Toyota Nation Forum banner

441 - 460 of 484 Posts

·
Diehard Rams Fan
Joined
·
21,721 Posts
I think Apple has more consistent quality. The difference in the camera/picture quality alone between my Samsung and my son's and wife's iPhone is night and day, with the Apple surpassing the Samsung in picture quality (color, clarity, definition) by a long shot. My guess is that if you want to get into either observing the workings of your F/IC and/or doing some tuning or data-logging, a Window-based laptop would be your best option. I've seen Windows 7-based ones on eBay for around $50.00 used. The AEM software was designed to run on Windows 7. Maybe 75Aces could chime in. I'd be interested in hearing about the virtual box myself, if only for my own education.
I'll have to look around. I'm wondering if I have one of my old Dell laptops around. If I do I'll have to see if they still work. Does it have to be Windows 7? How old is that? I haven't used a PC in so long I don't know what the current Windows # is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Discussion Starter #442
I'll have to look around. I'm wondering if I have one of my old Dell laptops around. If I do I'll have to see if they still work. Does it have to be Windows 7? How old is that? I haven't used a PC in so long I don't know what the current Windows # is.
Not sure which previous versions of Windows might work with the F/IC software. Windows 7 must to be at least 10 years old. The current Window is "10". I think Vista or XP came before 7. I wouldn't be surprised if the F/IC software worked on Vista or XP. I couldn't nail down precisely when the F/IC was released but I did see a forum announcement from back in 2006 that referred to AEM's impending release of the product.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Discussion Starter #443
Water Injection System Installation Starts

I got the pump mounted. I made a small bracket from aluminum plating I had lying around. In my junk drawer, I got lucky and found exactly 6 carriage style bolts and nuts. The pump is very solidly mounted and I put foam rubber between the plate and the chassis to help reduce noise. I decided to use my new, more powerful pump and I'm glad I did. It is SO much quieter than the smaller one.





I had to drill out the rubber feet mounts for the larger carriage bolts.



Pump Mounted





Pump is mounted well below WW tank and will be a very short, almost vertical run down to the pump. I'll install a filter between the tank and pump.



Since I have two extra nozzles, I think I'll double up the system as an intercooler sprayer as well. I had thought about injecting before the turbo or after the intercooler but I'm worried that it will adversely affect the MAF readings. Yesterday, after a sprited run, I decided to see what would happen if I misted the intercooler with the garden hose. I was amazed at how quickly and significantly, the intake temps dropped and that was with car idling and with larger water drops. I think the fine mist generated by the nozzles will work very well, especially when the car is moving and it goes through the intercooler fins.





 
  • Like
Reactions: SuperchargedMR2

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Discussion Starter #444
More building

I feel that the reliability should be good, but this is a little 'hack' looking, I suppose. The system should be hidden fairly as I want to remain as stock looking as possible.





Surprisingly, the tank tap adapter abomination is very solid. Of course, in 24 hours, I'll know if it holds water. I had to angle the barb in toward the car as those pesky fog lights encroach into the plumbing area.



Because I was too cheap to spring for a internally-bypassed pump, I had to rig up a return line with ball valve. I actually like this because I can adjust the pressure to the misting nozzles. There will be a pressure gauge installed next to the throttle body injector.



Return to tank



Water solenoid. I would have liked to installed this closer to the pre-throttle body injector, but it would have been very difficult finding a spot to mount it. The supply line runs pretty much vertical so there should be no siphoning.



When researching, I came across discussion of hydrolocking when using water or water methanol injection. These situations usually occured when there were system failures and rarely when the engine was running. In most cases, water gravity fed into the cylinders and hydrolocked the engines. Because my injection points are much higher than the highest water level, I can't see any issues. Also, my injector feeding the engine can produce max 100 cc/ minute divided into 4 cylinders. Even if the system stuck on during driving, it would take around 50 ccs of water to hydrolock one cylinder in one cycle. Also, I expect that there would be serious driveability issues related to quenched combustion before any hydrolocking could occur.
 

