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2021 HiHy Platinum AWD
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All my VW’s were more reliable, and far more comfortable and fun than all Toyota’s I had.
My current Tiguan can teach few lessons POS Sienna I have.


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Except my engine on my Tiguan died of LPSI, something VW didn't recognize when non-European manufacturers did... so the Superior German oil specs, even Mercedes did not recognize LPSI until they had to, so I no longer have to worry about "when will my engine blow up again?" Also nice getting around 40 mpg on my commute, in a larger SUV, which the Tiguan struggled to get 20 mpg in stop & go traffic. That 4-banger Hybrid is why I got a HiHy instead of another VW (Atlas) which the panoramic sunroof can open fully (if I wanted to).
 

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We've always complained about the fact that the HVAC controls killed 1/3 of the 12" screen. Agree, that was a dumb thing to do in 2020. Obviously it was a limitation of the old Entune software and they had to fill space on such a wide screen.
We've always complained about the fact that the HVAC controls killed 1/3 of the 12" screen. Agree, that was a dumb thing to do in 2020. Obviously it was a limitation of the old Entune software and they had to fill space on such a wide screen.
Any chance they will update existing 12" (really 8") screens to full screen? If this is just a software update, I hope they do.
 

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Any chance they will update existing 12" (really 8") screens to full screen? If this is just a software update, I hope they do.
YOu must of missed Post #11 on the first page

I personally don't mind the split screen. The hybrid energy monitor keeps things animated.
 

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Several things here:
1. This engine is more capable than V6.
309lb-ft compared to 266lb-ft. That is going to make better towing vehicle. I don’t want to know how 2GR-FKS tow’s, but I know it has problems carrying its own weight. Torque band is too narrow for vehicle like HL.
New engine will do everything between 1500-3000rpms for what V6 would need 4,500-6,000rpms.
It doesn't mean you'd need to spin the 3.5 to 4500 RPM to accelerate or pull as the 2.4t at 1500 RPM.
The difference in displacement and transmission gearing is important, especially considering the HL's weight.
I had a 2.0t Passat and while the paper specs were very impressive and it was pushing out the max. torque at 1800RPM the car had no pick up and very weak torque at that RPM.
The Subaru Ascent 2.4t specs look pretty impressive too, at least "paper specs", top torque at 2000 RPM, but it feels very heavy and lethargic at below 3k+ RPM.
 

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Most 4cyl turbo engines get actually better mpg then advertised, minus few.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it squeezes 1-2mpg although Toyota is usually very liberal about consumption. But even if numbers are dead on, low end torque will sell. Toyota has a problem because everyone is offering or plans to offer turbo 4. People go to try it and immediately realize that merging on hey is much faster in turbo and with less drama. Folks at high altitude where I live will appreciate turbo more than anyone.
And let’s not forget tunning cottage industry that will in no time offer 400lb-ft and some 320hp for some $900.


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Its a highly controversial topic as some test indicate that more then half of FI engines will rate as good as the EPA, while others have found the numbers to be lacking. That being said, if the FI engine was designed to out perform the NA with MPGs, we'd be seeing press releases that document them as such. instead we are seeing them talk about low end torque that is now available. That will sell for sure and I doubt any mfgs will offer V6s because the industry as a whole are going FI 4 for their ole NA v6.

They would be launching a prime edition, but without capacity this generation will solider on with just the 2 versions. The Grand Highlander might preview whats to come.
 

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2020 Highlander Plat, 2000 Camry LE
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All my VW’s were more reliable, and far more comfortable and fun than all Toyota’s I had.
My current Tiguan can teach few lessons POS Sienna I have.


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Agreed. We never had issues with any VW we own including the current 21 Jetta so far.


Several things here:
1. This engine is more capable than V6.
309lb-ft compared to 266lb-ft. That is going to make better towing vehicle. I don’t want to know how 2GR-FKS tow’s, but I know it has problems carrying its own weight. Torque band is too narrow for vehicle like HL.
New engine will do everything between 1500-3000rpms for what V6 would need 4,500-6,000rpms.
2. Oil IMO is big thing here and those who claim everything is in the book need to get familiar with CAFE. Only reason why Toyota uses 0W16 and 0W20 oils is CAFE. Take into consideration that in Europe in the same engines Toyota recommends ACEA C3 oils or so called heavy XW30 or light XW40 oils (minimum HTHS 3.5cp). I personally would not run anything lower than ILSAC GF6 5W30.
Now, we still don’t know how will this engine perform. Generally Asian manufacturers are well behind European in this. Both Honda and Subaru have huge issues with fuel dilution (something that plagued VW/Audi in, pay attention, 2003). When it comes to Subaru it borderline ridiculous so Subaru mechanics recommend OCI of 3K although factory is 6k. I have seen several UOA, and 3K seems right call. Whether this engine will have those issues, remains to be seen. But I would be on the lookout.
3. It won’t have Tundra/Sequoia issues as it is 4cyl not V6. There will be more space around it. I would hope BMW gave them a hand considering Toyota buys Diesel engines from them and then Supra, but then location of wastegate on V6 TT indicates it is 100% Toyota product. Still, even if this engine is plagued by same issues, it will be less of an headache.
4. On positive side, it will eliminate a bit of understeer as front will be lighter.

