[ekolpack]

'86 Pickup w/ 22r - Starts fine after sitting a couple days, and runs great for about 3-4 seconds, then runs rough, sputters, and dies after about 10-12 seconds. I can keep it running by adding throttle, but again, would run very rough, and very rich.

Put camera on carb and could see gas filling up ALL THE WAY up in sight window, past viewable area, then sputter and die.

Rebuilt carb, new gaskets, jets, spent hours cleaning everything....new float, new float fuel cut needle thingy, adjusted float to spec (48mm and just under 10mm). Fuel cut solenoid clicks when hooked up but white wire doesn't do to ground, connected white direct to batt neg, now solenoid clicks on with IGN.

Played with all the adjust screws, minor differences in the way it runs, but sputtering/dying problem isn't affected.

Reinstalled carb + replaced lotsa vacuum lines for good measure.....SAME EXACT PROBLEM! Float bowl fills up past sight window very quick, then truck sputters and dies unless I keep applying throttle, which keeps it alive, but running very rough and rich.

Fuel pressure gauge + regulator installed. Reading about 4psi while running. Never overflows with gas, no leaks detected, just fills way too high. Maybe I need to set the float way lower for some reason? Even if it works, that seems like a work around that wouldn't be addressing the actual problem.

Any ideas? Resoldered the stupid grey ECC computer for good measure, but it seems like an issue with the carb itself? Or vacuum line? Isn't that float/needle supposed to cut all fuel going into the bowl? How else would it be getting in there?!

Just took this video (

) showing what's going on. I'm keeping my foot slightly on the throttle pretty much the whole time, you can hear it try to die the couple times I let it up. Also, it's running VERY rich this whole time....lotsa white smoke coming out tailpipe (no catalytic on this truck BTW, it's been straight piped).

Thanks fellas!

 

[Old Mechanic]

Bend the tab on the float to make it too low then work your way up gradually to the right level.

 

[Gugi53]

If it was running well, just take it apart and clean it, prob got trash in it, sounds like the float stuck open, trash in the needle and seat? Change your fuel filter as well. Good luck.

 

[ekolpack]

Bend the tab on the float to make it too low then work your way up gradually to the right level.

I will try this, thanks!

 

[ekolpack]

If it was running well, just take it apart and clean it, prob got trash in it, sounds like the float stuck open, trash in the needle and seat? Change your fuel filter as well. Good luck.

It's unknown the last time it was running well. I bought it from previous owner who did head gasket, fuel pump and filter, new distributor, plugs, wires, set timing and tried some other random stuff. He told me it has to be something with the carb. I did the rebuild and added fuel regulator and gauge, this seemed to make it run a bit smoother for the few seconds it does idle when it's cold, but didn't seem to effect the filling with bowl gas, sputtering and dying problem at all.

Will try Old Mechanic's advice, bending the tab so the float rides lower than it's supposed to. After all the stuff I've tried, I'm a couple steps away from just ripping it all out and going Offy intake + Weber 32/36.

 

[retiredat444]

I usually suggest that people not adjust carb float when rebuilding, as it is the hardest thing to do and the stock carb float setting usually does not change on it's own. The kit float adjustment stuff is just junk. the parts are fine. that, said, after you have try the method in the posts above.

 

[ekolpack]

Thanks for the info. Can you confirm if the passage that is supposed to be blocked by the float needle is the only way for gas to get into the carb? Like that needle serves as a master shut-off for all fuel? If so, that's gotta be where the problem is. If there is some other circuit or bypass or passageway for fuel to get in, it may have another issue.

 

[retiredat444]

there is a primary pump used when you mash the gas pedal. it is a piston plunger. There are several passageways and that have a spring and ball bearing. If the primary pump is somehow setup wrong, not sure if that can flood it, without pushing it. if you did mess up the float setting the main jet will let too much gas in. but it would have to really flood it to stop it from running. as long as the window shows half full it should run.

 

[ekolpack]

there is a primary pump used when you mash the gas pedal. it is a piston plunger. There are several passageways and that have a spring and ball bearing. If the primary pump is somehow setup wrong, not sure if that can flood it, without pushing it. if you did mess up the float setting the main jet will let too much gas in. but it would have to really flood it to stop it from running. as long as the window shows half full it should run.

I used two rebuild kits, both came with ball bearings, but couldn't find any ball bearings in my carb, or in the FSM, or any of the rebuild guides, or even specified in forum threads (except for the 20r). The only places with springs were larger springs on pumps and the outer vent.

