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G

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was at the San Jose Auto Show yesterday, and one thing I looked at in
all the cars was the cup holder designs, and how they accompany
different size cups.

I had along a Contigo Extreme insulated mug for testing
("http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/ref=bxgy_cc_img_b_13160581/602-0242754-9761410?asin=B000FE9OP8"),
since any car I buy will have to be able to accompany a mug with this
diameter base. My current 4Runner will work with it well, while my
wife's older Camry (1996) has cup holders that are too small.

Almost all new cars have larger cup holders than previous generations,
there were only a few vehicles with tiny cup holders.

Different designs

Single size: You have to buy a cup that will fit properly and snugly.
This may actually be the best design, least likely to ever break, though
the single size cup holders are too large for holding a soda can or a
smaller bottle of water securely. You could insert a foam insulator for
use with smaller diameter containers.

Laddered: a small circle at the bottom, so the cup stops when it's at
the smallest circle that the base will fit in. This is fairly unstable
since you don't get much side support at any of the levels, though you
could add some foam to make it more secure.

Rubber flaps: A large diameter cup holder with some flimsy rubber flaps
that are intended to hold the smaller cups in place. These don't work
well as the flaps are too flimsy to do much of anything. Once they fall
off, you could add some foam.

Swing arm: This type was in a Dodge RAM truck. It was big diameter cup
holder with a strong plastic arm that swings over to match the cup
diameter. Did not appear flimsy. A simple, straight-forward design, but
you need to manually adjust the size. I liked this truck, which was a
crew cab that seated six. When was the last time you saw a vehicle that
seated three people in the front seat?

Plastic flip: This was a spring loaded plastic flap that flips up or
down to fit different cup diameters. It was very flimsy, and one of the
two was already broken on the 2007 Camry that was on the show floor. The
Camry may be a great car, but the engineers clearly missed the class on
cup-holder design.

Three spring loaded fingers: This was a good adjustable type. Three
solid plastic fingers with springs behind them push against the base of
the cup. These held the cup pretty securely, and appeared as if they
wouldn't break easily. No manual adjustment was necessary. It took a
little bit of a push to seat the cup into the cup holder, and a good
pull to remove it. This type requires a larger console, since the spring
-loaded fingers need to retract into the console. Only issue might be
that eventually the springs will fatigue.

Three foam fingers: These fingers were vinyl covered foam. The cup
compresses these fingers as you slide it in. They worked fine, but they
won't last, the vinyl will peel off after moderate use and exposure to
the elements. The advantage to the manufacturer is that these fingers
don't have to retract so a smaller console can be used.

I didn't see any of the super-flimsy slide-out or pop-up cup-holders
that tend to break very quickly. The only broken cup-holder I saw was in
the 2007 Camry.

Research shows that cup-holder design, while not a primary selection
factor in a vehicle, often is a secondary and deciding factor in
narrowing down the final choice of vehicle.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
On GM's new Volt, a plug in electric car due in 10 years, small circular
motors regulate a camera aperture type design to custom fit the hole for
virtually any size cup. Tiny sensors feel the pressure as you pull on the
cup and instantly open the aperture which cannot be damaged since it is
fully expanded and out of the way when no cup is in place.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
"Art" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On GM's new Volt, a plug in electric car due in 10 years, small circular
> motors regulate a camera aperture type design to custom fit the hole for
> virtually any size cup. Tiny sensors feel the pressure as you pull on the
> cup and instantly open the aperture which cannot be damaged since it is
> fully expanded and out of the way when no cup is in place.
>


Except you haven't quite got a grip on the cup, so it falls straight through
the hole soaking you with coffee.
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
In article <[email protected]>,
"Art" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On GM's new Volt, a plug in electric car due in 10 years, small circular
> motors regulate a camera aperture type design to custom fit the hole for
> virtually any size cup. Tiny sensors feel the pressure as you pull on the
> cup and instantly open the aperture which cannot be damaged since it is
> fully expanded and out of the way when no cup is in place.


Verrrrrry innovative.

Multi-posting is frowned upon and I try to catch myself when I reply.
--
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ray O wrote:

> Car buyers' deciding factors must have changed drastically with the advent
> of the cup holder. Up until now, the top selection factors (in no
> particular order) have been brand, safety, fuel economy, reliability, style,
> performance, and price.


