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Almost 1/2 Million Miles!
92 Toyota Camry XLE
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1,791 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Guys,

I am rather stomped and do not know what to do "OR" even if I have to do anything at all.....:frown:

About two weeks ago, I had noticed a slight miss-fire at idle when I got out of the car to re-open the garage door as I had forgotten to get something before leaving the house. It was not that bad and thought it was just the engine warming up or bad gasoline.

Well, last week (Friday, November 21st) I attempted to drive my old beater (465,000+ original mile without any Engine Rebuilt history) to work instead of taking my Van Pool vehicle and I did not get too far as the Engine started to Lose Power and at the same time the CHECK ENGINE light came on in a momentary manner. In other words seconds later the ENGINE POWER came on and CHECK ENGINE light disappeared. As continue to drive it continue to do this so, I quickly made a U-TURN and came home and about four houses from my house, the ENGINE completely quit and quickly slipped the Automatic Transmission to Neutral and coasted the car up my driveway with just the last remaining momentum. I could not believe it!:surprise:

THINGS I DID:
1. I took out all Spark Plugs and 3 out of the 4 were full with Oil at the top.
2. Tightened the 30mm Nuts securing the Valve Cover (I had done a recent Valve Cover Gasket Replacement and never re-checked for re-tightening!)
3. Purchased premium Spark Plugs (NGK Platinum) and installed.
4. Sprayed Sea Foam Throttle Body Cleaner into Throttle Body during start up.
5. NOTE: At this point, I Never checked the inside of the Distributor Cap or Rotor).
6. After run up that night (Stationary) and at idle it ran very good.
7. Subsequent Test Drive resulted in the same exact conditions, except worse, the car at a STOP light just didn't have any power and no matter how much I depressed the Accelerator Peddle, it just didn't want to move. Only by waiting about one full minute did the ENGINE POWER come back again and wasted no time and came back to the driveway and yes, it quit two house away and brought it back up the driveway with just momentum.

NEXT DAY ITEMS:
I left my beloved Camry at home and took daughter's car to work and when I came back:
8. Purchased from Auto Zone a brand "NEW"complete Distributor and not a re-man distributor.
9. NOTE: By this point, I had ample opportunity to check the Distributor cap and rotor and yes, significant wear on the contacts, especially the middle post was observed to be very worn.
10. Well, I had the new Distributor in hand so, I went ahead to replace it anyway.
11. HERE IS THE RUB: Noting that you should always test-drive your vehicle, I did so, and almost the same type of issue raised its UGLY HEAD, meaning the momentary LOSS of ENGINE POWER along with the CHECK ENGINE Light coming ON.
12. Once again, I left the car at home and when I came back my family friend who is a retired mechanic came to the house and the freaking car NO LONGER exhibited any symptoms whatsoever and instead ran like new!!!:surprise::laugh: While he was at my house, I performed the Diagnostic Connector procedure by shorting out TE1 and E1 terminals together and then, placing the ignition switch to ON without starting the ENGINE and both CHECK ENGINE and Automatic Transmission O/D lights continually flashed noting NO ERROR CODES!!!!:surprise:

I DO KNOW NOW!
Yes, I have received Private Messages telling me that I need to replace my Camry's valve cover gasket and tube seals again since this person suspects that I didn't replace the Tube Seals when I replaced the Valve Cover Gasket, Plugs and PVC about two (2) years ago (11-27-2012): (He was correct!)

http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/1...-you-do-your-camry-today-251.html#post4015682

Its no wonder after 49,000+ miles later the 3 plugs were covered with Oil.
=====================================================

SUMMARY:
My Camry is running normally and without any LOSS of ENGINE POWER and worse NO ERROR CODES registered. I certainly DID NOT disconnect the Battery during all of the above work and perhaps I should have but, I did not.

My BIG mystery here is WHY???

Does anyone out there can tell me with certainty why after Replacing a brand NEW distributor and Spark Plugs did the Engine momentarily lose Power (Not as bad as before)? Could the Main Computer be at fault doing its adjusting to the new Distributor?

Thank you and so sorry for the VERY LONG WINDED Post!

