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post #1 of 11 Old 04-19-2019, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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91 5 speed shifting problems

Hi everyone! I had my clutch replaced at a shop about a week ago and noticed immediately that it was harder to shift than before the new clutch was put in. I took it back to the shop who looked at it, said the connection looked good, then just handed it back to me chalking it up as just “sloppy shifting.”

It is difficult to “find gears.” Sometimes while trying to accelerate up to highway speed for example I can’t get into fifth until the 3rd or 4th try. Getting into 1st from a stop is tough and sometimes it pops out of 1st. Sometimes it grinds in 1st. Hard to find 3rd while driving sometimes.

This was not a problem before I took it into the shop. Everything was shifting smoothly. They said they hadn’t touched anything that would cause these problems.

Anyone have an idea? I was in the process of moving so I’m now two states away from the Toyota mechanic I had kind kind of trusted.
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post #2 of 11 Old 04-19-2019, 01:48 PM
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Sounds like someone didn't reconnect the shift linkages properly, and that the shop doesn't want to admit to it.
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post #3 of 11 Old 04-19-2019, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Owiko View Post
Sounds like someone didn't reconnect the shift linkages properly, and that the shop doesn't want to admit to it.
I was wondering about that. I asked them 3 times and their reply was the same. I even mentioned the linkage cable and they brushed me off. I am not a mechanic but I’m good at figuring things out. Something a hack like me could figure out or should I just take it to a different shop?
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post #4 of 11 Old 04-19-2019, 04:10 PM
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I guess you could try a different shop, but personally I'd try to figure it out myself. You should probably also check your clutch master cylinder if it has one just to make sure that it isn't just low fluid causing this.

I don't want to be that guy who is always jumping to conclusions, but I suspect that the last shop probably messed something up on purpose to try and sway you into buying a new car.
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post #5 of 11 Old 04-20-2019, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Owiko View Post
I guess you could try a different shop, but personally I'd try to figure it out myself. You should probably also check your clutch master cylinder if it has one just to make sure that it isn't just low fluid causing this.

I don't want to be that guy who is always jumping to conclusions, but I suspect that the last shop probably messed something up on purpose to try and sway you into buying a new car.
I don’t think it’s the fluid. I just replaced the master cylinder and the level in the reservoir looks good. They might not have properly bled it though? Might give that a try.

I dunno about the shop’s motivation. I replaced the clutch because the front end was making a sound that sounded like a slipping clutch and it didn’t go away with the new clutch. 🤨 But this thing has 265,000 miles on it and the clutch was tired.

They told me the sound went away when the front driveshaft was disengaged and I tried to listen to their explanation through a fog of a 3 hour night of sleep. I think they were saying they thought a gear was stripped on something up front. So I had them pull the front driveshaft which quieter the very noisy problem.

I think at that point they were just happy to be done with this weird old van that was taking them too much time to figure out.

I need to call them back to have them re-explain their theory of that sound but the last two times I talked to them I yelled at them for blowing off a legitimate concern.
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post #6 of 11 Old 04-30-2019, 05:03 PM
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Sorry, I'm having trouble tracking...

1 You had a noise from the front end
2 Took the van to a shop, they said the noise went away when they removed the SADS shaft
3 shop replaced the clutch????

What was the original complain? what was the order of repairs?



That the clutch was replaced and it became hard to shift is 100% on the shop that changed the clutch.

-Russell
"You don't get to judge me for how I fix what you break"
'15 Toyota Prius
'05 Subaru Baja Turbo
'95 Toyota Previa
'70 VW Bug
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post #7 of 11 Old 05-06-2019, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kamesama980 View Post
Sorry, I'm having trouble tracking...

1 You had a noise from the front end
2 Took the van to a shop, they said the noise went away when they removed the SADS shaft
3 shop replaced the clutch????

What was the original complain? what was the order of repairs?



That the clutch was replaced and it became hard to shift is 100% on the shop that changed the clutch.
Ok. Here is the order of events...

One of my front struts blew up so I had both front struts replaced at a shop. Soon after, within a week I noticed a popping sound coming from the front end. It started happening in just first gear, then became a problem while shifting through all of the gears. My half-assed mechanic of a friend was driving around with me and told me it sounded like the clutch was slipping.

So instead of taking it in and getting a proper diagnosis, I trusted this friend and spent $800 getting a new clutch installed. When I described the problem to the shop they said “oh yeah, that sounds like a bad flywheel,” happily took my money, replaced the clutch, and then informed me that the problem sound was still a problem.

They said it seemed like when the engine was under load (the problem is worse when accelerating quickly or driving up a hill), it sounds like a drive axle spline slipping. They checked all the drive shafts and concluded that the sound was likely coming from inside the transfer case. They said when they disconnected the front driveshaft the problem went away. They said they thought they could take out the front driveshaft and I would be ok to drive it.

So I drove away from the shop home to think, scream, etc... but on the drive home noticed that the shifting was worse than before the clutch replacement. I took it back immediately for them to look at it, take and their response was that the linkage was good and that they had touched nothing while replacing the clutch that would have caused that problem.

I had to drive a thousand miles to get to work that weekend so I asked them to remove the front driveline and be on my way because there was no way I could source and replace a transfer case in that time.

