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post #16 of 29 Old 04-05-2019, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by InTheUS View Post
There are always going to be careless and dumb people doing careless and dumb things. There are also going be situations where bad things happen in spite of an honest effort to be aware.
Personally, I'll take additional features that are implemented correctly that add another layer of safety. For example, my backup camera provides a MUCH wider view and clearer picture of what's going on behind me than what I'm able to see from my review mirror and turning and looking behind me.

So it's going to be up to people (as it always has been) to use these new features wisely and to their advantage versus being lazy and complacent. Having said that, one example of a poor implementation (in my opinion) of a help/safety feature is the new lane trace assist. The first problem is that the system encourages over reliance and complacency on a system that is not capable of safely keeping the vehicle on the road or from crashing into other vehicles to begin with. Add to that the fact that the lane trace assist system will disengage after a short period of time if it does not detect the driver's input. I guess the point of that is to attempt to keep people from trying to allow the car to drive while they read a book or something. The downside, is that it really doesn't serve any purpose to begin with (who really needs it to "relieve driver fatigue" - get a hotel!) and in the scenario where it really could save a life (having an incapacitating medical event) it fails because it disengages!
Related-How about the Boeing problem? The anti-stall system that was designed to prevent crashes is causing crashes, a danger caused by a safety system.
I do not recall hearing about those planes crashing from a stall condition so, why was the system implemente? It seems that not stalling an aircraft (of any type or size) should be pilot skills 101. So, are pilots now becoming over reliant on auto-pilot systems, complacent, and loosing their "seat of the pants" feel and ability to fly VFR? I am not a pilot by any means so, maybe I am way off. Pilots reading this feel free to call me out!
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post #17 of 29 Old 04-05-2019, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
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Related-How about the Boeing problem? The anti-stall system that was designed to prevent crashes is causing crashes, a danger caused by a safety system.
I do not recall hearing about those planes crashing from a stall condition so, why was the system implemente? It seems that not stalling an aircraft (of any type or size) should be pilot skills 101. So, are pilots now becoming over reliant on auto-pilot systems, complacent, and loosing their "seat of the pants" feel and ability to fly VFR? I am not a pilot by any means so, maybe I am way off. Pilots reading this feel free to call me out!
We could go back and forth all day long on this. Passenger aircraft have a high level of computerized flight control systems and they have had them for decades now. They are there to actually make it relatively easy to fly the aircraft, and fly it safely. In fact on some aircraft designs, it would be next to impossible, if not impossible to fly the aircraft without a computerized flight control system - the military's V22 Osprey is one example that comes to mind. There are many more. As for Boeing, a stall mitigation system wouldn't be something new to an aircraft. Their problem is that apparently there was a poor design and/or software AND improperly trained pilots. There were several other incidents where properly trained pilots encountered the same situation and knew enough to turn the system in question off in order to regain control of the aircraft.

There have been all kinds of improvements in auto safety over the years. Early on, it was in the form of physical design characteristics, equipment, and materials. Now we are talking about the addition of sensors, etc. As long as they are designed as an additional layer of safety and they are designed to "fail safe" if/when they fail, and they are not implemented in such a way that they will make your average driver pay LESS attention to the driving situation, they are a GOOD thing.
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post #18 of 29 Old 04-08-2019, 11:03 AM
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I noticed today that the IIHS has tested the 2019 RAV4 headlights and rated them "Marginal".

In all other safety categories, the 2019 RAV4 got the IIHS highest "Good" or "Good+" ratings.

The new RAV4 had been at the top of our list for replacing my wife's 2012 Prius v Five but we were waiting on the IIHS headlight ratings. As favorable as all the other IIHS safety ratings are, there is no way we are going to consider a vehicle that has "Marginal" headlights and we're not even going to bother to test drive a new RAV4.

Toyota needs to get their $#!+ together if it's wants to continue selling vehicles to geezers like us.

I hope Toyota takes quick action on this like Tesla did when their Model 3 got unfavorable headlight rating from the IIHS. Tesla made a running production change so that headlights on the Model 3 manufactured after June 2018 got the IIHS highest "Good" rating.
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post #19 of 29 Old 04-11-2019, 01:50 PM
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Oh my goodness,
Safety systems are there for a reason. Period.

People come in all shapes, sizes, colours, education, driving abilities, driving experience, alert, non-alert, tired, on drugs, careless, responsible, irresponsible, etc etc etc.

