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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm curious to see if anyone else with a TAH has observed a slight "shudder" or vibration when lightly applying throttle to maintain speed on a level or slight downhill road. I only notice it happening around 38-45 MPH. It doesn't happen under acceleration or when the vehicle is coasting. Also interesting to note that when the car drops in "EV" mode and shuts off the ICE, the shudder/vibration stops.

I've searched quite a bit for these symptoms and haven't found anything relating to TAH. I did find some posts on the Camry forum regarding something similar relating to '12-'14 and a torque converter shudder recall. (http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/601-toyota-recalls/936289-limited-service-campaign-certain-2012-2014-camry.html#post8132153)

I realize the non-hybrid transmission is quite a bit different than the hybrid CVT, but I find it odd that the symptoms described over there are very similar.

There are no open recalls for my VIN. Thanks!
 

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I have a 14 TAH Limited and have had that symptom since it was new. The dealer says it is a tire balance problem and they I have a bad tire. The oem tires were the Bridgestone POS tires so I bought that diagnosis. About 2000 miles ago, at 25000 miles, I put the Pirelli Centurato Plus all weather 215-55-17 as a replacement tire. The shaking persists and I have not yet been back to the dealer for additional diagnostic visit. I wanted to get a few miles on the tires and have them rebalanced immediately prior to the dealer service visit. Thanks for letting me know that I am not the only one with this problem. I will return here and give an update when I get that done in the next four weeks or so.


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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It will certainly be interesting to see what they say this time around. I bought this vehicle used a few months ago, and I'm starting to wonder if this shudder was one of the reasons the previous owner traded it in. I took a look at the vehicle history on the toyota onwers website and one of entries is a generic "diagnostic request" at 20k miles. The car also has mismatched tires front and rear. Dunlop Signature II's on the front and Multi-Mile Grand Tour on the rear.

I'm fairly positive this shudder issue is not tire related. There is a certain stretch of road I travel which causes the issue. I only get the shudder when lightly applying the throttle. If I accelerate prior to and coast through that same stretch at the same speed, no shudder occurs.

I saw 3 tests described which may indicate a torque converter issue. I'm not sure if they apply to the the TAH, but they are:

1. When the shudder occurs, keep the throttle in the same position and gently apply the breaks with the other foot.
2. When the shudder occurs, move the gear selector into S mode and see if it stops.
3. A Toyota technician needs to use techstream to data log while the car is experiencing the behavior.

This issue isn't terrible right now, but it's noticeable enough to be an annoyance. It's also fine if that's just how these vehicles operate, but I don't want to be in a situation where something with the transmission is eating itself and will only manifest into a bigger problem once the warranty has expired.

Good luck with your service visit and I look forward to see what you are able to find out.
 

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It will certainly be interesting to see what they say this time around. I bought this vehicle used a few months ago, and I'm starting to wonder if this shudder was one of the reasons the previous owner traded it in. I took a look at the vehicle history on the toyota onwers website and one of entries is a generic "diagnostic request" at 20k miles. The car also has mismatched tires front and rear. Dunlop Signature II's on the front and Multi-Mile Grand Tour on the rear.

I'm fairly positive this shudder issue is not tire related. There is a certain stretch of road I travel which causes the issue. I only get the shudder when lightly applying the throttle. If I accelerate prior to and coast through that same stretch at the same speed, no shudder occurs.

I saw 3 tests described which may indicate a torque converter issue. I'm not sure if they apply to the the TAH, but they are:

1. When the shudder occurs, keep the throttle in the same position and gently apply the breaks with the other foot.
2. When the shudder occurs, move the gear selector into S mode and see if it stops.
3. A Toyota technician needs to use techstream to data log while the car is experiencing the behavior.

This issue isn't terrible right now, but it's noticeable enough to be an annoyance. It's also fine if that's just how these vehicles operate, but I don't want to be in a situation where something with the transmission is eating itself and will only manifest into a bigger problem once the warranty has expired.

Good luck with your service visit and I look forward to see what you are able to find out.
1) I'm a firm believer of high-quality, name-brand tires, especially on a new car. While different-axle mismatched tires shouldn't be a problem, I'd consider replacing tires, especially the rear. You're driving a "high-end", sophisticated vehicle that deserves quality tires (I LOVE my hi-priced OEM Michelins...super smooth, quiet).
2)"...a certain stretch of road..." My 2015 Leaf (Bridgestone Ecopias...not great, IMO) is very road-surface sensitive. There are 2 stretches of roadway, at a certain speed (different!), that convince me I've got a tire out of balance. Nope: it's the road surface.
3) I haven't checked on my 2014 TAH, but on previous "drive-by-wire" cars that I've owned, applying the throttle and brake at the same time actually shuts off fuel, confuses the computer.
4) As noted above, there is no torque converter.

