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1986 22r SR5 running rough, won't start when warm. Advice?

860 Views 31 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  MikeHVA
I'm looking at purchasing an '86 Hilux SR5 with 22r, 5-speed manual, IFS, dual transfer cases, and about 220k miles. It's in the Pacific Northwest area. The owner says it's been sitting a while and runs rough, and after it's warmed up it has problems starting again until it's cooled off. Apparently the warm starting issue is a somewhat common problem with these that is sometimes a PITA to solve, but usually nothing major....but I'm a little more concerned about the fact that it runs rough when it does start.

I don't mind tracking down gremlins (fuel system, air leaks, coolant, sensors, electrical, etc.) but I really need to make sure this isn't symptomatic of a bigger problem (ie. head gasket or failing engine). What should I look for specifically on this engine to make sure it's not going tits up? Obviously check exhaust smell and color, check coolant for oil and oil for coolant, look for obvious oil or coolant leaks, but beyond the usual stuff, are there any other telltale signs on the 22r specifically that will give me an idea of it's overall health?

Also, any other common catastrophic things I should look out for? I know some of these had issues with rusted frames. What else? I usually get vehicles checked out by a mechanic before purchasing, but every decent shop is INSANELY busy right now, and this is priced such that it's gunna go FAST...so I think I'm on my own for diagnosis. Thanks fellas!

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· One with the farce
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If everything else has been tuned up, it’s probably the carb causing those issues. Spend a few bills and put a Weber 32/36 on it, good carb and easy to set up.
 

· just a nobody
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With 200k I would be more interested on what had been done to the vehicle!
Timing chain, head gasket, water pump, clutch, etc; if those items hasn't been done in those 220k, a good chance they would be needed some time down the road!
You need to take that into consideration as well!
The rough running issue could be cause by head gasket leaking, maybe?
Warm starting problem could be due to ignition system components.
If you don't mind dealing those issues, and the price is very good, then maybe...!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
With 200k I would be more interested on whay had been done to the vehicle!
Timing chain, head gasket, water pump, clutch, etc; if those items hasn't been done in those 220k, a good chance they would be needed some time down the road!
You need to take that into consideration as well!
The rough running issue could be cause by head gasket leaking, maybe?
Warm starting problem could be due to ignition system components.
If you don't mind dealing those issues, and the price is very good, then maybe...!
Yeah I'm going to ask him about all that. I think it's been sitting about 4 years....so that could explain a lot of it too. Hell, could just be bad fuel! Although this guy is a good mechanic/4x4 enthusiast so I'm guessing he would've already looked into that. Anyway, worst case scenario, if I need head gaskets (probably wise to do timing chain, chain guides, tensioners, water pump, etc. at the same time) how much $ do you think I'd be looking at? Just wanna factor this into the worst case (or damn near worst case) calculation. Plan for the worst, hope for the best, right? Thanks fellas!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If everything else has been tuned up, it’s probably the carb causing those issues. Spend a few bills and put a Weber 32/36 on it, good carb and easy to set up.
Yeah, carb is exactly what he thinks the issue is. And that's one very likely possibility....but from the reading I'm doing on this issue on these engines, it could be carb....it could also be wiring....or ECU....or sensors....or air leaks....or ignition....or IAC valve....or head gasket.....or timing related....or like 5 or 6 other things.
 

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rebuild the carb,, get a good kit,, you won't lose anything.. could not be worse after all these years and mileage, Take photos and diagrams of everything before you start, do it on clean towels with lots of light...
 

· One with the farce
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Yeah, carb is exactly what he thinks the issue is. And that's one very likely possibility....but from the reading I'm doing on this issue on these engines, it could be carb....it could also be wiring....or ECU....or sensors....or air leaks....or ignition....or IAC valve....or head gasket.....or timing related....or like 5 or 6 other things.
There’s minimal wiring, no iac and no ecu. The 22r carbs are notoriously crappy when old and worn, and trying to rebuild it will make you want to slam your head into a wall. Don’t buy a cheap aftermarket one either. This is all firsthand experience btw.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
There’s minimal wiring, no iac and no ecu. The 22r carbs are notoriously crappy when old and worn, and trying to rebuild it will make you want to slam your head into a wall. Don’t buy a cheap aftermarket one either. This is all firsthand experience btw.
Gotcha! I don't mind rebuilding it, but I wouldn't mind getting a little better performance than stock, and yeah, if I can save a ton of time and get a newer, more reliable part, maybe sell the old one to recoup some costs, that's a win. Sounds like the Weber is the way to go eh?
 