·
Diehard Rams Fan
Joined
·
21,721 Posts
You've done a lot to figure this out. Good job! I've been so happy with how mine runs that I'm not 2 concerned with doing something like this. This is a lot of work so I'll have to see how and what it does for you over time. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Discussion Starter #446
You've done a lot to figure this out. Good job! I've been so happy with how mine runs that I'm not 2 concerned with doing something like this. This is a lot of work so I'll have to see how and what it does for you over time. ;)

Yeah, I love this stuff. Half the fun is building it. It may not be of any great benefit, unless I decide to advance timing and squeeze more power out of my set up. But, for now, it's largely a feel good thing. I will feel much more comfortable extending boost times and even using partial boost on hot summer days and while cruising on the highway. In normal driving, city and highway, I don't even need boost. This light little Yaris will fly up long highway hills at 130 -140 km/h without even entering boost. The 2ZR is a torquey little mill even without boost. I think I mentioned earlier how I sprayed water on my intercooler with the garden hose. I had been out boosting a bit and the intake temps dropped a lot when I sprinkled the intercooler. I will be fun to watch the IATs when the injection system kicks in and they should drop more and maybe quicker as it will be a highly atomized mist.
 

·
Diehard Rams Fan
Joined
·
21,721 Posts
Yeah, I love this stuff. Half the fun is building it. It may not be of any great benefit, unless I decide to advance timing and squeeze more power out of my set up. But, for now, it's largely a feel good thing. I will feel much more comfortable extending boost times and even using partial boost on hot summer days and while cruising on the highway. In normal driving, city and highway, I don't even need boost. This light little Yaris will fly up long highway hills at 130 -140 km/h without even entering boost. The 2ZR is a torquey little mill even without boost. I think I mentioned earlier how I sprayed water on my intercooler with the garden hose. I had been out boosting a bit and the intake temps dropped a lot when I sprinkled the intercooler. I will be fun to watch the IATs when the injection system kicks in and they should drop more and maybe quicker as it will be a highly atomized mist.
I've noticed the same thing. The engine is stronger even off boost then before I did the turbo system. I think that even if the engine made 4 psi it would cover me just about anytime i wanted. Rarely do I seem to need 6-8psi at all. It's very torquey and willing to go at a slight push of the gas pedal. I've noticed my IAT to be excellent. The IC seems to do an excellent job but I can see the benefit of spraying the IC with some water on hot days when power is needed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Discussion Starter #448 (Edited)
Water injection install continues

I have two extra nozzles, so I have mounted one in front of the intercooler. I have also purchased another water solenoid as a redundancy in case one fails. It will be placed immediately before the pre-throttle body and just before a check valve.

I am building in as many fail-safe features as possible. Although it would be virtually impossible to hydrolock the engine with the small amount I'm injecting, I want to be certain that that is not a possibility.

I will make a small plastic shroud that will channel the water away from the metal chassis parts. It will be attached to the bottom of the intercooler, as, right now, the water drips run along lower rad support. I may also bend the nozzle support bracket, tilting the nozzle toward the intercooler a bit. Or, grind away a tiny bit of the crash bar. The water cone produced by the nozzle does hit the crash bar slightly. I could lower the nozzle a few mm and it would solve the problem. Even a couple of the brass washers on the nozzle side of the plate would suffice, I suspect.



Bracket







Water filter installed. Fortunately the JB Weld did a great job on the WW tank outlet. Not a drip and I've tested it multiple times. It actually sealed just threading into the plastic, but it is thin and I like the idea of reinforcement. The return line to the WW tank works great.

 

·
Diehard Rams Fan
Joined
·
21,721 Posts
Water injection install continues

I have two extra nozzles, so I have mounted one in front of the intercooler. I have also purchased another water solenoid as a redundancy in case one fails. It will be placed immediately before the pre-throttle body and just before a check valve.