I suggest your issue is tire related, not transmission.

I have 2 hybrids and one all electric vehicles. They all have different, and sometimes unnerving clicks/whirs/whines/buzzes. I, too, am learning to note what is consistent (they change with ambient temp, too...ARGGH!) I understand your concern when you notice something odd about what is an otherwise seamless power delivery. I recommend you make certain your concern is documented in the Toyota computer system, with the exact date and mileage when your concern was first noticed.

Hope this helps!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the responses regarding the transmission not having a torque converter, that closes down my original train of thought. I was leaning on that idea pretty heavily because the vibration feels more drive train-ish to me rather than a wheel/tire issue. I figure a wheel issue may be felt more so through the steering wheel. On the other hand this sensation feels more floor pan/chassis like. I drove quite a few manual transmission cars over the years and this almost feels like a "lugging" vibration similar to when you select a gear which is too high for the acceleration you need, but at a much more subtle level.

I'll take you up on the suggestion to get it documented.
Thanks again.
 

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You may already know this, but better tire shops should have equipment that "road balances" tires. This equipment forces a roller against the tire while it is checking the balance. It is much more accurate at detecting tire-related anomalies than less sophisticated equipment.

I would have all tires road-force balanced. Maybe you'll find a tire/wheel issue.

Good luck!
 

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It's most likely ICE engaging and disengaging. It is very typical concern with new owners. Then we simply get used to all small jerks and shudders.
I bought one, then second hybrid for one and only reason - VERY smooth operation. yes, I do have dem quirks, but I am not worried about them.
 

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I'm curious to see if anyone else with a TAH has observed a slight "shudder" or vibration when lightly applying throttle to maintain speed on a level or slight downhill road. I only notice it happening around 38-45 MPH. It doesn't happen under acceleration or when the vehicle is coasting. Also interesting to note that when the car drops in "EV" mode and shuts off the ICE, the shudder/vibration stops.

I've searched quite a bit for these symptoms and haven't found anything relating to TAH. I did find some posts on the Camry forum regarding something similar relating to '12-'14 and a torque converter shudder recall. (http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/601-toyota-recalls/936289-limited-service-campaign-certain-2012-2014-camry.html#post8132153)

I realize the non-hybrid transmission is quite a bit different than the hybrid CVT, but I find it odd that the symptoms described over there are very similar.

There are no open recalls for my VIN. Thanks!
HSD doesn't have a torque converter. There is a direct connection between the PSD and the ICE via a device that looks like the center of a manual transmission clutch - that's supposed to reduce vibration to the PSD.

As to your vibration - is the ICE on or off when that happens? A slight shudder is often felt and perfectly normal when the ICE starts after you've been running on electricity. If you're old enough to remember, it feels like a carburated car with the accelerator pump that's a bit off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
HSD doesn't have a torque converter. There is a direct connection between the PSD and the ICE via a device that looks like the center of a manual transmission clutch - that's supposed to reduce vibration to the PSD.

As to your vibration - is the ICE on or off when that happens? A slight shudder is often felt and perfectly normal when the ICE starts after you've been running on electricity. If you're old enough to remember, it feels like a carburated car with the accelerator pump that's a bit off.
ICE is on... usually on a flat or slightly downhill road. Usually after I've accelerated and maintaining speed but before the ICE has a chance to shut off and run in EV mode.

Additionally, I do notice the transition between ICE and no ICE that you mention. This is definitely a different feeling.
 

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Recent update. I got my Pirelli tires rebalanced and a 4 wheel alignment. The rear toe was out on the alignment. The shudder at 42ish is gone. I attribute it to the tires. The crappy bridgestones did it all the time. Just an update since I had the stones in the past and the shudder problems too.


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ICE is on... usually on a flat or slightly downhill road. Usually after I've accelerated and maintaining speed but before the ICE has a chance to shut off and run in EV mode.

Additionally, I do notice the transition between ICE and no ICE that you mention. This is definitely a different feeling.


Your original post and the above synopsis of the problem sounds like it could be an ICE misfire due to a weak ignition coil, spark plug or wiring/connection. This condition usually does not set a diagnostic trouble code (DTC) until the problem gets worse. It could also result from something that causes a lean fuel mixture and resulting misfire. I would focus on the ICE, not the transmission. As already mentioned, the transmission does not have a torque converter.
 

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Ox88: Have you had the tires checked? Alignment?
 
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