Here are some pictures of my dealings with my 465,000+ Camry XLE from 1992! (Sorry no pictures of my work with Distributor)











 

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Almost 1/2 Million Miles!
92 Toyota Camry XLE
Joined
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1,791 Posts
Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
New Distributor Pictures!

Guys,

I found these pictures of my Camry's "NEW" & "New & Old" Distributor pictures and receipt of how much etc.....>:D





 

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Almost 1/2 Million Miles!
92 Toyota Camry XLE
Joined
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1,791 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Okay, the Engine has NOT acted up anymore.

I have been getting lower gasoline mileage and wondering if I should change it out anyway just for good measure?

I read in the Toyota Nation threads that the O2 is notorious to cause bad gasoline mileage and even affect Engine timing?

I paid $64 for this O2 exact fit BOSCH with the factory connector! Please advise.
 

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Almost 1/2 Million Miles!
92 Toyota Camry XLE
Joined
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1,791 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Guys,

Just got this reply from a Toyota Mechanic!


Toyota Mechanic

Regarding the oxygen sensor it is true that will affect your fuel mileage but typically it won't be an issue unless it sets a code. The only way to find out for sure is to test the voltage output if you go to the OX1 terminal in the diagnostic check connector where you're putting the wires into check for codes and monitor that voltage the voltage should swing from .1 to .9 at least 10 times in a minute while holding the engine RPM at 2K RPM with a hot engine. If you had an oscilloscope it would form a nice sinewave. If it seems to be fixed at .5 V or is barely getting to .3 V and then back up to .6 volts the oxygen sensor is sluggish and will need to be replaced. I am not a fan of Bosch oxygen sensors. Direct fit DENSO sensors are better fit and better sensors for this car.

Regarding the ignition coil on that "new" Distributor, I would check the ignition coil anyway. With the connector disconnected to the coil you should have about .4 to .5 ohms of resistance across the negative and positive post. Then from the main terminal or higher voltage output terminal of the ignition coil to either one of the side terminals the B+ terminal or negative terminal you should have between 10.2K to 14.3K ohms of resistance.
 

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I paid $64 for this O2 exact fit BOSCH with the factory connector! Please advise.
From what I have read and seen (Scotty Kilmer youtube) the Bosch O2 sensors and Toyotas don't mix well.

I don't have reliable data either ways its just what I have read online but I do trust Scotty Kilmers opinion. He says Denso only for Toyotas.
 

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The part about a marginally bad O2 sensor setting a code is sort of true for OBD II Camrys. Even those aren't very sensitive. They have to get really bad before tripping a code IMHO.

OBD I?... Forget about it. It's EXTREMELY slow to trip a code. I wouldn't be surprised if it was unable to detect an unplugged sensor.

I once swapped a known bad EGR modulator from my Avalon to my Camry (same p/n req'd for both). The Avalon had thrown an EGR code, and the modulator tested bad. The Camry ran with the bad modulator for a week or two without setting an EGR code.
 

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Almost 1/2 Million Miles!
92 Toyota Camry XLE
Joined
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1,791 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
97Trophy and BMR,

Thanks so much for your replies! ;)

I just got home and going to check for voltage output from the OX1 terminal in the diagnostic check connector.

Will report back soon!
 

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Almost 1/2 Million Miles!
92 Toyota Camry XLE
Joined
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1,791 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
From what I have read and seen (Scotty Kilmer youtube) the Bosch O2 sensors and Toyotas don't mix well.

I don't have reliable data either ways its just what I have read online but I do trust Scotty Kilmers opinion. He says Denso only for Toyotas.

Yes indeed!

http://youtu.be/1ZBjHy76Pwc
 

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Almost 1/2 Million Miles!
92 Toyota Camry XLE
Joined
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1,791 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Oxygen Sensor Replacement!

Guys,

I followed the procedure from two Books I have Chilton's and Haynes and both corresponded the same in the manner to test the Oxygen Sensor and the results was very easy as Voltage didn't change at all and during the run up at 2,500 RPMs and having the diagnostic terminals TE1 & E1 shorted along with Voltage readings at VF1 & E1.

I believe that I have been driving my poor Camry for over 65,000 miles with a completely DEAD Oxygen Sensor but, I can't complain since it is the Original Oxygen Sensor from Factory.