I am building in as many fail-safe features as possible. Although it would be virtually impossible to hydrolock the engine with the small amount I'm injecting, I want to be certain that that is not a possibility.

I will make a small plastic shroud that will channel the water away from the metal chassis parts. It will be attached to the bottom of the intercooler, as, right now, the water drips run along lower rad support. I may also bend the nozzle support bracket, tilting the nozzle toward the intercooler a bit. Or, grind away a tiny bit of the crash bar. The water cone produced by the nozzle does hit the crash bar slightly. I could lower the nozzle a few mm and it would solve the problem. Even a couple of the brass washers on the nozzle side of the plate would suffice, I suspect.



Bracket







Water filter installed. Fortunately the JB Weld did a great job on the WW tank outlet. Not a drip and I've tested it multiple times. It actually sealed just threading into the plastic, but it is thin and I like the idea of reinforcement. The return line to the WW tank works great.

Very nice job! I'm very impressed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Discussion Starter #450

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Discussion Starter #452
I really hope that we can meet up some day. I would love to drive out that way again and explore some different roads.
Dude, a meet up is an absolute must-do. I'm dying to check out your car. Think we'd have lots to talk about? The video and photoshoot opportunities for our two cars buzzing around beautiful scenery/twisty roads would be endless.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Discussion Starter #453
Primary injection nozzle installed

I test fitted the nozzle. There is a water solenoid right before the nozzle, so leaking should be zero. I am considering reconfiguring this a bit to possibly include a throttle body spacer and injecting on the engine side of the throttle body. I didn't want do this initially as the vacuum is so much stronger on the engine side and I worried about constant siphoning. But, with this solenoid connected directly to the nozzle, that problem would be eliminated. I did a bunch of flow testing and with the current M2 nozzle, I am getting 120cc/min. This would be perfect for straight water injection, but after speaking with my tuner, I'm leaning toward the strongest methanol/water mix that would be non-flammable, likely 40% methanol/60% water. Since I have easy access to AFR data, I can just rework the fuel map a bit if it goes too rich. I will likely replace the M2 for an M3 nozzle and spray 160 cc/minute. I have a variety of nozzles, so I'll start small and work my way up.

I am going to rotate the solenoid down to vertical. Initially, I didn't think I'd have enough clearance to get the transmission dip stick tube out, but with the solenoid tilted vertical, I actually have enough room to easily get the dipstick out and back in.



Possible throttle body spacer. This would require some mods. I would need to grind down flat a spot on the strange fluted inner part of the ring to mount the nozzle, drill a hole and tap it 1/8" NPT. This would actually give me a better seal as the surface would be flat and I could use a nylon washer between the surface and the nozzle.



Bits and pieces including an extra water solenoid. If I decide to inject at a second point - pre or post turbo - I'll use that solenoid.



Tapped charge pipe and nozzle



A different angle

 
  • Like
Reactions: SuperchargedMR2

·
Diehard Rams Fan
Joined
·
21,721 Posts
Dude, a meet up is an absolute must-do. I'm dying to check out your car. Think we'd have lots to talk about? The video and photoshoot opportunities for our two cars buzzing around beautiful scenery/twisty roads would be endless.
Are you ever open to a road trip? I'm going to try and drive to the TN/NC area again next April to explore the Smokey Mountains and all the great roads. That would be awesome to meet their and have fun on all of the great roads.
 

·
Diehard Rams Fan
Joined
·
21,721 Posts
Primary injection nozzle installed

I test fitted the nozzle. There is a water solenoid right before the nozzle, so leaking should be zero. I am considering reconfiguring this a bit to possibly include a throttle body spacer and injecting on the engine side of the throttle body. I didn't want do this initially as the vacuum is so much stronger on the engine side and I worried about constant siphoning. But, with this solenoid connected directly to the nozzle, that problem would be eliminated. I did a bunch of flow testing and with the current M2 nozzle, I am getting 120cc/min. This would be perfect for straight water injection, but after speaking with my tuner, I'm leaning toward the strongest methanol/water mix that would be non-flammable, likely 40% methanol/60% water. Since I have easy access to AFR data, I can just rework the fuel map a bit if it goes too rich. I will likely replace the M2 for an M3 nozzle and spray 160 cc/minute. I have a variety of nozzles, so I'll start small and work my way up.

