18.5 gallons. . . The Book Lies!!!!!!!!

5074 Views 35 Replies 16 Participants Last post by 73sport, Sep 18, 2010

73sport

Discussion Starter · Sep 16, 2010

18.5 gallons. . . The Book Lies!!!!!!!!

Ran the V6 out of gas last night for the first time in 6 years of ownership. I was less than 1/2 mile from fuel and she said enoughs enough and shut down. I felt it stumble a once around a corner and made it about 1/2 mile after that. Yes, i knew i was rolling the dice but the numbers said it'd make it. . . :facepalm:

The burn; I added 1/2 gallon and drove the 1/2 mile and filled it to the rim with 16.5 gallons!!!! WTF? Everything I've read says it holds 18.5g! In April of this year I had the fuel pump and sock out, there are no holes in the sock. So at best it holds 17g????

The most I've ever put in it is 16.5g.

So my question is, what is the MOST fuel in Gallons you've pumped into your 1995 J-vin 4 door sedan V6?

Thanks

FWIW; No - the fuel tank is not crushed. . .

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

projektvertx

· #2 · Sep 16, 2010

Yeah, I've always had my doubts about that number. Most I've been able to fill is 17 gallons and some change with the light on. I'd assume tank capacity is ~ 17.5 gallons, as opposed to 18.5. And this is to the brim of the fuel filler neck.

I'm thinking out loud here, but maybe the fuel pump takes up that extra gallon of room in the tank? Anyone?

fenixus

· #3 · Sep 16, 2010

just shooting some ideas ... maybe the bottom center of tank is a little pushed up (e.g. someone tried jacking car up by bump in center of tank?), so it's not crushed and not even visible, but still the bottom is uneven and that missing fuel stays around the center (and fuel pump cannot use it) ?

... or maybe fuel tank has some gunk on bottom (but a gallon of gunk sounds scary...) ...

SilverSoarer

· #4 · Sep 16, 2010

The remainder 1.5 gallons is in the gooseneck (cylidrical volume calculus).

73sport

Discussion Starter · #5 · Sep 16, 2010

fenixus said:
just shooting some ideas ... maybe the bottom center of tank is a little pushed up (e.g. someone tried jacking car up by bump in center of tank?), so it's not crushed and not even visible, but still the bottom is uneven and that missing fuel stays around the center (and fuel pump cannot use it) ?

... or maybe fuel tank has some gunk on bottom (but a gallon of gunk sounds scary...) ...

No No No No NOOOOOOO! Its perfect. . . .

As for the junk in the trunk (the tank in this case) I think not. I turned the key, let it sit for a few seconds and then started it. It fired off instantly idling just fine so my added capacity is unlikely a blob of water or goose poop ect. . .

So we have the fuel neck, the fuel line, fuel filter, and the fuel rail??? If it was "Dry" capacity I think they would have specified that and I doubt the fill neck holds 1.5gallons.

I think what is probable is that it A) may hold 18g but you just can use it at low RPM. At a high RPM under high consumption rates its possible the sock stays wet allowing consumption of all fuel. BUT - BUT, this year recirculates so that blows that theory out the window as the pump likely pumps near the same rate all the time.

Just looking to see what is the MOST anyone has pumped into their car. . .

eevee11

· #6 · Sep 16, 2010

SilverSoarer said:
The remainder 1.5 gallons is in the gooseneck (cylidrical volume calculus).

negative

filling the tank includes filling the gooseneck. he filled it, and only added 17 gal.

and it sounds cool but calculating volume of a cylinder does not require calculus, it is just multiplication! :lol::lol:

rusty9

· #7 · Sep 16, 2010

the most ive put in is a hair over 18 after i fixed my leaking tank. wish i saved the receipt, i was shocked that it took 18 after 10 years of filling up at 16ish driving with the light on for days lol

projektvertx

· #8 · Sep 16, 2010

73sport said:
So we have the fuel neck, the fuel line, fuel filter, and the fuel rail??? If it was "Dry" capacity I think they would have specified that and I doubt the fill neck holds 1.5gallons.

.

