The 2012 Camry Hybrid has something Toyota calls an "electronic CVT" which used electric motors connected to a planetary gear set and is mechanically simple and very reliable - it's completely different than the "mechanical" CVT used in non-hybrids that employs a metallic belt running between variable diameter pulleys, that have developed a reputation for failing sooner than regular automatic transmissions. I expect they're improving but wonder how many make it to 200,000mi., though this might be a non-issue for many. When they do fail they do so totally costing ~ $7000 to replace. They are very efficient, making for better gas mileage than conventional AT's.
2022 or 2023 Toyota Corolla
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Interesting! Thx for the info!
I might be too sensitive about this - my concerns formed some years ago when CVTs were newer and several friends who owned them experienced total failures, they weren't pleased. Things can get better though, in their early days automatic transmissions also were more failure prone compared to MTs, but now often last the life of the car. Consumer Reports might be worth checking.
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1) as a Tech, I would service the trans every 30K
2) I would test drive other cars
3)I have a 22 SE, big mistake, horrible Trans, its falling apart, broken trim, parts fall off, engine vibration starts after about 3000 miles, AC is very poor in hot climates, on a freeway its very loud, seats ok in town, not good for long distance, I am 6.1.
4) see question 3
5) yes I do, Toyota them self's are horrible to deal with, the dealerships are as bad, and I have used two different ones, after a 4 year evaluation of Toyota and KIA/Hyundai, we as a police Department are dumping all Toyotas in favor of KIA/Hyundai for dealer service and reliabilty, unfortunately they don't have the Kia I want yet, so i will do one more year on this lease, but that's me, others love them.
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What happened with your recommendation #2 and your 22SE? Is that retrospective or have you actually test driven yours before purchasing/leasing it?
Not every car is for everyone. Hopefully your next one will satisfy your wants...
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188 Posts
If your car is "falling apart" after 3000 miles, regardless of make and model, either you have a lemon or you're remarkably terrible at driving.
#1: Why? Not needed
#3: A bit of an exaggeration don't you think. I'm in Phoenix and A/C is beyond cold and keeps up in 110+ degrees. If it's "really" that bad...lemon law it
#5: Aren't ALL dealerships horrible to deal with (that's not a question). Even my BMW dealership is horrible to deal with...
My Japan-built 2020 Corolla SE Sedan 6-MT developed a handful of problems & issues some time after purchase & I was happy to trade it off after only 2 years & 9500 miles. Toyota just doesn't build them like they used to IMO & it seems that materials/design corner-cutting is a bigger thing than ever now to keep certain price points & maximize profit. When I was checking out a 2022 Corolla Cross XLE AWD (top trim) in-person in early 2022 as a possible replacement, it seemed quite bit more cut-rate than its price-point would suggest it should be (any hidden, yet-unknown problems notwithstanding). Honda has gone the same route I have noticed over the last 15 years or so (IMO). But, as with everything, experiences vary from one person to the next I'm sure, & there does seem to be more of a "potluck element" than ever to automakers & their products today, simply due to all the added (& often unnecessary) complexities being shoved into their products - and they try to cut-corners in places they hope customer won't notice to help offset higher costs.
Hyundai & KIA have both had too many serious recalls & design issues over the last ten years to trust. Plus, I hear that trying to get them to honor their stated warranty can sometimes be a Herculean endeavor, often involving folks with law degrees.
I do agree that if you plan to keep a vehicle long-term, and/or want to maximize the transmission lifespan, that changing the transmission fluid every 3 years or 36K miles from the get-go is a smart move. Most people don't bother though, because they either believe the purposely-vague "lifetime fluid" rhetoric, or won't be keeping the vehicle long enough for earlier-wear transmission problems to be their problem - so they don't care if the thing blows out at 100-150K instead of 250K+ miles down the road.
Check the Consumer Reports /auto ratings, based on their own testing plus member feedback over a number of years. Included are rankings for safety and reliability of various systems in the cars.
My only Toyota experience is with a 2019 Prius (standard model). It's going strong at 68,000mi., gets it's original gas mileage (exceeds EPA estimates), is comfortable, etc., cruises happily at 80-85 on Interstates. It cost only a few thousand more than a Corolla and is returning that on fuel consumption. Many friends who have them (all generations) feel the same way. Also have a Subaru which is more versatile (Forest service roads in mountains, deeper snow) and is rugged for a car, but uses more fuel. Don't have much use for either dealerships, suggest using a good independent mechanic.
My only Toyota experience is with a 2019 Prius (standard model). It's going strong at 68,000mi., gets it's original gas mileage (exceeds EPA estimates), is comfortable, etc., cruises happily at 80-85 on Interstates. It cost only a few thousand more than a Corolla and is returning that on fuel consumption. Many friends who have them (all generations) feel the same way. Also have a Subaru which is more versatile (Forest service roads in mountains, deeper snow) and is rugged for a car, but uses more fuel. Don't have much use for either dealerships, suggest using a good independent mechanic.