But folks, pay attention on fuel dilution. Smell oil dipstick. If it smells like fuel cap OCI at 5k even if Toyota engraved oil recommendations in gold.


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It'll never be as smooth as a v6 or quiet. I'm glad I got the v6.
 

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It'll never be as smooth as a v6 or quiet. I'm glad I got the v6.

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Smooth is my inline 6 BMW. V6 is just another cheap design.



Except my engine on my Tiguan died of LPSI, something VW didn't recognize when non-European manufacturers did... so the Superior German oil specs, even Mercedes did not recognize LPSI until they had to, so I no longer have to worry about "when will my engine blow up again?" Also nice getting around 40 mpg on my commute, in a larger SUV, which the Tiguan struggled to get 20 mpg in stop & go traffic. That 4-banger Hybrid is why I got a HiHy instead of another VW (Atlas) which the panoramic sunroof can open fully (if I wanted to).
LSPI.
It is an issue under certain circumstances:
1. Not approved oil.
2. Low octane fuel.

In VW it is sporadic event. In Asian turbos it is regular occurrence.

Mostly it is related to transmission set up.
 

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2020 Highlander Plat, 2000 Camry LE
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Smooth is my inline 6 BMW. V6 is just another cheap design.


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Yeah, too bad they don't make many inline 6s any more. But for what we get it's not bad at all. My VQ however in my 96 and 98 maxima we're the smoothest ones I owned.

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Yeah, too bad they don't make many inline 6s any more. But for what we get it's not bad at all. My VQ however in my 96 and 98 maxima we're the smoothest ones I owned.

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Actually, inline 6 are coming back. This is the part that is puzzling.
Toyota is already buying bunch of BMW engines in Europe. They could go for Tundra B58 that is already used in Supra and B48 4cyl for HL.
But, since they didn’t want to go that route, they could go their own inline 6 and derive I4 out of it. That is why Mercedes, FIAT, Jaguar etc. all went modular architecture. BMW basically derives all their I engines from modular technology. I6 is more expensive to make, harder to cool but it has irreplaceable advantages: smoothness, low end torque torque, easy access in bigger vehicles etc.
If they went I6 in Tundra, they wouldn’t have that ridiculous issue with wastegate.


It doesn't mean you'd need to spin the 3.5 to 4500 RPM to accelerate or pull as the 2.4t at 1500 RPM.
The difference in displacement and transmission gearing is important, especially considering the HL's weight.
I had a 2.0t Passat and while the paper specs were very impressive and it was pushing out the max. torque at 1800RPM the car had no pick up and very weak torque at that RPM.
The Subaru Ascent 2.4t specs look pretty impressive too, at least "paper specs", top torque at 2000 RPM, but it feels very heavy and lethargic at below 3k+ RPM.
Passat with 2.0 was paired to that Aisin junk. Part of the problem that Tiguan was getting bad mpg as well as in some cases LSPI.
I had VW CC with DSG transmission and that engine and it was a hoot to drive. And on hwy it would get easy 34-36mpg. In Europe they were pairing that engine in Passat and Tiguan to 7 speed DSG.
Subaru doesn’t only have an issue with fuel dilution, but that CVT will dial down performance. It is good Toyota decided to stick to 8 speed.
 

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It doesn't mean you'd need to spin the 3.5 to 4500 RPM to accelerate or pull as the 2.4t at 1500 RPM.
The difference in displacement and transmission gearing is important, especially considering the HL's weight.
I had a 2.0t Passat and while the paper specs were very impressive and it was pushing out the max. torque at 1800RPM the car had no pick up and very weak torque at that RPM.
The Subaru Ascent 2.4t specs look pretty impressive too, at least "paper specs", top torque at 2000 RPM, but it feels very heavy and lethargic at below 3k+ RPM.
Gearing is always an issue, even when the peak torque is as low as 1800 rpms.... but in real world driving, compared to a dyno plot, at that low of an rpm, when you want to step on it, you have turbo lag laughing into your face, as the turbo gets spooled up if you want to maintain that gear, and it's also part of the LPSI recipe, low engine speed with the demand of the high load. If the transmission is programmed to not want to downshift for fuel economy, this exacerbates the LPSI. Of course, in a manual transmission, you can decide to downshift to get up and go.
LSPI.
It is an issue under certain circumstances:
1. Not approved oil.
2. Low octane fuel.

In VW it is sporadic event. In Asian turbos it is regular occurrence.

Mostly it is related to transmission set up.

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You're actually wrong about LSPI. Combine that with the VW programming to resist downshifting for improved fuel economy, it creates a situation that worsens LSPI (low engine speed, high load demand)

1. Even with approved oil, it occurs. LSPI is not addressed in VW502.00 specification.
2. And it occurs with 91 AKI fuel.

