[OwnerOfReality]

ive been looking at all the 4age/4agze that i can find and i cant seem to figure out which one would suit me the best... i want something i can drive daily, race in street X/autocross and not cost a major fortune...

currently i have a 1991 SR5 corolla automatic.... im looking at getting the engine and tranny (the harness, ecu ect.) for about $1500 and then paying someone about $500-$900 to install it for me (i have never worked on cars before... so i have no clue what im doing... i really want to learn though... here in the next year im going to go to college for automotive technology) if its easy enough to do i would love to do it... the wiring i have heard is a PITA but if all i have to do is follow a diagram and match colors for a couple weeks then i feel i would be ok...

basically what i want to know is... which can get the best performance for my needs and not completely break the bank?

 

[rezzle]

oh geez.

Here we go again.

Does anyone remember the days when the search button used to flash?

http://toyotanation.com/forum/search.php?searchid=79642


Edit ....
I vote Z but I'm biased. <G>
The 20V numbers are inflated as they are based on numbers in Japan ...
http://toyotanation.com/forum/t18041.html

In North America most of the silvertops put no more than 130 to the wheels and the 4agze's are close to the same. The difference then becomes the torque curve for each motor. The GZE does produce much more torque at the lower to mid rpm's

http://www.padandwheels.com/mr2/blacktopproject/dyno.html

Funny I couldn't find one baseline gze on the web. Well i'm buying a JDM GZE next week, and should have it installed in stock form in the spring. I'll get a dyno then lol.

Anyway when you look at the torque curve of the GE above you can see it is .. well flat and does not match the HP in terms of pure numbers. Also note that the posted curve above is for an engine running on high octane fuel. Put it on pump gas and the torque would be much much lower at the lower rpms. Why? The timing would have to be retarded, or extreme detonation would ensue followed by broken parts. A supercharged motor on the other hand has a torque curve that mirrors the HP curve and the pure torque numbers usually come closer to the HP numbers ... 130 hp at the wheels and 130ft.lb of torque ... available on 92 octane.

 

[freakinbox]

I went over this to myself. but I don't know... I am really starting to like my 4af. Hasn't done wrong to me yet

 

[toyotaspeed90]

I went over this to myself. but I don't know... I am really starting to like my 4af. Hasn't done wrong to me yet

apparently you haven't driven a 4age 16/20V car or a 4agze powered car.... then you would realize what the 4af has done you wrong with

i would say 4agze

 

[TwinCamGuy]

apparently you haven't driven a 4age 16/20V car or a 4agze powered car.... then you would realize what the 4af has done you wrong with

i would say 4agze

Im with you on this one 4agze all the way. My 4af was a piece of sh!t.

 

[VooDoo]

biased opinion... 4AGZE!

its also the cheapest to modify... all you need is a bigger pulley. :lol:

 

[mr2driver]

^ hahaha go for the boost or get a mr2 sc!!
why dont you just put a 3sgte in it?!

 

[micro214_kp61]

^ hahaha go for the boost or get a mr2 sc!!
why dont you just put a 3sgte in it?!

oh my, here we go again!

what about 7A-GZTE with 100 shot NOS! :thumbup: :naughty:

 

[mr2driver]

^ i was just kidding
even the 4age silver top is much better than the 4ag
though yes the 4agze is still the best

its a ae92 not a ae86 so the extra torqe for drifting is not an option
if it is the ae86 i would say the sc one cause of the torqe and on lower rpms

IMO i would just go for whatever engine you can get you lil paws on.

 

[rezzle]

If you live in western Canada these guys are the best ...

jdmsource.ca

He just sold his last gze well.. today but should be getting more in next week, ( that is when I'm buying my new (used) one.

 

[REN69]

apparently you haven't driven a 4age 16/20V car or a 4agze powered car.... then you would realize what the 4af has done you wrong with

i would say 4agze

Don't worry, he's getting a free ride on whichever car I'm driving if he comes to a TN Scarborough meet. Maybe I'll even let him drive it. :ugh3: :lol:

 

[canadianae92]

hmm it'd be cool to have a gza you can install a custom switch to turn on and off the S/C and save money on gas, then just switch it on when you want that power meeeeeeeeoooooooow meeeeeeeeeeeooooooooooooowwwwww is something what it sounds like hahaha.

And about the dyno of the blacktop, I beleive there is somethnig wrong with a senser or the ecu or something the air to fuel ratio shouldnt go down as the rpms raise.