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I think that's the key point most people seem incapable of understanding. Just because their product works, it means anyone else who bought the same product who is experiencing problems is doing something wrong. They fail to realize that the fault tolerance, planned obsolescence, designed to fail etc etc aspects of an increasingly AI run world results in a larger chance for any consumer, buying any product to have a bad experience. I could handle that, but the unfortunate fact that the people working for companies develop a culture of only valuing the next new transaction and no appreciation for loyalty or customer relationships, that just exacerbates the problem because now not only could you end up with a lemon, the place you purchased it from and the manufacturer don't care. No one takes responsibility for any issues and that's why my next car purchase will be my first purchase in decades where I have no idea which manufacturer I will buy from. None of these issues are anything new, but the level of occurance, the efficiency of minimum engineering and the lack of customer service only deteriorates for all, so my advice to people who come to me now, is buy whatever serves your needs at the best price and only count on it for as long as the warranty covers you... if you have a lawyer to force them to honor your warranty. If you can afford to, dump the car at the first sign of trouble and cut your losses.
The Corolla hybrid is essentially a Prius with a more conventional body. It will deliver the same performance, fuel economy and reliability as a Prius. That may change in 2023 with the next-generation Prius. It's much better looking than the 2022 Prius, and it's a hatchback which is a big plus compared to the Corolla. But still if someone wants a more "conventional" car, the Corolla Hybrid is an excellent choice.
The Corolla hybrid is a "budget-built Prius", given its $1K-$5K lower MSRP than even the bottom trim Prius. The 2023 LE Corolla hybrid is $5K less than the 2023 LE Prius. Even the top trim "loaded" XLE Corolla hybrid is still about $1K less than the bottom trim 2023 LE Prius. That means cheaper materials/build-quality, more corners cut, etc. to meet those lower price points. The 2023 Prius is the way to go IMO for a compact Toyota hybrid car, all things considered, for the best hybrid & vehicle satisfaction experience. Plus, now that the Prius is no longer a sad-looking eyesore with the 2023 model, it's a win-win.
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While I agree that the new prius looks nice and that the corolla would not be built the same way as it's higher priced sibling, I don't appreciate it's lack of headroom and compromised cargo space. The former actually being a deal killer for me. You also have to be careful in assuming that more money means better quality. In many ways this isn't the case. In fact, the best built car I ever owned was also the cheapest vehicle I've owned by far. 2007 Yaris which went nearly 15 years and I only replaced fluids, tires and filters. Even the wiperblades were original when I traded it in. It was also the easiest to maintain. I changed oil without even jacking it up.
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Agreed about the smaller engine on the corolla. I have a 2010 corolla and a 2003, both with the 1.8 l engine and the only thing i dislike is its painfully slow at acceleration from stops. So definitely make sure to get one with the 2.0 engine. Corollas are the best built and most reliable economy car ever made. Great choice.
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The corolla has a trunk rather than a hatch and at least used to be shorter than prius. That's cheaper due to less materials / process.
I believe the 1.8 corolla hybrid also has a tach, something the 1.8 prius lacks.
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Then why do the haters say the prius is tachy?
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2023 has the newer version of Toyota Safety Sense 3.0 versus the 2.0 in the 2022. Its worth looking into. The CVT transmission has a launch gear which you will probably notice right away if your legacy lacks it.
I like the new corolla because its comfortable, reliable, and safe. I dislike the piano black trim, and how they are no longer selling the 2023 corolla with a manual transmission (besides the GR)
I do not regret my purchase whatsoever and cannot recommend this car enough.
The reason you want one is the reason why, I believe, everyone gets a Corolla.
I hope you find a car that makes you and the new driver happy. Let me know if I can help with photos or anything of my Corolla
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Try Meguiar's PlastX on the piano black trim, cleans it right up with some elbow grease. It's actually clear plastic painted black underneath.
Speaking to your concern for the safety of a new driver, here are links to the Insurance institute For Highway Safety IIIHS) crash test ratings for the Corolla, Legacy, and Outback. Within their respective classes both the Corolla and Legacy rated highly (only the 2022 Corolla was listed, but its rating might carry over to 2023). One difference is the "new" side impact "pelvis" rating for the Corolla was only "Marginal" for the driver. The "new" side impact test results aren't reported for the Legacy, but the Outback's pelvis rating in this test was "Acceptable", so better (possibly because it's a heavier car).. Based on IIHS, it would be difficult to conclude that a Corolla is safer than a Legacy.
The NHTSA also conducts crash tests, although a bit differently, the article in the last link gives details on each agencies' tests. Note that the severity of the IIHS frontal collision is adjusted for weight class, so the Legacy, being heavier, is hit with more energy than the Corolla (and a Corolla probably would have fared worse if subjected to the Legacy's frontal test). Of course additional factors affect overall safety, including driver fit and visibility. Both cars appear to have the most important driver assist features, such as frontal collision avoidance.
NHTSA and IIHS Crash Test Safety Ratings Explained
Here's how vehicles like the Mazda 3, Nissan Rogue, and Ford Explorer earn top NHTSA and IIHS safety ratings.
www.caranddriver.com
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