In my experience, the fuel filler neck is about 1.3-1.4 gallons. From the click to when I reach to top of the neck is about that much usually... I mean consider the size of the fuel filter, even if it fits 500cc's, that's about 0.12 gallons. Factor in the fuel rails, the lines and the fuel pump, and you could easily be looking at a gallon.

fenixus said:
just shooting some ideas ... maybe the bottom center of tank is a little pushed up (e.g. someone tried jacking car up by bump in center of tank?), so it's not crushed and not even visible, but still the bottom is uneven and that missing fuel stays around the center (and fuel pump cannot use it) ?

... or maybe fuel tank has some gunk on bottom (but a gallon of gunk sounds scary...) ...

I doubt me and Randy have 1 gallon of gunk in our tanks:lol: But it's an idea! I like the dry capacity idea though, it would make sense.Considering the size of the fuel pump, the fuel filter, and fuel rail it just might be possible....

Gothmog3VZ

· #9 · Sep 16, 2010

fenixus said:
or maybe fuel tank has some gunk on bottom (but a gallon of gunk sounds scary...) ...

That's more than likely (I think I messed up my fuel filter earlier this week from a combination of that & filling right after the tanker left the gas station :headbang

.

I mean, let's face it, gasoline is always going to have some impurities in it (otherwise we wouldn't need fuel filters). over the course of 12-18 years... It builds up

fenixus

· #10 · Sep 16, 2010

well, hehe, i'm not sure how different fuel tanks are between generations, but i Believe it happened to me once or twice to pour in slightly above 18 gallons into the tank (until first click, soemthing like 18.1 and 18.3 other time on my 5s-fe gen4), so ... i don't know ...

I thought that tank capacity is the tank ONLY capacity, not including all the rest of the fuel system... I guess you won't know for sure until someone drops the tank and fills it off car to check

73sport

Discussion Starter · #11 · Sep 16, 2010

fenixus said:
... or maybe fuel tank has some gunk on bottom (but a gallon of gunk sounds scary...) ...

Less than 6 months ago I looked for gunk when the pump was out. Hmm . . . gunk that doesn't get sucked up and doesn't burn but just hides taking precious volume in my tank. eek:

Its reserve capacity that we can't use there to create this thread. . . .

LynchburgCSI

· #12 · Sep 16, 2010

SilverSoarer said:
cylidrical volume calculus.

:lol::facepalm: Riiiiiiiiight. Calculus for an algebraic equation? Nah.

Anyways, The most I ever put in my 5s-fe was about 17 gallons. This was on an EMPTY tank. IE- coasting into the gas station, engine sputtering at the last second. I always felt like they lied to me.

My Expedition takes 26.5 gallons for it's 28 gallon tank, too. Oh well.

Jason.MZW20

· #13 · Sep 16, 2010

Sure it just wasn't a fuel pickup problem? My Mitsubishi Diamante would do the same thing when rounding a corner low on gas, but it still had gas in the tank. Did you restart it at all before adding 1/2 gallon?

And with the newer EVAP systems, filling to the brim is just asking for EVAP codes (98+ 5SFE or 99+ 1MZ).

fenixus

· #14 · Sep 16, 2010

Jason.MZW20 said:
And with the newer EVAP systems, filling to the brim is just asking for EVAP codes (98+ 5SFE or 99+ 1MZ).

yeah, that's what i read too, filling past the overfill valve simply floods it and i think eventually destroys it.

Eye8Pussies

· #15 · Sep 16, 2010

the most I've ever put in my gen3 is 64L (16.5) I think it was....

the gen4/solara has a bigger tank though....I have filled up over 70L with that (18.5L)

so I'm not the only one who's been wondering about this all these years.....lol....

projektvertx

· #16 · Sep 16, 2010

I'm kinda surprised I didn't think about this a bit earlier. But fluids expand and contract with temperature. The fluid in you tank as well as the fluid being pumped out of the station. Now unless you are from Quebec (and Gothmog can vouch for me on this one), where they clearly state "Gas corrected to 15 degrees Celcius" on the pump, you are getting gas solely pumped by volume, not taking into account variations in temperature which will make density of the fluid vary. Take a look next time, at my station they clearly state "Gas dispensed solely by volume. This pump does not take into account factors such as temperature which may change the energy content of the product dispensed." Case in point: You are getting more "bang" when you fill up at -10F then when you fill up at 90F. While the pump says you get 10.000 gallons, you may be getting 9.933 gallons of corrected, actual, useable gasoline energy.