Not everyone is a “Car Guy/gal” “Driving aficionado.”
People, ALL PEOPLE, ARE IMPERFECT. We are all Imperfect. We all make mistakes, we all do dumb things. We all have accidents of one kind or another, and some through No Fault of our own.

Sure, you or I or maybe most people on this forum, don’t really need these Safety Systems,
But they are there for a Reason - to Help People. To help people make less mistakes, and hopefully safe a life or an injury. To help that yahoo from hitting You. Blah blah blah.

You don’t like Safety Systems? Turn them off, pull the fuse, whatever.
Are we over-Safety-systemed?? Ya, probably.

Like, Be Thankful you Have a freak’n car.
Be Thankful you can drive.
Be Thankful you can afford a nice, quality vehicle, and that you can drive wherever, whenever you want.

Whatever.


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post #20 of 29 Old 04-20-2019, 11:56 AM
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So I was heavily leaning toward the RAV4 XSE, but after seeing the IIHS rating on headlights as Mediocre I was very concerned. It seems other people are too. Is this a deal breaker? My current vehicle is a 2008 Rav4. Headlights are not safety rated at all. What are others thoughts on this issue?
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post #21 of 29 Old 04-20-2019, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKMayes View Post
So I was heavily leaning toward the RAV4 XSE, but after seeing the IIHS rating on headlights as Mediocre I was very concerned. It seems other people are too. Is this a deal breaker? My current vehicle is a 2008 Rav4. Headlights are not safety rated at all. What are others thoughts on this issue?

IIHS only tested '19s with standard LED headlights, they didn't test any trim with LED Projector headlights which all HVs have EXCEPT the LE HV which has the same headlights as the gas models, they also didn't test the Limited HV with adaptive headlights, the LED Projector headlights on the previous gen HV got an acceptable rating.
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post #22 of 29 Old 04-20-2019, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKMayes View Post
So I was heavily leaning toward the RAV4 XSE, but after seeing the IIHS rating on headlights as Mediocre I was very concerned. It seems other people are too. Is this a deal breaker? My current vehicle is a 2008 Rav4. Headlights are not safety rated at all. What are others thoughts on this issue?
Test drive it at night and see if the headlights are decent enough for you. The problem is, however, that a "seat of the pants" evaluation doesn't mean much. For example, many people tend to think that headlights that produce excess foreground light are good when excess foreground light has been found to be dangerous and cause drivers to focus on the near instead of looking into the distance for hazards. (Sorry, automotive lighting has been a primary interest since the 1960's.)

As I said a couple of posts back in this thread, I was thinking the new RAV4 was going to be the perfect replacement for my wife's 2012 Prius v Five until I saw the RAV4 headlight ratings. Our Prius v LED headlights weren't rated by the IIHS either but I think we got lucky since the 2015 Prius v LED headlights were the first to get the IIHS highest "Good" rating.

As much as I like Toyota products - enough to be a TMC shareholder - I'm not going to even consider a Toyota vehicle or one from any other car maker that has headlights rated "marginal" by the IIHS. I trust the IIHS headlight ratings based on my experience in rental cars. I had a rude awaking in January when I failed to check the IIHS headlight ratings before I accepted a rental Kia Sedona - IIHS should have rated them "Dangerous" instead of "Poor". I returned the Kia to the rental company and exchanged it for a 2019 Camry with headlights rated "Acceptable" by the IIHS.

I believe in "voting with my feet" by purchasing vehicles that meet our needs and that are safe based on current information. Maybe the "Marginal" headlights on the 2019 RAV4 are adequate for younger people with "young eyes" but good headlights become much more important as people age. There's no way my 71 year old wife is going to drive a RAV4 that has headlights rated "Marginal" by the IIHS. I'm confident I can find other vehicles that meet our needs that have headlights that get the IIHS highest "Good" rating.

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post #23 of 29 Old 04-20-2019, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quickdtoo View Post
IIHS only tested '19s with standard LED headlights, they didn't test any trim with LED Projector headlights which all HVs have EXCEPT the LE HV which has the same headlights as the gas models, they also didn't test the Limited HV with adaptive headlights, the LED Projector headlights on the previous gen HV got an acceptable rating.
That is very good news if it is true. I have to wonder since this information is not in the RAV4 sales brochure like it is for other current Toyotas on which some higher trims have projector and/or adaptive LED headlights.

I would appreciate it if you would provide a source for this information.