I am going to rotate the solenoid down to vertical. Initially, I didn't think I'd have enough clearance to get the transmission dip stick tube out, but with the solenoid tilted vertical, I actually have enough room to easily get the dipstick out and back in.



Possible throttle body spacer. This would require some mods. I would need to grind down flat a spot on the strange fluted inner part of the ring to mount the nozzle, drill a hole and tap it 1/8" NPT. This would actually give me a better seal as the surface would be flat and I could use a nylon washer between the surface and the nozzle.



Bits and pieces including an extra water solenoid. If I decide to inject at a second point - pre or post turbo - I'll use that solenoid.



Tapped charge pipe and nozzle



A different angle

Your engineering abilities never cease to impress me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Discussion Starter #456
Your engineering abilities never cease to impress me.
Hah! Well, tell me that after I hydrolock my motor! LOL! But, thanks man. I definitely do my due diligence through research, but there are always inherent risks. That said, I'm not going to be significantly messing with my tune, so if the system fails - like the water/methanol delivery stops -I should still be safe. I built in some redundancy, such as two water solenoids in case one fails for example. I really want to go direct port injection - one nozzle for each runner, but that would be complex and costly. And, above all, very much overkill for an 8 psi 4 cylinder engine. But, who knows...sometime down the road if I go to the next level, aka, a built engine (conrods, low comp pistons, head bolts etc, and a bigger turbo) and reinforced transmission (auto or 6-speed with LSD), then I would go whole hog on the W/M injection system. Imagine a Yaris at 25 psi with a 6-speed and LSD! Insanity!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Discussion Starter #457 (Edited)
Are you ever open to a road trip? I'm going to try and drive to the TN/NC area again next April to explore the Smokey Mountains and all the great roads. That would be awesome to meet their and have fun on all of the great roads.
It would! My brother lives in Durham, NC. He has a place in the mountains and several cars, namely a MazdaSpeed, that he uses to rip around those roads. My only problem is that going there would constitute a family trip with wife and two kids. I can't imagine us packing up the Yaris and heading out on the open road, sadly. Then again, there's always the possibility of a trip by myself. See, I think you should come to the Maritimes. You could stay with us and eat lobster and scallops (assuming you like seafood). Then we (you me and my son, for example) could take our cars to Cape Breton and do the Cabot Trail.

Imagine the Instagram photo opportunities for our cars!

Some fun driving... The fun stuff starts at around 6:30 minutes.

Here's just one small teaser:
301365
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
372 Posts
Discussion Starter #458
Test drive tomorrow

I only have the pre-throttle body injector istalled. It is an M2 nozzle and at the current pressure (60 psi) it will be injecting 120 cc/min. This is the appropriate amount for straight distilled water. I'll do a run with straight water. Then a run with mix of ~60/40 water/methanol. If the system runs well, I may upsize to a M3 nozzle (160 cc at 60 psi). If it runs a bit rich on the water/methanol mix, I'll have to make a decision. If I adjust my fuel map for water/methanol use, I'll have to run with the system armed all the time, because if I do lean the mixture, it will stay lean when the system is disarmed. I want the ability to use the system sometimes (such as hot days) and disable it at cooler times such as spring and fall and I don't want to go through the hassle of switching between a methanol and a non-methanol fuel map. If I suffer no power loss with straight water, that's what I'll probably stick with. If I notice significant power gains with the water/methanol mix, I'll have the system active all the time. I could run a spring/fall map and then a summer map. It really only takes seconds to load a different map. Decisions, decisions.

