126 or 127, which is a good sign, correct. I also tested for a spark and got that too. Also picked up some starter fluid and shot it in the carburetor and the thing started right up and ran for about 10 seconds!! So I’m thinking it’s gotta be the fuel pump?

I removed it to check it out and ordered a new one off eBay. Hopefully this is the fix I’ve been looking for! I’ll keep you posted , you’re on the journey now too!
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post #25 of 33 Old 05-07-2019, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rassisland View Post
. . . So Iím thinking itís gotta be the fuel pump? . . .
I think you're jumping to conclusions about the fuel pump. If the fuel pump is the problem, then the engine should run with a steady fuel supply, right? I like to hang a pop bottle of gas from the hood latch and run a fuel line from the bottle directly to the carb - kind of like an IV bottle. It's an instant fuel system.

If the engine runs on the pop bottle, then you know the carb is OK. With the engine running, you can test the fuel pump. Route the inlet to a jar of fuel, and the outlet back into the same jar. See if it will pump fuel.

Other fuel system problems include clogged fuel lines, lines sucking air, clogged fuel filter.
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post #26 of 33 Old 05-08-2019, 06:35 AM
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Take a short piece of fuel line and an old pump oil can, fill the oil can with gas and clamp it to the line, pump the carb bowl full of gas, start the engine. Keep pumping and it will keep running, get to crazy and you will overfill the bowl and the gas will run out the top, fire hazard.

Take a portable air tank and a gas cap, drill a hole in the top of the gas cap (preferably one you know is fubar'ed) and install a gauge and air fitting in a line connected to the cap with a one way valve put 2 pounds of air pressure in the tank and you have a fuel pump as long as you keep the air pressure at 2 psi.

The IV idea posted above is a good one since you get pressure supplied by gravity as long as it is enough to get the valve in the float chamber to let the gas in.

Another suggestion, when you get it running take a timing light and point if down the carb and watch the fuel using the timing light for it's strobe effect, if you see any fuel dribbling out instead of being atomized, the carb is not working properly. Only exception is the power valve, which should not dribble but give you a forceful stream.
learned that in the late 1960s.

We used to use air pressure to pop out dents in fuel tanks, back when they were metal.

Last edited by Old Mechanic; 05-08-2019 at 06:40 AM.
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post #27 of 33 Old 05-08-2019, 06:40 AM
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(Just interjecting this - nothing to do with fuel pump tests and the great ideas for testing in the previous posts.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rassisland View Post
.... compression in each cylinder. They were all 126 or 127, which is a good sign, correct....
Absolutely. Very healthy compression numbers.

01 Avalon XL
03 Avalon XL

Last edited by OleAvalon; 05-08-2019 at 06:45 AM.
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post #28 of 33 Old 05-08-2019, 06:53 AM Thread Starter
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Great things to try, might be a little over my head though. I’ve already ordered a new fuel pump, on $40, so I’ll give that a try. I was also lucky enough to find a factory restored carburetor on eBay, if they fuel pump doesn’t work maybe that will.

Good to hear the compression numbers are in a good range, I was pretty excited to see that.
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post #29 of 33 Old 05-08-2019, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rassisland View Post
. . . factory restored carburetor on eBay, if the fuel pump doesnít work maybe that will . . .

It's totally your call, of course, but I would recommend you think the problem through to a diagnosis rather than changing parts. It's not always a part that's bad. You can waste a lot of money on parts and come to find the problem is a $5 clogged fuel filter, of even just a kink in the fuel line.


A big tip of the hat to Old Mechanic for his pressurized fuel tank idea. I just pressurized my tank to 2 psi last month for a different reason (smog test). On trucks with evap like my '84, you can pressurized the tank from the vent line. Not even any need to adapt a gas cap. I'm going to keep this tip in my bag of tricks. Thank you for sharing it.
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post #30 of 33 Old 05-11-2019, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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Hey guys

So I removed the fuel pump and cleaned it out, messed with the arm, etc and reinstalled it. I also disconnected the fuel line from the carb and put the end in a bottle and started it up, there was definitely gas shooting into the bottle so I reattached the cable and the truck began running well again!

I changed the oil and oil filter and the truck seemed to be running and idling pretty well. There was hesitation when I’d give it gas though, which kind of concerned me. Also, it seems to idle better when the air filter and housing are off of the carb. What line is supposed to connect to the air filter? The larger one coming off the engine housing?

When I tried the truck tonight it seemed to not be idling as well and would hesitate and almost stall when I’d give it gas, any ideas?

Thanks for the help, glad she’s running again, just want to get it road ready!

Thanks guys!
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