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post #24 of 29 Old 04-20-2019, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AKMayes View Post
So I was heavily leaning toward the RAV4 XSE, but after seeing the IIHS rating on headlights as Mediocre I was very concerned. It seems other people are too. Is this a deal breaker? My current vehicle is a 2008 Rav4. Headlights are not safety rated at all. What are others thoughts on this issue?
The best thing for you to do would be to take one for a test drive after dark if you have a local dealer that is open late enough. If not, since your a current Rav owner, and assuming you have the dealer service your vehicle (or even it not), maybe they could put you in a loaner overnight for little $$. That way you can compare to what you're used to and see if you're happy with it.

I had both a 2015 and 2018 LE with "regular" (Halogen?) bulbs. The 2018 used projectors. Head light performance was comparable between those two from what I can remember although the 2018 high beam pattern was a little different - it had more of a triangular center beam emphasis. Anyway, I now have a 2019 LE and when I first drove it at night I remember thinking that the 2018 was better. Part of it was color temperature difference. At this point, with around 3k on the 2019, I think that the low beams are just "okay" and the high beams are pretty decent. Overall, I think that the headlights could use improvement. The auto high beams don't work reliably enough in my opinion.
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post #25 of 29 Old 04-20-2019, 02:22 PM
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Thanks for the input. I will see if I can get a loaner for overnight to test the headlights. It's hard to fathom that the 2019's wouldn't have better headlights than my 2008, but I do a lot of driving at night and didn't want to risk "Marginal" headlights. I tried to ask the salesman about it, but he was too busy blowing smoke to say anything that I could believe. Sounds like the Limited HV would be the best bet, but I love the paint pattern of the XSE. So was very torn.
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post #26 of 29 Old 04-20-2019, 02:44 PM
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Specs have been available since November 2018 in the Product Info downloads, Toyota has yet to publish a Rav4 HV ebrochure.

https://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota....ifications.htm
https://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota....ifications.htm

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post #27 of 29 Old 04-20-2019, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Quickdtoo View Post
Specs have been available since November 2018 in the Product Info downloads, Toyota has yet to publish a Rav4 HV ebrochure.

https://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota....ifications.htm
https://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota....ifications.htm
Thank you! That projector and adaptive headlights are available on the RAV4 hybrid could be very good news. Toyota's reflector LED headlights on some other new models haven't been rated very highly by the IIHS but the projector versions have been rated higher. Adaptive LED headlights on some other current Toyotas have been rated even higher by the IIHS. Of course this isn't going to help those who don't want a hybrid RAV4 but my wife does want one to replace her hybrid Prius.

I assume the reason the IIHS hasn't rated the hybrid RAV4 headlights is because the RAV4 hybrid has not been available for them to test. When we sat in a 2019 RAV4 a few months ago, we were told that the hybrid version was not yet available.

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Last edited by ToyoJim; 04-20-2019 at 04:36 PM.
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post #28 of 29 Old 04-23-2019, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyoJim View Post
I assume the reason the IIHS hasn't rated the hybrid RAV4 headlights is because the RAV4 hybrid has not been available for them to test. When we sat in a 2019 RAV4 a few months ago, we were told that the hybrid version was not yet available.
This is correct. I contacted the IIHS near the end of March to inquire about when the crash test results would be available for the 2019 RAV4. Their email response indicated that they were waiting for a hybrid version to test two headlights (presumably the projector LED and the adaptive LED headlights). They said there was a few weeks wait for the hybrid version to arrive.

The week after I got their email, IIHS posted crash test results for the 2019 model but with 'marginal' rating for the headlights. So the marginal rating is definitely for the LED headlights on the non-hybrid models.
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post #29 of 29 Old 04-24-2019, 03:20 PM
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the '19 rav4 will probably be rated as a "top safety pick" or "plus" once they test the hybrid projector headlights with AFS. toyota along with other brands know how to play the game of only having certain features on certain models and having an umbrella effect on lesser models. so lets say a '19 sonata that has a "plus" designation for all models but in reality its only for models with the optional headlights and optional foward collision warning

that being said i have rented a '19 rav4 limited and the reflector style headlights did a beautiful job at lighting up the road without much glare...... this is coming from someone who is a "headlight junkie" and have been driving with retrofitted HID projector headlights in every car i have had for 10 years. the IIHS test is very specific so what they consider "good" headlights is hard to achieve

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