Anyway, the system works as expected and I tested the crap out of it with the nozzle out of the charge pipe, cycling it over and over and running the pump for extended periods. My next step - if all goes as expected - is to hook up a pre or post turbo injector. I should be able to run a water/methanol mix through the MAF as longs as it's fully evaporated before it hits the MAF. I really want to be able to see the effect on IATs and I'd have to inject pre-MAF for that unless I install a dedicated gauge, but not really into doing that. I should, however, be able to see EGTs affected by the pre-throttle body injector.

Wired primary injector solenoid



I found an old turbo oil drain gasket. I bored it out and doubled it up. It seems to make a great seal on the nozzle fitting. I'll see tomorrow if there is a small boost leak there. You can see the gasket just under the brass washer.



Final lower plumbing. I threw in an extra check valve as a coupler between the nylon line and fuel injection hose. The injection hose going up to the nozzle is rated for 160 psi, so should be more than adequate.

 

·
Diehard Rams Fan
Joined
·
21,721 Posts
It would! My brother lives in Durham, NC. He has a place in the mountains and several cars, namely a MazdaSpeed, that he uses to rip around those roads. My only problem is that going there would constitute a family trip with wife and two kids. I can't imagine us packing up the Yaris and heading out on the open road, sadly. Then again, there's always the possibility of a trip by myself. See, I think you should come to the Maritimes. You could stay with us and eat lobster and scallops (assuming you like seafood). Then we (you me and my son, for example) could take our cars to Cape Breton and do the Cabot Trail.

Imagine the Instagram photo opportunities for our cars!

Some fun driving... The fun stuff starts at around 6:30 minutes.

Here's just one small teaser: View attachment 301365
That would be fun too. I didn't get a chance to get that way so it would be so much fun. I would love that. I think we should plan to try and do both! You would need to take that solo trip like I do though! :)
 

·
Diehard Rams Fan
Joined
·
21,721 Posts
Test drive tomorrow

I only have the pre-throttle body injector istalled. It is an M2 nozzle and at the current pressure (60 psi) it will be injecting 120 cc/min. This is the appropriate amount for straight distilled water. I'll do a run with straight water. Then a run with mix of ~60/40 water/methanol. If the system runs well, I may upsize to a M3 nozzle (160 cc at 60 psi). If it runs a bit rich on the water/methanol mix, I'll have to make a decision. If I adjust my fuel map for water/methanol use, I'll have to run with the system armed all the time, because if I do lean the mixture, it will stay lean when the system is disarmed. I want the ability to use the system sometimes (such as hot days) and disable it at cooler times such as spring and fall and I don't want to go through the hassle of switching between a methanol and a non-methanol fuel map. If I suffer no power loss with straight water, that's what I'll probably stick with. If I notice significant power gains with the water/methanol mix, I'll have the system active all the time. I could run a spring/fall map and then a summer map. It really only takes seconds to load a different map. Decisions, decisions.

Anyway, the system works as expected and I tested the crap out of it with the nozzle out of the charge pipe, cycling it over and over and running the pump for extended periods. My next step - if all goes as expected - is to hook up a pre or post turbo injector. I should be able to run a water/methanol mix through the MAF as longs as it's fully evaporated before it hits the MAF. I really want to be able to see the effect on IATs and I'd have to inject pre-MAF for that unless I install a dedicated gauge, but not really into doing that. I should, however, be able to see EGTs affected by the pre-throttle body injector.

Wired primary injector solenoid



I found an old turbo oil drain gasket. I bored it out and doubled it up. It seems to make a great seal on the nozzle fitting. I'll see tomorrow if there is a small boost leak there. You can see the gasket just under the brass washer.



Final lower plumbing. I threw in an extra check valve as a coupler between the nylon line and fuel injection hose. The injection hose going up to the nozzle is rated for 160 psi, so should be more than adequate.

Looking forward to your results and what you see with this system.
 
441 - 460 of 484 Posts
Top