Since as I said, VW and other German manufacturers ignored LSPI until they finally had to face the reality of it and finally recognized it. I know you love MB 229.51 spec oil. Guess what, it doesn't address LPSI, until MB realized its significance and started to work on a requirement for a LSPI test procedure and limits around 2016.

I know you also love BMW LL-01, guess what? LSPI is not addressed in the spec.

The "inferior" API SN-Plus does address LSPI in its performance testing, back in 2017.
 

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I don't understand the reasoning behind dropping the V6 for an I-4 turbo that gets the same fuel economy, and takes a hit on the HP. Seems like they've made the 2023 model a downgrade over previous years.
 

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Actually, inline 6 are coming back. This is the part that is puzzling.
Toyota is already buying bunch of BMW engines in Europe. They could go for Tundra B58 that is already used in Supra and B48 4cyl for HL.
But, since they didn’t want to go that route, they could go their own inline 6 and derive I4 out of it. That is why Mercedes, FIAT, Jaguar etc. all went modular architecture. BMW basically derives all their I engines from modular technology. I6 is more expensive to make, harder to cool but it has irreplaceable advantages: smoothness, low end torque torque, easy access in bigger vehicles etc.
If they went I6 in Tundra, they wouldn’t have that ridiculous issue with wastegate.


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I have the B46 (which is a B48 variant in US - because it's an SULEV) and it is super peppy in my car, also way smoother and more refined than the previous N20 4cyl BMW in our 2017 X3 that we recently sold. Looking back, I maybe wish I got the B58 car instead. But this 2.0L 4 cylinder is the most powerful BMW's I've owned and it also turns just about 30 mpg in the city and almost 40 on the highway. I hope I can keep it for a long time.

Maybe it won't be so bad in the Highlander, I would just worry that the long term reliability now on the new Highlander will take a hit. Odds are, CR will probably not rate it high for predicted reliability for 2023 and beyond.
 

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You should always do what the manufacture says, remember they built and tested their engines before the decided to build them into their vehicles. Oh and they wrote a booklet to help you understand what they "require"...that booklet is called the owners manual. :)

Yes! Wrote by the same company that wants you to make all maintenances with them and do a trade in each 5 yrs.

Oil changes when its color is coffee copper - brown, and transmission each 36k miles.


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Gearing is always an issue, even when the peak torque is as low as 1800 rpms.... but in real world driving, compared to a dyno plot, at that low of an rpm, when you want to step on it, you have turbo lag laughing into your face, as the turbo gets spooled up if you want to maintain that gear, and it's also part of the LPSI recipe, low engine speed with the demand of the high load. If the transmission is programmed to not want to downshift for fuel economy, this exacerbates the LPSI. Of course, in a manual transmission, you can decide to downshift to get up and go.

You're actually wrong about LSPI. Combine that with the VW programming to resist downshifting for improved fuel economy, it creates a situation that worsens LSPI (low engine speed, high load demand)

1. Even with approved oil, it occurs. LSPI is not addressed in VW502.00 specification.
2. And it occurs with 91 AKI fuel.

Since as I said, VW and other German manufacturers ignored LSPI until they finally had to face the reality of it and finally recognized it. I know you love MB 229.51 spec oil. Guess what, it doesn't address LPSI, until MB realized its significance and started to work on a requirement for a LSPI test procedure and limits around 2016.

I know you also love BMW LL-01, guess what? LSPI is not addressed in the spec.

The "inferior" API SN-Plus does address LSPI in its performance testing, back in 2017.
Actually LSPI is addressed by LL01 in 2018 for B generation engines (N20 does NOT have that issue) and Mercedes introduced MB229.52 when it faced with it in its 2.0T engine.
Yes, I said above, programming of that Aisin junk in VW is major issue that contributed to LSPI.
Also, my comment on oil was not on VW502.00 but generally people using wrong oils that contribute to it.

As for SP, test is done on Ford 2.3 Ecoboost, engine that doesn’t have LSPI issue. I would not bet on that.
But, if Toyota engine with this displacement has LSPI issues, then it is ultimate junk.

I have the B46 (which is a B48 variant in US - because it's an SULEV) and it is super peppy in my car, also way smoother and more refined than the previous N20 4cyl BMW in our 2017 X3 that we recently sold. Looking back, I maybe wish I got the B58 car instead. But this 2.0L 4 cylinder is the most powerful BMW's I've owned and it also turns just about 30 mpg in the city and almost 40 on the highway. I hope I can keep it for a long time.

Maybe it won't be so bad in the Highlander, I would just worry that the long term reliability now on the new Highlander will take a hit. Odds are, CR will probably not rate it high for predicted reliability for 2023 and beyond.
Turbo engine obviously has more parts attached, but 90% cars, taxis etc. in Europe are turbo. And not anymore diesels, mostly now are just small displacement gas turbo, LNG, or turbo hybrid. And yet, they rack up huge mileage.
 
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