Judging from my neighborhood, the first criteria is to eliminate every
make other than Honda, Toyota, Acura, and Lexus, and then choose between
those models based on style, performance, and price. The brands with
poor long term dependability aren't even in the equation. You see the
odd Volvo, Subaru, BMW, or Mercedes, but these are rare. Sometimes the
Koreans, Taiwanese, and Chinese that won't buy Japanese cars, and end up
with a U.S. brand, or a Hyundai. In my area, people tend to keep their
cars for a long time, there are a tremendous number of third generation
Camrys (1992-96), and fifth (1994-97) generation Accords.

It's once you narrow things down, say between an Accord and a Camry, an
Odyssey or a Sienna, a Civic and a Corolla, a Pilot and a Highlander,
etc., that the other factors come into play.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Art wrote:
> On GM's new Volt, a plug in electric car due in 10 years, small circular
> motors regulate a camera aperture type design to custom fit the hole for
> virtually any size cup. Tiny sensors feel the pressure as you pull on the
> cup and instantly open the aperture which cannot be damaged since it is
> fully expanded and out of the way when no cup is in place.


Yes, the new digital cup-holders are coming. I think the Volt will have
heated cup holders as well.

OT, I saw the Saturn Aura at the car show. Someone had mentioned that
you have to remove the bumper to change the headlight bulbs, and it
appears to be true, as you cannot reach the bulbs from the top. Scratch
the Aura from my list.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:40:58 GMT, "Art" <[email protected]> wrote:

>On GM's new Volt, a plug in electric car due in 10 years, small circular
>motors regulate a camera aperture type design to custom fit the hole for
>virtually any size cup. Tiny sensors feel the pressure as you pull on the
>cup and instantly open the aperture which cannot be damaged since it is
>fully expanded and out of the way when no cup is in place.

sensors like the ones used as the send unit for oil pressure guages?
>
>
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
SMS wrote:
> I was at the San Jose Auto Show yesterday, and one thing I looked at in
> all the cars was the cup holder designs, and how they accompany
> different size cups.
>
> I had along a Contigo Extreme insulated mug for testing
> ("http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/ref=bxgy_cc_img_b_13160581/602-0242754-9761410?asin=B000FE9OP8"),
> since any car I buy will have to be able to accompany a mug with this
> diameter base.


Are you KIDDING? You would actually let a stinkin' CUP determine what
car you buy?

Sheesh. No wonder modern cars are full of plastic crap if that's really
a driving force in the marketplace.
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
SMS wrote:
> I was at the San Jose Auto Show yesterday, and one thing I looked at in
> all the cars was the cup holder designs, and how they accompany
> different size cups.
> Cup holder review snipped<
>
> Research shows that cup-holder design, while not a primary selection
> factor in a vehicle, often is a secondary and deciding factor in
> narrowing down the final choice of vehicle.


Wouldn't it be better to buy a cup to fit your new car?
Cup holder technology (I say that with tongue in cheek) has actually progressed over
the years. I recall when the "cup holders" were two dimples on the inside of the glove
box lid. I can usually find a suitable cup for just about any cup holder design today.
I'd call that progress.

Not being a true cup holder afficianado, the oldest car I can recall with true cup
holders is my 84 Lincoln Mark VII. These were a truly brilliant design that was
carried on through 1992 in that model.
The dual cup holder panel pulled forward out of the center console armrest. This put
your drink(s) squarely over top of the window and mirror switches and ashtray. The
pull out panel was equipped with (x2) a "ring" that would pivot the cup right and left
and a "bale" hinged at 90 degrees on the ring from the ring pivots. Sort of a self
leveling gyroscopic design. Anything but the smallest cup or can put into them was
guaranteed to tip to one side and douse the switches below with cola or drown the
ashtray with java. The ring and bale were also guaranteed to snap off when pushing it
back into the console at some point. This failure actually improved the design
somewhat. With the useless appendages gone you can set a 24oz styro cup of Starbucks
finest through the remaining hole and have it sit firmly on the console, atop the
mirror switch or ashtray lid, with no chance of tipping. Perfect to hold the coffee
for your morning commute while applying makeup or planning your day on your Palm while
driving in rush hour traffic.
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Tom Adkins wrote:
> SMS wrote:
>> I was at the San Jose Auto Show yesterday, and one thing I looked at
>> in all the cars was the cup holder designs, and how they accompany
>> different size cups.
>> Cup holder review snipped<
>>
>> Research shows that cup-holder design, while not a primary selection
>> factor in a vehicle, often is a secondary and deciding factor in
>> narrowing down the final choice of vehicle.