Maybe that's what we are all seing. As much as fuel providers account for variations in temperatures by changing blends to change vapor pressures in order to prevent the gasoline from become airborn (RVP, reid vapor pressure, is what they call it in the industry), or what keeps the gasoline as a liquid rather than a gas.

I guess the point of my ramble is: We are getting the short end of the stick by fuel providers (not surprising) and Toyota did the calibration at a certain temp, and what are the odds we are filling up gas at that tested temp? Over an 18.5 gallon tank and a potentially inaccurate manufacturing process of the tank itself, between the amount the system and pipework takes, combining pump error and density variations with the inevitable gunk buildup over time, I'm not surprised that a full tank is about 17 gallons at the age our cars are.

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73sport

Discussion Starter · #17 · Sep 16, 2010 (Edited)

Good Point and to add to that the current methanol blends in the US would make that worse. Fill temp and average temp has been roughly 65f or so. Underground temp = unknown! So we need the specific gravity of gas w/meth blend and some math for a volume correction? :disappoin

OR - how about this;
The amount in the bottom may simply be untouchable for a reason! Water (H2O) is heavier than gas. Having that buffer makes the car more reliable by not sucking up every once of Sh$t from the tanks bottom as the result would be engine shutdown if its not burnable.

So leaving this 1.0 gallon buffer at the bottom allows it to be stirred and mixed over time thus burning off small amounts of h2o or "whatever" without actually drowning the engine with something it can't burn. This is very beneficial in cold places where water freezes! :thumbsup:

And perhaps the Japanese literature lost some content like "dry capacity" during translation??? Rusty said his dry volume was 18g.

bronzemaxell

· #18 · Sep 16, 2010

last time i replaced the fuel pump in the gas tank, the inlet tube or filter that sucks the gas into the fuel line is not touching the bottom of the gas tank. i would imagine the volume is indeed 18.5 gallon, but ur camry not going to pump the last drop of gas + debris out of the gas tank

73sport

Discussion Starter · #19 · Sep 16, 2010

Jason.MZW20 said:
Sure it just wasn't a fuel pickup problem? My Mitsubishi Diamante would do the same thing when rounding a corner low on gas, but it still had gas in the tank. Did you restart it at all before adding 1/2 gallon?

And with the newer EVAP systems, filling to the brim is just asking for EVAP codes (98+ 5SFE or 99+ 1MZ).

Yea I started it a couple times. The last round to see if it would even though I was off the road. It fired and died instantly.

Funny thing, sense then (3x), its fired with a "blip" of the key whereby its normal MO is like 1.5seconds or so. Strange. . .

projektvertx

· #20 · Sep 16, 2010

73sport said:
Good Point and to add to that the current methanol blends in the US would make that worse. Fill temp and average temp has been roughly 65f or so. Underground temp = unknown! So we need the specific gravity of gas w/meth blend and some math for a volume correction? :disappoin

OR - how about this;
The amount in the bottom may simply be untouchable for a reason! Water (H2O) is heavier than gas. Having that buffer makes the car more reliable by not sucking up every once of Sh$t from the tanks bottom as the result would be engine shutdown if its not burnable.

So leaving this 1.0 gallon buffer at the bottom allows it to be stirred and mixed over time thus burning off small amounts of h2o or "whatever" without actually drowning the engine with something it can't burn. This is very beneficial in cold places where water freezes! :thumbsup:

And perhaps the Japanese literature lost some content like "dry capacity" during translation??? Rusty said his dry volume was 18g.

Good points, maybe it's a built in protection measure, and the gauge reads as if there is 17.5 gallons rather than 18.5

. And don't even get me started about methanol in gas:headbang::headbang::headbang: Stupid hippies medling in my gas and dropping my MPG by about 2MPG:thumbsdow

I'm willing to bet the "dry" was just lost in translation though, like ya said. Like rusty said, his dry fillup was 18 gallons....

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

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