Is it just me, or the 2019 Avalon isn't selling well at all? - Page 22 - Toyota Nation Forum : Toyota Car and Truck Forums
Avalon 5th Generation (2019+) Specific discussion of the fifth generation Toyota Avalon

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post #316 of 371 Old 06-20-2019, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by 19TAHL View Post
The CrossClimate + has been around for several years in Europe and has won numerous awards. Theyíve just being introduced/promoted in the US. All the tests show they are indeed a superior all-season tire, especially on snow and ice, albeit at a premium. The Bridgestones are junk in comparison. Iíd rather pay extra to avoid a wreck in bad weather, or good weather for that matter. Remember, only your tires touch the pavement on your car, and avoiding a wreck is a game of inches, not dollars.
i'm surprised when sometimes performance cars like Audi R8 come equipped with tires that aren't the best that are available but the idea that a mainstream near-luxury car like Avalon should be equipped with nothing less than the best possible tires is odd to me ...

if you want every single bit of performance and safety to be had in rain and snow you really should be looking for cars with all wheel drive of which there are plenty available such as the VW Arteon for example ...

the point of Avalon and Toyotas in general is that you get a lower cost of ownership versus something like Audi or Volvo which would have been better in winter with available AWD ...

having reasonably priced tires with reasonably long life is one of the many things that go into keeping the cost of ownership low along with things like ability to run on regular gas and so on ...

i am OK with Avalon not having AWD because that eliminates an extra point of failure and saves about 150 lbs and 1 or 2 mpg or so ...

i'm also OK with having cheaper tires that are still good. i recently replaced one because of a puncture in a spot that tire folks deemed impossible to patch reliably and the tire cost barely half of what the 19" continentals on my 5 series with sport package cost to replace - that's a win to me !
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post #317 of 371 Old 06-20-2019, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19TAHL View Post
The CrossClimate + has been around for several years in Europe and has won numerous awards. Theyíve just being introduced/promoted in the US. All the tests show they are indeed a superior all-season tire, especially on snow and ice, albeit at a premium. The Bridgestones are junk in comparison. Iíd rather pay extra to avoid a wreck in bad weather, or good weather for that matter. Remember, only your tires touch the pavement on your car, and avoiding a wreck is a game of inches, not dollars.
Awards and new tires tests mean very little, most of the new tires perform very well, but things change 20K miles later. Michelin is using softer outer compounds for nicer quieter and drippier ride at the beginning to impress new owners and stiffer, noisier and of course less grippy compounds for longer wear and less premature wear warranty claims. Not saying the Climate+ is built by the same standards, but looking at the specs, I have my suspicions.
I had 5-6 different Michelin tires over the years and none of them lived up to my expectations that were based on specs, tests and price.
And the original Climate was a pretty average and very overrated tire, same as Hydroedge and many other Michelins, but maybe the new Climate + is better, IDK.

2017 Avalon XLE premium
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post #318 of 371 Old 06-25-2019, 03:57 PM
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I drove the Arteon over the weekend and while sexy and alluring on the outside, it certainly is not a luxury car.

My son has a 2019 Jetta and the general experience of the Arteon is very similar. It shares switchgear and many interior components with the $20,000 Jetta. The engine sounds the same and it just feels like a bigger Jetta when driving. While it rode smoothly and handled well, the Arteon is not worth close to twice the price of a Jetta.

It may have competed in the Camry and Accord class if it were priced $10,000 lower in all trim levels, however the interiors of the Camry, Accord and Mazda 6 are far more upscale. The Arteonís interior comes across as cheap and is nothing special. The Accordís 2 liter turbo is quieter, smoother and more responsive, and the exhaust gases of Camryís V6 would simply melt any Arteon in itís wake.

It is completely outclassed by the Avalon in terms of material quality, quietness, refinement and overall driving experience. The 2 liter turbo may have the same output as my 2018 Avalon, but the horses were asleep because the Arteon felt lethargic while the Avalon is very lively and responsive.

The top trim SEL Premium R-Line has an MSRP of over $47,000 which is completely insane. If anyone loves the looks of the Arteon, an Audi S5 Sportback with a beautiful interior can be had for only a few thousand more, and there are many other opulent choices in this price range.

Volkswagen really missed the mark on this one. If this were equipped with VW's 3.6 liter V6 and a better interior it may have had a chance but in this case, beauty really is only skin deep.
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post #319 of 371 Old 06-26-2019, 11:26 AM
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^ +1 the same way like despite all PR the CC never competed with the ES350, the Arteon will not get successful in the US.

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post #320 of 371 Old 06-26-2019, 12:18 PM
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I definitely see more ES350's than Avalons.
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post #321 of 371 Old 06-26-2019, 12:22 PM
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Best tire out there is the Bridgestone Turanza quiettrack.
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post #322 of 371 Old 06-26-2019, 12:22 PM
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It amazes me how these manufacturers constantly miss the mark. When VW introduced the CC, I thought it looked amazing but I discovered that it was small and expensive with only a turbo 4, and it was just a 4 seater (I'm not kidding).

I leased a Maxima instead which offered far more value for the money and a real engine. When the Maxima lease was up I looked at the CC again as by then VW offered it with the 3.6 V6 as an option, and seating for 5 (Eureka?), all for around $45,000! A miss for VW again as I leased another Maxima which was almost $10,000 cheaper and a lot more car. Now the Arteon repeats the same failed story.

Most manufacturers may be abandoning V6ís in favor of complex turbo 4ís but they donít appear to have any advantages over a V6. There is no fuel consumption advantage, and the T4cyls donít deliver the same immediate, silky smooth and quiet refined power, or the prospective durability of a low stressed V6.

