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Discussion Starter #461
That would be fun too. I didn't get a chance to get that way so it would be so much fun. I would love that. I think we should plan to try and do both! You would need to take that solo trip like I do though! :)
Well, it's definitely a possibility. I haven't been down to see my brother and his family in a quite a few years. We'll have to see how the covid-19 plays out. Did you have a look at the Cabot Trail?
 

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Discussion Starter #462 (Edited)
Test drive results...

It was an interesting experience. I had read that injecting water does not affect AFR. Well, in my case it did. It actually leaned out the ratio by about a full point. I started with the M2 nozzle (120cc/min). It had a very minor effect on the EGTs, lowering them a wee bit. So I decided to upsize the nozzle to an M3 (~160cc/min). That made a bigger difference in EGTs, but still, about a 1 point in lean in AFR. Unfortunately, I don't have an M4 nozzle, which would probably be perfect. I have an M5, but it might be a little much.

Next, I drained the reservoir and dumped in -35F anti freeze. This made a big difference. There was a bigger drop in EGTs and my AFR's went slightly more rich than without injection at all. So, I think it's going to be a water/methanol mix. I'm guessing that the washer fluid I put in is about 30 -35% methanol. I'm going to buy a gallon of pure methanol tomorrow and two jugs of distilled water. I'll experiment with increasing methanol ratio mixes, keeping in mind not passing the 50/50 ratio. The more methanol I add, I expect the closer the AFRs will be to where I want them. The strong cooling effect of the injection will allow me to run a little leaner and extract a bit more power.

The car drives great and I held it in boost longer than I normally do and felt much more confident about it. So, I'd say it's going to be a success, especially once I fine tune my water/methanol ratio. Good thing is, is that I may have to do very little tweaking to the fuel map. The real benefit here will be in the summer when ambient temps skyrocket underhood temps. Since I don't have to adjust my fuel map much, I can run the water/methanol system in hot weather and disarm it in cooler temps. At this time of year around here I rarely see intake temps over 75 - 80F. I've seen them up over 120 in the summer.
 
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Well, it's definitely a possibility. I haven't been down to see my brother and his family in a quite a few years. We'll have to see how the covid-19 plays out. Did you have a look at the Cabot Trail?
I did and I can't wait to drive that! I was planning a drip in April 2021. Is that area okay in April to drive? Would you be open to that? Maybe in 2022 do TN/NC. Either that or the other way around. Covid allowing. :)
 

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Test drive results...

It was an interesting experience. I had read that injecting water does not affect AFR. Well, in my case it did. It actually leaned out the ratio by about a full point. I started with the M2 nozzle (120cc/min). It had a very minor effect on the EGTs, lowering them a wee bit. So I decided to upsize the nozzle to an M3 (~160cc/min). That made a bigger difference in EGTs, but still, about a 1 point in lean in AFR. Unfortunately, I don't have an M4 nozzle, which would probably be perfect. I have an M5, but it might be a little much.

Next, I drained the reservoir and dumped in -35F anti freeze. This made a big difference. There was a bigger drop in EGTs and my AFR's went slightly more rich than without injection at all. So, I think it's going to be a water/methanol mix. I'm guessing that the washer fluid I put in is about 30 -35% methanol. I'm going to buy a gallon of pure methanol tomorrow and two jugs of distilled water. I'll experiment with increasing methanol ratio mixes, keeping in mind not passing the 50/50 ratio. The more methanol I add, I expect the closer the AFRs will be to where I want them. The strong cooling effect of the injection will allow me to run a little leaner and extract a bit more power.