>
> Wouldn't it be better to buy a cup to fit your new car?
> Cup holder technology (I say that with tongue in cheek) has actually
> progressed over the years. I recall when the "cup holders" were two
> dimples on the inside of the glove box lid. I can usually find a
> suitable cup for just about any cup holder design today. I'd call that
> progress.
>
> Not being a true cup holder afficianado, the oldest car I can recall
> with true cup holders is my 84 Lincoln Mark VII. These were a truly
> brilliant design that was carried on through 1992 in that model.
> The dual cup holder panel pulled forward out of the center console
> armrest. This put your drink(s) squarely over top of the window and
> mirror switches and ashtray. The pull out panel was equipped with (x2) a
> "ring" that would pivot the cup right and left and a "bale" hinged at 90
> degrees on the ring from the ring pivots. Sort of a self leveling
> gyroscopic design. Anything but the smallest cup or can put into them
> was guaranteed to tip to one side and douse the switches below with cola
> or drown the ashtray with java. The ring and bale were also guaranteed
> to snap off when pushing it back into the console at some point. This
> failure actually improved the design somewhat. With the useless
> appendages gone you can set a 24oz styro cup of Starbucks finest through
> the remaining hole and have it sit firmly on the console, atop the
> mirror switch or ashtray lid, with no chance of tipping. Perfect to hold
> the coffee for your morning commute while applying makeup or planning
> your day on your Palm while driving in rush hour traffic.


Hi...

Can't help thinking it would be infinitely easier for the manufacturer
to provide a perfect fit properly designed thermal cup to fit their
cup holder :)

And to entice them to consider it, they could even make it a really
nice one, perhaps stainless steel, and put their logo on it.

Each time one of us went into a restaurant to have it re-filled,
we'd be doing a bit of advertising for them :)

Take care.

Ken
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Tom Adkins wrote:

> Wouldn't it be better to buy a cup to fit your new car?


Perhaps, but try finding a double-wall, stainless steel, vacuum
insulated, cup that fits the older soda-can size cup holders.

Also, sometimes you want to hold a paper cup of coffee, a bottle of
water which may not always be the same diameter, or a can of something.

While the original post I made was intended to be partially humorous,
the engineering design of the cup holder may be an indication of how
seriously the manufacturer takes engineering in other areas as well.
 
G

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I knew we were focussing on the wrong criteria for new cars.... to hell with
crash survivability.... screw tailpipe and evaporative emissions...

I thought a 4WD pick up with the power to tow my holiday trailer was what I
needed.... and all I needed to do was take my "go cup" car shopping with me.

If that little 4 cylinder econobox can't tow my trailer, I guess I could
always buy a truck and give up drinking coffee....

Isn't it odd, those incidentals that we agonize over... I'd love to see the
forest but all these damned trees are in the way....
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
SMS wrote:
> Tom Adkins wrote:
>
>> Wouldn't it be better to buy a cup to fit your new car?

>
> Perhaps, but try finding a double-wall, stainless steel, vacuum
> insulated, cup that fits the older soda-can size cup holders.

You're not supposed to find a cup that fits "older" cup holders. Yer s'posta buy a
new vehicle.
>
> Also, sometimes you want to hold a paper cup of coffee, a bottle of
> water which may not always be the same diameter, or a can of something.

Yes, I agree with what you are saying, but to design a cup holder that would fit
every circumstance??

>
> While the original post I made was intended to be partially humorous,
> the engineering design of the cup holder may be an indication of how
> seriously the manufacturer takes engineering in other areas as well.