 

[canadianae92]

Also has anyone had experience with jdmsource.ca? Might order a 20v from them. A gain of 20 hp for $900 or so isnt bad all though lots of work is involved.

 

[toyotaspeed90]

^ hahaha go for the boost or get a mr2 sc!!

um, all 4agze's have the 'mr2 sc' which is just an SC12. However, the previas s/c's are actually larger (sc14). The mr2's also actually have the lowest power 4agze that was available.

^ i was just kidding
even the 4age silver top is much better than the 4ag
though yes the 4agze is still the best

its a ae92 not a ae86 so the extra torqe for drifting is not an option
if it is the ae86 i would say the sc one cause of the torqe and on lower rpms

IMO i would just go for whatever engine you can get you lil paws on.

ok, run that by me again??? From what i've seen most drift cars are setup for higher revving applications or turbo applications (which is more of a high rev application than a supercharger, obviously). Mainly because you have more control of the car if you stay in gear and have a long rpm band to play around in (don't need to worry about weight shifts as much when shifting gears....)

Also.... really, the 20V isn't all that much better than the 16V's.... dynos have shown that the silvertop really only produces about 10whp more than a silvertop or a good running bigport..... add on the ITB's and larger cams (because both 20V's came with cams larger than any of the 16V's) and you'll easily reach that extra 10hp figure.

Now.... i'm going to give you my real answer to this question....

What do you want to do with the car?

Around the town driving, getting on the freeway fast, occasional auto-x events -
the 4agze is great for this. you can easily out accelerate MANY cars on the road, which helps if needing to maneuver through traffic or whatnot. The power is there for auto-x events, however there is almost too much power for short runs - ie you lose time because you have to brake more.

Gas mileage, fun car, great handling, lots of auto-x and some/lots of road course -
Either a tuned smallport 16V or a 20V. The tranny you *should* use on the gze is quite heavy, and so is the s/c setup - the car loses a lot of its 'nimbleness'. Having a high revving motor that runs & runs & runs and never overheats is great on and off the track. You will also get better gas mileage with this setup. The motors are well balanced and have good power proportion through the band (ie, it isn't all that jumpy) and help with good smooth acceleration - which is what you want for a great handling car.

1/4 mile -
ae101 4agze, stripped of it's supercharger parts.... larger cams, n/a intake manifold, a large turbo, E series tranny, and a fuel/ignition setup to support it all.

 

[freakinbox]

ACtually I have driving a 4age 16v in an ae86. Yes it was more powerful. It felt amazing. but I don't know shoving the 4age into my car would change it. I prove time and time again that I don't need the power to beat people in cornering. Since I don't really need it why get it? like the 4af can do 200 km/h goin down the hwy. If I had the 4age I would probably end up in trouble or end up killing myself

 

[micro214_kp61]

good points Thomas... just quick Q, why use an E series tranny on the MAP GZE? is it strong enough? why not just run the stock tranny? just curious.

btw, the larger aftermarket cams for 16Vs are about the same price for a 1st Gen ST 20V.

 

[micro214_kp61]

ACtually I have driving a 4age 16v in an ae86. Yes it was more powerful. It felt amazing. but I don't know shoving the 4age into my car would change it. I prove time and time again that I don't need the power to beat people in cornering. Since I don't really need it why get it? like the 4af can do 200 km/h goin down the hwy. If I had the 4age I would probably end up in trouble or end up killing myself

you wanna know the truth... drive it on a ROAD course against the B16s, 4A-GEs and SR20s, then tell me if you can beat those guys on the corners while driving the 4A-F.

FYI, doing 200 km/h... you ARE in trouble already!

 

[rezzle]

Also has anyone had experience with jdmsource.ca? Might order a 20v from them. A gain of 20 hp for $900 or so isnt bad all though lots of work is involved.

He's is in Calgary, you may want to see if there is anyone local to help you but so far I have only heard of one bad experience with him, and that motor was actually provided second hand.

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59759&highlight=jdm+source

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32499&highlight=jdm+source

but be forwarned the 20v is not that much of a performance gain over the stock AG. If you are gonna do all that work (swap) wouldn't you want more for it.

I would also be wary because that is 900 USD

 

[aaron7]

Biased opinion... go with a 20v

I love it... just the way it looks... so sexy. ITB's!!! :lol:

Never driven a 4agze... so I couldn't tell ya.

 

[toyotaspeed90]

you should use an E series because the C series tend to break on hard launches with a GZE