The car drives great and I held it in boost longer than I normally do and felt much more confident about it. So, I'd say it's going to be a success, especially once I fine tune my water/methanol ratio. Good thing is, is that I may have to do very little tweaking to the fuel map. The real benefit here will be in the summer when ambient temps skyrocket underhood temps. Since I don't have to adjust my fuel map much, I can run the water/methanol system in hot weather and disarm it in cooler temps. At this time of year around here I rarely see intake temps over 75 - 80F. I've seen them up over 120 in the summer.
Interesting. I've not noticed much performance difference in the heat of summer even when the iAT gets into triple digits. I'm sure it's because the engine is seldom using all the power it can make. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #465 (Edited)
Interesting. I've not noticed much performance difference in the heat of summer even when the iAT gets into triple digits. I'm sure it's because the engine is seldom using all the power it can make. :)
I think Jim, that our cars are in a fairly safe zone anyway with the relatively low boost/compression ratio combination. Although we start with a 10:1 CR, we are only adding 8 - 9 psi, which overall, I think, lands us in a fairly low effective compression ratio. Also, I think that both you and I asked for 'safe' tunes from our tuners and the original base map for turbokits is probably conservative; certainly not running on the ragged edge of detonation. That said, I find my map at full boost to be overly rich. I can get into the 10s which is too rich IMO. I may lean that out a bit. I do like to refrain from boost after, say, driving in bumper to bumper traffic on a hot summer day. I did read that water/methanol injection was recommended when intake temps exceeded 140F. This may also be in reference to mid to high boost setups. So, your not seeing any difference in performance with varying intake temps seems right. I plan to get my water/methanol system dialed in a bit more. After some time in use and data-logging, I will probably look at some timing advance to eek out some more torque. What octane fuel are you running and are you loyal to a particular top tier gas? I'm sure there are many, many good ones, but I've heard a lot of positive comments about Shell V-Power including their 93. I can't wait until the border opens again, so I can get my 93 V-Power fix. That combined with my injection and I could conceivably see significant power/torque increases.

I'm going to do a little experimenting once the fog clears off. Of course, as soon as I got my injection system working, the fog rolls in and humidity skyrockets. It's just like having nature's water injection. Anyway, I'm going to install a second small injector near my air filter and see if I can get some benefits without messing with the MAF. With a fine enough mist and a long distance to the MAF, I should be ok. One of the yarisworld members who's a lifetime Toyota technician feels that if properly atomized and evaporated in the charge piping, the injection shouldn't adversely affect the MAF readings.

So, in summary, this system should not only provide an extra safety margin, it theoretically opens the door for performance increase, although this wasn't the original intention. But, we shall see what my tuner says once he's familiar with how my system operates. I plan to bring the car to him within the next few weeks for a street tune. It's just way too hard and dangerous to attempt to drive, monitor gauges while at the same time making fuel and timing adjustments with the laptop on the passenger seat.
 

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I think Jim, that our cars are in a fairly safe zone anyway with the relatively low boost/compression ratio combination. Although we start with a 10:1 CR, we are only adding 8 - 9 psi, which overall, I think, lands us in a fairly low effective compression ratio. Also, I think that both you and I asked for 'safe' tunes from our tuners and the original base map for turbokits is probably conservative; certainly not running on the ragged edge of detonation. That said, I find my map at full boost to be overly rich. I can get into the 10s which is too rich IMO. I may lean that out a bit. I do like to refrain from boost after, say, driving in bumper to bumper traffic on a hot summer day. I did read that water/methanol injection was recommended when intake temps exceeded 140F. This may also be in reference to mid to high boost setups. So, your not seeing any difference in performance with varying intake temps seems right. I plan to get my water/methanol system dialed in a bit more. After some time in use and data-logging, I will probably look at some timing advance to eek out some more torque. What octane fuel are you running and are you loyal to a particular top tier gas? I'm sure there are many, many good ones, but I've heard a lot of positive comments about Shell V-Power including their 93. I can't wait until the border opens again, so I can get my 93 V-Power fix. That combined with my injection and I could conceivably see significant power/torque increases.

I'm going to do a little experimenting once the fog clears off. Of course, as soon as I got my injection system working, the fog rolls in and humidity skyrockets. It's just like having nature's water injection. Anyway, I'm going to install a second small injector near my air filter and see if I can get some benefits without messing with the MAF. With a fine enough mist and a long distance to the MAF, I should be ok. One of the yarisworld members who's a lifetime Toyota technician feels that if properly atomized and evaporated in the charge piping, the injection shouldn't adversely affect the MAF readings.

So, in summary, this system should not only provide an extra safety margin, it theoretically opens the door for performance increase, although this wasn't the original intention. But, we shall see what my tuner says once he's familiar with how my system operates. I plan to bring the car to him within the next few weeks for a street tune. It's just way too hard and dangerous to attempt to drive, monitor gauges while at the same time making fuel and timing adjustments with the laptop on the passenger seat.
The highest intake temps I've seen so far were in the 120F-125F range. That was when temps were in the 90's and I was starting up a mountain and pushing it hard up the pass. By the top of the mountain the outside temps were in the 65F range and intake temps were almost the same. I've seen that the I/C seems to be very effective at keeping inatjke temps close to outside temps.

As far as fuel I use Shell, Chevron and Costco in this area. All of the premium fuels here are 92 octane, I've not seen 93 octane around here. On my trip though most places were only 91 octane and in NM is was only 90 octane. I actually went and bought some octane booster because I was worried about it being that low when my tune is for 92 octane. I was going to email Jesse at Turbokits and ask him about this.