No. It's just prorities. Do you want an engine that lasts 300K, or a cup holder that
won't spill your drink no matter what you put in it? Priority lines have to be drawn
somewhere or you couldn't afford the car.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
SMS wrote:
> I was at the San Jose Auto Show yesterday, and one thing I looked at in
> all the cars was the cup holder designs, and how they accompany
> different size cups.
>
> I had along a Contigo Extreme insulated mug for testing
> ("http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/ref=bxgy_cc_img_b_13160581/602-0242754-9761410?asin=B000FE9OP8"),
> since any car I buy will have to be able to accompany a mug with this
> diameter base. My current 4Runner will work with it well, while my
> wife's older Camry (1996) has cup holders that are too small.
>
> Almost all new cars have larger cup holders than previous generations,
> there were only a few vehicles with tiny cup holders.
>
> Different designs
>
> Single size: You have to buy a cup that will fit properly and snugly.
> This may actually be the best design, least likely to ever break, though
> the single size cup holders are too large for holding a soda can or a
> smaller bottle of water securely. You could insert a foam insulator for
> use with smaller diameter containers.
>
> Laddered: a small circle at the bottom, so the cup stops when it's at
> the smallest circle that the base will fit in. This is fairly unstable
> since you don't get much side support at any of the levels, though you
> could add some foam to make it more secure.
>
> Rubber flaps: A large diameter cup holder with some flimsy rubber flaps
> that are intended to hold the smaller cups in place. These don't work
> well as the flaps are too flimsy to do much of anything. Once they fall
> off, you could add some foam.
>
> Swing arm: This type was in a Dodge RAM truck. It was big diameter cup
> holder with a strong plastic arm that swings over to match the cup
> diameter. Did not appear flimsy. A simple, straight-forward design, but
> you need to manually adjust the size. I liked this truck, which was a
> crew cab that seated six. When was the last time you saw a vehicle that
> seated three people in the front seat?
>
> Plastic flip: This was a spring loaded plastic flap that flips up or
> down to fit different cup diameters. It was very flimsy, and one of the
> two was already broken on the 2007 Camry that was on the show floor. The
> Camry may be a great car, but the engineers clearly missed the class on
> cup-holder design.
>
> Three spring loaded fingers: This was a good adjustable type. Three
> solid plastic fingers with springs behind them push against the base of
> the cup. These held the cup pretty securely, and appeared as if they
> wouldn't break easily. No manual adjustment was necessary. It took a
> little bit of a push to seat the cup into the cup holder, and a good
> pull to remove it. This type requires a larger console, since the spring
> -loaded fingers need to retract into the console. Only issue might be
> that eventually the springs will fatigue.
>
> Three foam fingers: These fingers were vinyl covered foam. The cup
> compresses these fingers as you slide it in. They worked fine, but they
> won't last, the vinyl will peel off after moderate use and exposure to
> the elements. The advantage to the manufacturer is that these fingers
> don't have to retract so a smaller console can be used.
>
> I didn't see any of the super-flimsy slide-out or pop-up cup-holders
> that tend to break very quickly. The only broken cup-holder I saw was in
> the 2007 Camry.
>
> Research shows that cup-holder design, while not a primary selection
> factor in a vehicle, often is a secondary and deciding factor in
> narrowing down the final choice of vehicle.

The cup holders in my car and pickup are used to hold cat food for the
dogs. I'm serious, the same cat food in the house that they don't
touch, they eat out of the cup holders like they were starving. They
are small dogs and love to ride.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
In article <[email protected]>, SMS
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I was at the San Jose Auto Show yesterday, and one thing I looked at in
> all the cars was the cup holder designs, and how they accompany
> different size cups.


Wow, 2 or 3 more reports like this and you'll be eligble for a PhD from
any number of online life-experience "colleges". :)

I don't mean to mock. I found your report interesting and I thank you
for offering it.

In my Prius's center console there's one molded cupholder that would
leak any spill and one fold-out cupholder that would contain any spill.
I think all should be the containment variety.

The Prius also has a water-bottle recess molded into each front door
pocket. That's handy, but only for the bottle. It would be a bad place
for a cup because of the awkward reach.

For the back seat occupants there's a sturdy fold-down arm that is a
no-spill unadjustable holder for two cylindrical somethings. As my wife
and I never have backseat occupants on long trips, I've installed a
tall plastic tumbler as a substitute for the trash holder that for us
would have been a better choice as standard equipment.

> Three spring loaded fingers: This was a good adjustable type. Three
> solid plastic fingers with springs behind them push against the base of
> the cup. These held the cup pretty securely, and appeared as if they
> wouldn't break easily. No manual adjustment was necessary. It took a
> little bit of a push to seat the cup into the cup holder, and a good
> pull to remove it.


That scares me. I don't want to push down or tug up on a full cup of
coffee. As the up-tugging is likely to rely on the rim of the lid,
there'd be a good chance of its detaching with an attendant loss of
control of the cup. All other things being equal, I'd bypass that
vehicle. Of course, few other things are equal.

A 5-passenger Accord coupe I looked at had seven built-in cupholders. I
figure for most trips that's coffee for the driver and a six-pack for
the passenger. :)

--
Paul of Pemaquid Point
"Bounding Maine"
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Art wrote:

> On GM's new Volt, a plug in electric car due in 10 years, small circular
> motors regulate a camera aperture type design to custom fit the hole for
> virtually any size cup. Tiny sensors feel the pressure as you pull on the
> cup and instantly open the aperture which cannot be damaged since it is
> fully expanded and out of the way when no cup is in place.