Toyota may be the holdout, however this is clearly their advantage as the Avalon and top level Camrys are best overall in their respective market spaces for value, power and refinement. Iíll be keeping my Avalon.
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post #323 of 371 Old 06-26-2019, 02:51 PM
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I think you see more ES350s than Avalons, because the lease on the Lexus is less than on the Avalon with same mileage and term and comparable trims.


To purchase, the Avalon is the better deal. I bought mine 2019 Avalon Hybrid Limited with ASP) at a great price, because the Lexus (300h in my case) got too expensive. Lexus is the winner in a lease though.
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post #324 of 371 Old 06-26-2019, 04:47 PM
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I am holding out for depreciation to hit. Shouldn't be too long at this rate!

The dealer by me has an XLE for $32k and limited for $36k

Debating if I'd rather have the limited over XLE. I don't want the sun roof and rougher ride overall.

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post #325 of 371 Old 06-26-2019, 05:12 PM
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The cooled seats, birds Eye camera and real GPS Made the limited my choice
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post #326 of 371 Old 06-26-2019, 06:20 PM
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I don't honestly care about gps and birds eye view. I do like the real leather and cooled seats, that's it. I'm debating if I'm better off getting a 2005 ls430 base over an 2019 Avalon! I only care about quietness and ride comfort over junk infotainment and safety aids.
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post #327 of 371 Old 06-26-2019, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvalonPremium35 View Post
I drove the Arteon over the weekend and while sexy and alluring on the outside, it certainly is not a luxury car.

My son has a 2019 Jetta and the general experience of the Arteon is very similar. It shares switchgear and many interior components with the $20,000 Jetta. The engine sounds the same and it just feels like a bigger Jetta when driving. While it rode smoothly and handled well, the Arteon is not worth close to twice the price of a Jetta.

It may have competed in the Camry and Accord class if it were priced $10,000 lower in all trim levels, however the interiors of the Camry, Accord and Mazda 6 are far more upscale. The Arteonís interior comes across as cheap and is nothing special. The Accordís 2 liter turbo is quieter, smoother and more responsive, and the exhaust gases of Camryís V6 would simply melt any Arteon in itís wake.

It is completely outclassed by the Avalon in terms of material quality, quietness, refinement and overall driving experience. The 2 liter turbo may have the same output as my 2018 Avalon, but the horses were asleep because the Arteon felt lethargic while the Avalon is very lively and responsive.

The top trim SEL Premium R-Line has an MSRP of over $47,000 which is completely insane. If anyone loves the looks of the Arteon, an Audi S5 Sportback with a beautiful interior can be had for only a few thousand more, and there are many other opulent choices in this price range.

Volkswagen really missed the mark on this one. If this were equipped with VW's 3.6 liter V6 and a better interior it may have had a chance but in this case, beauty really is only skin deep.
Iíve always thought Volkswagens are overrated.
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post #328 of 371 Old 06-26-2019, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Barbecue Tech Tips View Post
I don't honestly care about gps and birds eye view. I do like the real leather and cooled seats, that's it. I'm debating if I'm better off getting a 2005 ls430 base over an 2019 Avalon! I only care about quietness and ride comfort over junk infotainment and safety aids.
Sounds like you would be happiest with the XLE.
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post #329 of 371 Old 06-28-2019, 08:12 PM
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Well, I finally saw another 2019 Toyota Avalon out in the wild yesterday.
It was a sharp looking Limited in Parisian Night Pearl with a Cognac interior.
Parisian Night Pearl was our second color choice, but weíre thrilled with our Ruby Flare Pearl Limited w/Cognac that we bought back in March.

2019 Toyota Avalon Limited V6: Ruby Flare Pearl, Cognac interior, with Advanced Safety and Protection Package.
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post #330 of 371 Old 07-01-2019, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvalonPremium35 View Post
I drove the Arteon over the weekend and while sexy and alluring on the outside, it certainly is not a luxury car.

My son has a 2019 Jetta and the general experience of the Arteon is very similar. It shares switchgear and many interior components with the $20,000 Jetta. The engine sounds the same and it just feels like a bigger Jetta when driving. While it rode smoothly and handled well, the Arteon is not worth close to twice the price of a Jetta.

It may have competed in the Camry and Accord class if it were priced $10,000 lower in all trim levels, however the interiors of the Camry, Accord and Mazda 6 are far more upscale. The Arteonís interior comes across as cheap and is nothing special. The Accordís 2 liter turbo is quieter, smoother and more responsive, and the exhaust gases of Camryís V6 would simply melt any Arteon in itís wake.

It is completely outclassed by the Avalon in terms of material quality, quietness, refinement and overall driving experience. The 2 liter turbo may have the same output as my 2018 Avalon, but the horses were asleep because the Arteon felt lethargic while the Avalon is very lively and responsive.

The top trim SEL Premium R-Line has an MSRP of over $47,000 which is completely insane. If anyone loves the looks of the Arteon, an Audi S5 Sportback with a beautiful interior can be had for only a few thousand more, and there are many other opulent choices in this price range.

Volkswagen really missed the mark on this one. If this were equipped with VW's 3.6 liter V6 and a better interior it may have had a chance but in this case, beauty really is only skin deep.
the Arteon seems to be in the same predicament as Avalon - the corporate overlords are keeping it down to make sure it doesn't take market share from Audi / Lexus

VW could have as easily put the VR6 engine into Arteon as Toyota could have put panoramic moonroof in Avalon but that would be ... dangerous
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