The window definitely isn't showing half full, it fills quickly above the window and out of view and then seems to be flooding into the secondary venturi and down into the intake. You can see this is the video:

 

[retiredat444]

you were not kidding! it is a flood! it is hard to get the float back to original, you have to treat it gingerly ! small movements and car, get the tabs , I hate using the word bend. Get the main jet to close the fuel off. It only takes a tiny bit. Get a cheap caliper calibration tool from places like harbor freight. I think they are like $5.00. it is a slide measurement in thousandths and hundredths of an inch or mm. or by eye, but be careful, as you can break the solder and floats. it only needs to move a tiny bit tiny tiny bit. you should put a rag in the opening of the carb when working around it, so nothing falls inside. IMHO

 

[retiredat444]

The linkage isn't causing this, it is definitely the float. Hopefully, when you get to the part to adjust the carb stuff.,, linkage, there is a procedure for setting all that stuff. I know it is the factory manual, but am not sure if it is in like chiltons manual.

 

[Old Mechanic]

Only one way for fuel to get into the carb. Clamp off the supply line to cut off fuel delivery. Use that to keep float level where it needs to be and see how it runs before you do anything else.
I think the assumption that everything else in the carb is perfect is probably flawed, but this technique makes YOU the float adjustment, so you can see the results before, messing with anything else.
Done a lot of carbs, oldest was my 37 Ford Stromberg 48. That engine idles at 300 RPM, idle set correctly the car moved at 7 MPH in top gear at idle.
Chances are you would be better to have it professionally rebuilt. Typically the emulsion tubes have clogged orifices.

 

[retiredat444]

the carbs I did had a coating of varnish from all of the fuel.. and carb cleaner would usually clean it up pretty good, in pieces, soaking. A new carb is always best, but going back to this carb, get the float fixed. Unless you find an aftermarket carb. Yes, there might be a carb rebuilder you can try. the small carb like this, the rotating butterfly valves usually were still in very good shape, and after cleaning were good. The larger carbs with heavy springs the rotating butterfly valves usually wore the round parts oval so the butterfly valves would never again sit and rotate correctly. And the rebuild shops would reuse they carbs without every fixing the worn round shaft into oval butterfly shaft holding parts. Selling these to unsuspecting customers in the chain auto parts stores.

 

[Old Mechanic]

That's not a carb. it's a toilet .Get the float level right or get another carb, preferably one you KNOW works. Let us know the results of you being the float control valve. Keep it close then it should run fine, or it has other problems.

 

[retiredat444]

it looks like it dumped enough fuel to get into the oil, as it will leak past the rings if enough fuel goes down the intake. and could hydro lock if enough fuel dumped in, but that is quite a bit of fuel.

 

[ekolpack]

THANK YOU everyone for your input on this. Float level was indeed the problem (even though it was carefully adjusted to FSM spec). I basically pushed the needle holder/pusher arm around til it idled nicely with the float level roughly in the middle. Seems ridiculous after all that time getting the float level within a fraction of a mm to FSM spec, it was still way off and the proper technique is just jab it randomly with a screwdriver until it behaves and the fuel level rides within the lines of the sight window.

Soooooo, after about 10 minutes of idling nicely and feeling pretty good about myself, I hear a sudden "Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....." sound that doesn't go away. See exhaust gas coming out near the exhaust manifold...."Ahhhhh, must be an exhaust manifold issue"....then I noticed the radiator boiling over. FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU......

So yeah, I'm guessing previous owner botched the head gasket job, likely didn't verify heads were properly flat before putting em back on so it just blew again with minimal stress. So, yeah....this oughta be fun. Never done a head gasket before....guess there's a first time for everything.

 

[ekolpack]

Checked oil, there's definitely gas in it. So this may be my fault. If tons of gas leaked down into the oil pan (which is likely) that could cause all kinds of problems, including overheating and blown head gasket, correct?

It was running so smoothly though....nice smooth idle around 800rpm or so, not running rich, didn't notice anything off til I heard the "Squeeeee..." sound. Gunna drain oil and try to determine how much gas is in there.

 

[ekolpack]

Okay, the saga continues....there's a pool of radiator fluid in my cab. I have a feeling the "Squeeeeeee..." sound I heard was from a blown radiator line because of overheating. Soooo, not exactly good, but it's possible the head gasket is still fine and radiator fluid was heating up due to general engine stress cause of watered down oil, rather than boiling directly as a result of exhaust gasses from a blown head gasket...I hope, I hope. Going to change oil, check radiator fluid, fix the leak and proceed with extreme caution. Unfortunately the temp gauge on my dash isn't working....might wanna fix that before I go much further.

 

[DCM]

Does it have the original clutch fan? Definitely get that temp gauge working!

 

[ekolpack]

Does it have the original clutch fan? Definitely get that temp gauge working!

I'm not sure, didn't come with any records at all. Fan was definitely moving happily though, didn't seem to be having any issues. Pretty sure it's just a blown radiator line, or even just seeping out around a hose connection. Wanna get a clear container big enough to drain everything into so I can see how much gas was really in the oil. It seems like a lot, which isn't a huge surprise given how long I've been trying to get this thing running, all while it was dumping fuel directly into my engine.