Oh geez! I hate to think what fraternities will do with that contraption!!

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Heh heh! That would be something to be a new engineer at a carmaker,
and you're assigned to do nothing but desing the cupholder (I always
want to pronounce that "cufolder" - kind of like "Beethoven").

Anyway - reminds me of a boss I had at an aerospace company - he and
another engineer spent the early part of their careers designing the
fecal bags for one of the space programs (don't remember which one). It
gave them a really bad attitude, and at the company Christmas party that
year, the two of them each took a fecal bag and made a flower out of it
and wore them as boutonnieres. He said they got some strange looks at
the party - people did not know what they were or what to make of their
fashion accessory.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
SMS wrote:

> Tom Adkins wrote:
>
>> Wouldn't it be better to buy a cup to fit your new car?

>


It would be BEST to finish your coffee before getting in the car to
drive it, and concentrate on DRIVING when you're behind the wheel. :p
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
In article <[email protected]>,
Steve <[email protected]> wrote:
>SMS wrote:
>
>> Tom Adkins wrote:
>>
>>> Wouldn't it be better to buy a cup to fit your new car?

>>

>
>It would be BEST to finish your coffee before getting in the car to
>drive it, and concentrate on DRIVING when you're behind the wheel. :p
>


Explain the ashtray then :)


--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I have a 2007 Camry XLE.

How do you break the cupholder?

Just wondering?




"SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I was at the San Jose Auto Show yesterday, and one thing I looked at in all
>the cars was the cup holder designs, and how they accompany different size
>cups.
>
> I had along a Contigo Extreme insulated mug for testing
> ("http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/ref=bxgy_cc_img_b_13160581/602-0242754-9761410?asin=B000FE9OP8"),
> since any car I buy will have to be able to accompany a mug with this
> diameter base. My current 4Runner will work with it well, while my wife's
> older Camry (1996) has cup holders that are too small.
>
> Almost all new cars have larger cup holders than previous generations,
> there were only a few vehicles with tiny cup holders.
>
> Different designs
>
> Single size: You have to buy a cup that will fit properly and snugly. This
> may actually be the best design, least likely to ever break, though the
> single size cup holders are too large for holding a soda can or a smaller
> bottle of water securely. You could insert a foam insulator for use with
> smaller diameter containers.
>
> Laddered: a small circle at the bottom, so the cup stops when it's at the
> smallest circle that the base will fit in. This is fairly unstable since
> you don't get much side support at any of the levels, though you could add
> some foam to make it more secure.
>
> Rubber flaps: A large diameter cup holder with some flimsy rubber flaps
> that are intended to hold the smaller cups in place. These don't work well
> as the flaps are too flimsy to do much of anything. Once they fall off,
> you could add some foam.
>
> Swing arm: This type was in a Dodge RAM truck. It was big diameter cup
> holder with a strong plastic arm that swings over to match the cup
> diameter. Did not appear flimsy. A simple, straight-forward design, but
> you need to manually adjust the size. I liked this truck, which was a crew
> cab that seated six. When was the last time you saw a vehicle that seated
> three people in the front seat?
>
> Plastic flip: This was a spring loaded plastic flap that flips up or down
> to fit different cup diameters. It was very flimsy, and one of the two was
> already broken on the 2007 Camry that was on the show floor. The Camry may
> be a great car, but the engineers clearly missed the class on cup-holder
> design.
>
> Three spring loaded fingers: This was a good adjustable type. Three solid
> plastic fingers with springs behind them push against the base of the cup.
> These held the cup pretty securely, and appeared as if they wouldn't break
> easily. No manual adjustment was necessary. It took a little bit of a push
> to seat the cup into the cup holder, and a good pull to remove it. This
> type requires a larger console, since the spring -loaded fingers need to
> retract into the console. Only issue might be that eventually the springs
> will fatigue.
>
> Three foam fingers: These fingers were vinyl covered foam. The cup
> compresses these fingers as you slide it in. They worked fine, but they
> won't last, the vinyl will peel off after moderate use and exposure to the
> elements. The advantage to the manufacturer is that these fingers don't
> have to retract so a smaller console can be used.
>
> I didn't see any of the super-flimsy slide-out or pop-up cup-holders that
> tend to break very quickly. The only broken cup-holder I saw was in the
> 2007 Camry.
>
> Research shows that cup-holder design, while not a primary selection
> factor in a vehicle, often is a secondary and deciding factor in narrowing
> down the final choice of vehicle.
 
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