I took it back at the end of the day again just to ask questions about the shifting and the shop was totally dismissive because it was late of a Friday and they wanted to go home. I was like shit I’ve handed you $1600 over the past month and you don’t have 5 minutes to talk about why you handed my vehicle back with sloppy shifting? I’m more than a little frustrated with myself and with the shop🤨
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post #8 of 11 Old 05-07-2019, 06:58 AM
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Ah, OK, so this is an AWD... for some reason I thought you meant the SADS when you said frond driveshaft. gotta get all the info up front.

Your friend doesn't know what he's talking about. The shop doesn't know what they're doing but will happily take your money making stupid guesses.

DO NOT REMOVE THE FRONT DRIVESHAFT AND DRIVE. This is not a conventional truck 4WD. There is a center differential with a viscous coupler (limited slip). If you remove the front driveshaft and drive around, the only rear torque you'll have will be what the viscous unit resists spinning the front. it'll shortly overheat and fail... may fail open, may fail locked up, may explode.

That being said, there *may* be a pin you can insert at the rear of the diff to lock the center and be able to drive with the front shaft out for a while. I don't know where it is, how safe it is, or how long you can do it but I remember reading about it and I think the earlier models were the ones that had it.

as for your issues: when you have a slipping clutch, it doesn't sound like anything... you just hear the engine rev up without a corresponding rise in road speed... it's like you have a loosey goosey torque converter instead of a tightly engaged clutch. Also keep in mind the clutch is behind the front seats... roughly at the back of the seats.

When does the noise happen? can you describe it better? can you get a recording of it? When you got the struts done, did they replace the mounts (top hats)? How are the sway bar links, ball joints, and bushings?

Any chance you're in the Southern IN area? This is one of those things I could probably find in 5 minutes in person but takes forever to describe.

-Russell
"You don't get to judge me for how I fix what you break"
'15 Toyota Prius
'05 Subaru Baja Turbo
'95 Toyota Previa
'70 VW Bug
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post #9 of 11 Old 05-07-2019, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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Hey yeah it’s an Alltrac. The sound it makes sounds like a loud popping sound. It is more frequent at higher torque—driving uphill, accelerating quickly, etc. if I drive like a grandma it doesn’t happen. Someone asked if it sounds like a chain slipping on a gear and that sounds about right. All the components have been checked—ball joints, sway bars, etc. and everything looks good. Without the front driveshaft it doesn’t make that sound but there is another sound coming from what a different shop believes is the transfer case. So 2 shops have independently told me the problem is coming from the transfer case.

That being said I put a thousand miles in without a driveshaft and have no idea if that extended damage to the transfer case. I’m feeling some new symptoms while driving though I’ve found some info online about disengaging the viscous coupler with that pin but I’m about to head back into work and will have to play around with it when I get back to town. One guy claims he has driven 14,000 miles with no front driveshaft and a disengaged viscous coupler so if I can make that work it would make me happy because I have to wait to spend more money on this thing 😿

I’m not sure if the first shop replaced the mounts when they replaced the struts. I kind of doubt it. Can I see the mounts without pulling things apart?

I’m in the southwest through the summer, but thanks for the offer for checking it out.
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post #10 of 11 Old 05-08-2019, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farnsie View Post
Hey yeah itís an Alltrac. The sound it makes sounds like a loud popping sound. It is more frequent at higher torqueódriving uphill, accelerating quickly, etc. if I drive like a grandma it doesnít happen. Someone asked if it sounds like a chain slipping on a gear and that sounds about right. All the components have been checkedóball joints, sway bars, etc. and everything looks good. Without the front driveshaft it doesnít make that sound but there is another sound coming from what a different shop believes is the transfer case. So 2 shops have independently told me the problem is coming from the transfer case.

That being said I put a thousand miles in without a driveshaft and have no idea if that extended damage to the transfer case. Iím feeling some new symptoms while driving though Iíve found some info online about disengaging the viscous coupler with that pin but Iím about to head back into work and will have to play around with it when I get back to town. One guy claims he has driven 14,000 miles with no front driveshaft and a disengaged viscous coupler so if I can make that work it would make me happy because I have to wait to spend more money on this thing 😿

Iím not sure if the first shop replaced the mounts when they replaced the struts. I kind of doubt it. Can I see the mounts without pulling things apart?

Iím in the southwest through the summer, but thanks for the offer for checking it out.
Could be the viscous unit is already stuffed and locked up on it's own causing torque bind with all wheels engaged. Could be the center diff gears are damaged and binding and the popping sound is them binding then sliding over the bad spot with all wheels engaged.

Just stick your nose in the wheel wells and look up. The strut mounts are at the top of the springs.

-Russell
"You don't get to judge me for how I fix what you break"
'15 Toyota Prius
'05 Subaru Baja Turbo
'95 Toyota Previa
'70 VW Bug
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post #11 of 11 Old 05-22-2019, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your input. I found detailed instructions for disengaging the viscous coupler. Not a sanctioned mechanical move but it seems like it’s worked for other people and now it’s working well enough for me.

https://www.toyotavantech.com/forum/...=disabling+AWD

Now just gotta get lucky and find another transfer case for a manual van.
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