As far as BRAND, I called around and the DENSO "is" special order and takes over 5 days to get here, no matter where you go (Auto Zone, O'Rielly's etc...). I did get with a telephone discussion with Larry from O'Reilly's Auto Parts (30+ years parts experience) and I have lots of respect to his knowledge of parts and their origin. Larry told me that BOSCH makes Oxygen Sensor parts for DENSO and I should be okay with the BOSCH that I had purchased about two days ago. Please note that I bought this BOSCH O2 from AUTO ZONE and not O'Reilly's!

Perhaps Scotty Kilmer is correct that one should stick to factory OEM parts but, I look at it this way........I had been driving this Camry for over 65,000 miles without a working Oxygen Sensor so, what the heck, in goes the BOSCH brand.:wink:

I have videos to show you that I have test driven my Camry with 465,000 Miles and it gets up and GO much quicker and the sluggishness has completely gone at acceleration from standing stop.:surprise:

For now, here are some pictures!








 

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Almost 1/2 Million Miles!
92 Toyota Camry XLE
Joined
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1,791 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Post Test Drive after O2 Sensor Replacement!

Guys,

Here is the Video showing you all the quick response to throttle and no hesitation from my 1992 Camry XLE 2.2 Liter (4 Cylinder) with Automatic.

Nice a smooth shifting and no engine noise along with fast get up and GO!:smile:

https://vimeo.com/112968011
 

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you're lucky you don't have to pass emissions testing in fl. like we do in ca. sounds like you fixed it. good job.
tony
 

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Almost 1/2 Million Miles!
92 Toyota Camry XLE
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1,791 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
you're lucky you don't have to pass emissions testing in fl. like we do in ca. sounds like you fixed it. good job.
tony
Thanks Tony!

My three cousins live in San Francisco and Oakland so, I could imagine!:surprise:

Yes, we are lucky here and we have enjoyed no inspections since the late 1980's so, it has been great for those that like to customize their cars and don't really have to pay attention to every sensor and valve.:laugh:

I am pretty pleased in the extra performance and most importantly better Gasoline Mileage!!:wink:

Have a great Thanksgiving Day!:laugh:
 

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Thanks Tony!

My three cousins live in San Francisco and Oakland so, I could imagine!:surprise:

Yes, we are lucky here and we have enjoyed no inspections since the late 1980's so, it has been great for those that like to customize their cars and don't really have to pay attention to every sensor and valve.:laugh:

I am pretty pleased in the extra performance and most importantly better Gasoline Mileage!!:wink:

Have a great Thanksgiving Day!:laugh:
Great to see you've got it working!

A couple questions:
Any noticeable difference when you run a higher octane gas in it?
What's your mpg like?

Happy Thanksgiving! :smile:
 

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Almost 1/2 Million Miles!
92 Toyota Camry XLE
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1,791 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Great to see you've got it working!

A couple questions:
Any noticeable difference when you run a higher octane gas in it?
What's your mpg like?

Happy Thanksgiving! :smile:
Higher Octane certainly helps with Gas mileage and get UP and GO.

Actually, you do get higher mileage because the Fuel burns much better and the Engine has more power and therefore, no need to mash the accelerator down like with the lower Octane. With lower Octane (it has been my experience) that you need to mash down the accelerator "more" to get the same get UP and GO as with the higher Octane, assuming your Camry is well maintained.

Before the Oxygen Sensor replacement from three days ago, I have been getting 28 - 29 MPG Highway if you drive like a granny. 25 - 27 MPH combined but, now that I have discovered that I have been running my Camry with a BAD Oxygen Sensor I am hopeful to go back and get 30 - 31 MPG Highway and nothing less than 27 MPG combined.:laugh:
 

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So the tube seals and electricals made a difference in the running, but the O2 sensor made the biggest difference in starting, right? I think I'll be replacing my rear bank's o2 sensor....already did the front one a few months ago when a CEL came on for it. I guess the old one is starting to go bad.
 

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Almost 1/2 Million Miles!
92 Toyota Camry XLE
Joined
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1,791 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Hey, that wasn't a cold-start! Can you do a video when you start it up when it's cold? Pretty please...

That was indeed a COLD start.

The Video was started a few seconds after the Engine started.

Later!:nerd:
 
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