· just a nobody
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Depending on how far you want to go with the engine and who is doing the work; a few hundred on the parts for head gasket, timing chain work plus labor, just a guess!
Looking at the picture, the truck seems petty straight, if the other parts inspect good as well, it might be a fun project to deal with. How much though?
Indeed, 22R is very baisc, minimal sensors except for what is needed for the ignition! The carb can be a PITA, but if you don't mind spending time doing some diagnose, it is not too bad!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I ended up acquiring it. Everything looked amazing...incredibly little rust, beautiful interior. Clutch/tranny is solid and works great. Dude did head gasket job last weekend and checked timing chain and guides, set timing, did some other minor stuff (fuel pump, filter, distributor, wires, plugs, new battery). And yeah, I think you guys, and the previous owner are correct about the carb. It starts, runs pretty good, then pretty rough, and slowly starts chugging until it finally dies....it also runs VERY rich....tons of gas in the exhaust. Might be a simple air leak, but either way, I plan to install a new Weber carb with EGR delete, and of course all new vacuum lines. He threw in an aftermarket intake manifold I may add if it actually looks like an upgrade....might do a cold air intake mod at the same time to get a few extra horsies. Would love to add an exhaust manifold at some point, but that's later.

I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions for you guys as I work on bringing this thing back to life. In the mean time, here's a couple pics of her in my driveway with most of the gunk washed off! I'm f'ing STOKED! I fell in love with this truck as a kid seeing the one in Back To The Future. Fell in love with it again as an adult seeing it defeat Jeremy Clarkson and the crew of Top Gear.

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Oh, btw, $3500....maybe not a crazy deal for certain parts of the country, but in the PNW, anywhere near Seattle/Tacoma, with almost no rust, lockers, dual cases, IFS, good tires, that's a steal.
 

· One with the farce
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That’s great, good deal too I think. You’ll have fun with it! Pick up a repair manual for it though, it’ll be the best mod you can buy 😂
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Emailed Redline about what carb/kit I'll need with a full stock conversion to Weber w/ Offy dual port. In the mean time, I'm seeing very mixed opinions on the Holley Sniper EFI systems. Seems like a good alternative to a full RE swap, which isn't really something I wanna mess with. On one hand, I like the idea of a vehicle with no computers, simply operation, easy mechanical repair with minimal tools....on the other hand, it sounds like IF the EFI system works in your specific application (and that's a big IF), it's a pretty great upgrade in terms of reliability overall, reliability in varying conditions (incline, temp, altitude, etc.), HP/torque increase, gas mileage, etc.

That said, there's this (taken from Reddit)

"I did a bunch of research on it, but LCE ended up convincing me not to do it. They mentioned that over long periods of sustained driving (highways), that the fuel mapping will eventually burn out the engine, amoung other issues. They don't stock the kit for this reason, or didn't at the time I called them. I would call them and ask for a better explanation than I can give you."

I may call LCE and see if their explanation makes sense in my limited understanding of combustion engines and fuel systems. It sounds like a game of telephone may be occurring here, but I don't know what the hell "fuel mapping" means, or how it could lead to burning out an engine. As far as a carb or fuel injection system is concerned, fuel mixes with air and goes boom.....that's pretty much it in a non-EGR system. So how would one systems boom with the same air/fuel mixture, timing, etc. be any worse than another? I'm gunna call LCE....maybe they know something I don't know....imagine my surprise :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
BTW, thought about starting a new thread cause this is drifting a little, but it's still relevant to the original rough running/no warm start issue, so figured I'd keep it all in one place.
 

· just a nobody
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My understanding of fuel mapping, it is basically a chart that contains fuel control info to help the ecu with the injector control!
At this rpm, coolant temp, etc this is the amount of fuel needed; an overly simplified setup! Basically, on a feedback fuel control system that is capable of learning, it takes a bunch of sensor inputs and outputs, stored them into a chart, so it can refer back to control the fuel injectors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
My understanding of fuel mapping, it is basically a chart that contains fuel control info to help the ecu with the injector control!
At this rpm, coolant temp, etc this is the amount of fuel needed; an overly simplified setup! Basically, on a feedback fuel control system that is capable of learning, it takes a bunch of sensor inputs and outputs, stored them into a chart, so it can refer back to control the fuel injectors.
Gotcha...but after all that, whether it's a mechanical feedback system like in a carb, or a computer feedback system in an EFI, all the actual engine "sees" is a boom, that is defined by air, fuel, and spark. So unless the EFI is calibrated incorrectly and getting the air/fuel/spark mixture totally wrong (in which case I'm guessing the vehicle wouldn't run very well, which doesn't seem to be the case for most installs), I don't see how the boom from an EFI system could be worse for your engine than the boom from a carb system. All the processing or feedback or systems before the fact are kind of irrelevant as far as the engine itself is concerned, right? Again, all the engine "sees" in terms of wear and tear associated with a carb or EFI is combustion in the combustion chamber....or am I missing something? Again, limited knowledge of these systems. I know enough to know I don't know ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I will say I've seen some videos where an EFI allows higher revving that might be limited by a carb....or at least a poorly tuned carb. Obviously high-revving could lead to more wear on the engine....but that hardly seems like a fault in the EFI system....and could happen with a well-tuned carb too. So again, not seeing how extra wear and tear is really possible in a properly calibrated EFI. I could understand if it's screwing up the air fuel mixture, or idling super high or revving erratically or all over the place....but again, sounds like that isn't the case in most installs. Gunna hit the road in a second here and see if I can get LCE on the phone for a better explanation of what they're talking about (if the original claim from Reddit is even true).
 
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