I do agree with what you think about our tunes being safe and that is fine with me. I love the performance I'm getting and not really looking at changing it much. I'll live fine at these power levels and if it retains all of the reliability that it has so far I'll be in business.
 

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Discussion Starter #467
The highest intake temps I've seen so far were in the 120F-125F range. That was when temps were in the 90's and I was starting up a mountain and pushing it hard up the pass. By the top of the mountain the outside temps were in the 65F range and intake temps were almost the same. I've seen that the I/C seems to be very effective at keeping inatjke temps close to outside temps.

As far as fuel I use Shell, Chevron and Costco in this area. All of the premium fuels here are 92 octane, I've not seen 93 octane around here. On my trip though most places were only 91 octane and in NM is was only 90 octane. I actually went and bought some octane booster because I was worried about it being that low when my tune is for 92 octane. I was going to email Jesse at Turbokits and ask him about this.

I do agree with what you think about our tunes being safe and that is fine with me. I love the performance I'm getting and not really looking at changing it much. I'll live fine at these power levels and if it retains all of the reliability that it has so far I'll be in business.
I think the kit was very well designed. That's a substantial intercooler for the relatively low boost setup. I did have to buy one that's a little thinner due to space constraints. Honestly, you will never likely experience any issues related to detonation. Due to differences in our builds (I made substantial changes to the intercooler plumbing and I have less free air space in my engine bay), our systems will perform differently. As such, I think my tuner - and then me at a later date - had to make more changes to my tune than maybe you tuner did. Your system would work more closely to the way it likely did at turbokits when they tuned, plus the tweaks that your tuner did.

I have heard a lot of talk amongst performance enthusiasts in this province about the poor quality of gas in comparison to what's available in the States. Personally, I think it's overblown. Irving is the big gasoline refiner here in New Brunswick and apparently they blend gas for all the brands (Shell, Esso etc), but they must have to go by a very specific recipe and I image the big brands do regular quality control tests. I do find, as mentioned, that my tune is very, very rich at full boost. I expect that that's something that my tuner did or the way that my car reacts to that section of the regular map. I did load the basemap that came with the kit recently and, in my system, it seemed a bit lean in most sections of the map. This is likely due to differences in my configuration, my ECU and other factors.

One other reason for me running injection is an additional safety margin associated with my fueling system. Although it seems to be able to supply adequate fuel at full boost (in the 10s at max boost/rpm) it is the stock fuel pump from a Yaris. Water or water/methanol provides a significant safety margin in the event that I do get fueling leaning a bit.
 

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I think the kit was very well designed. That's a substantial intercooler for the relatively low boost setup. I did have to buy one that's a little thinner due to space constraints. Honestly, you will never likely experience any issues related to detonation. Due to differences in our builds (I made substantial changes to the intercooler plumbing and I have less free air space in my engine bay), our systems will perform differently. As such, I think my tuner - and then me at a later date - had to make more changes to my tune than maybe you tuner did. Your system would work more closely to the way it likely did at turbokits when they tuned, plus the tweaks that your tuner did.

I have heard a lot of talk amongst performance enthusiasts in this province about the poor quality of gas in comparison to what's available in the States. Personally, I think it's overblown. Irving is the big gasoline refiner here in New Brunswick and apparently they blend gas for all the brands (Shell, Esso etc), but they must have to go by a very specific recipe and I image the big brands do regular quality control tests. I do find, as mentioned, that my tune is very, very rich at full boost. I expect that that's something that my tuner did or the way that my car reacts to that section of the regular map. I did load the basemap that came with the kit recently and, in my system, it seemed a bit lean in most sections of the map. This is likely due to differences in my configuration, my ECU and other factors.

One other reason for me running injection is an additional safety margin associated with my fueling system. Although it seems to be able to supply adequate fuel at full boost (in the 10s at max boost/rpm) it is the stock fuel pump from a Yaris. Water or water/methanol provides a significant safety margin in the event that I do get fueling leaning a bit.
I think it's cool that you know how to do the computer side of things too. As I've said before I'm clueless to that so I rely on my tuner to make sure that is good. It seems to be as things have been good for 3+ years and I've done 2 long road trips through a lot of mountains. Last year was a 3500 mile trip and this year was a 5300 mile trip.

Good point on your setup and the changes you had to make. It's pretty cool that you pieced it together and made it work like you have so the extra protection with the injection seems like a good idea. I wouldn't have known where to start so I like that you figured it out.

So what about what I proposed several replies ago about coming up there and meeting in NC/TN area?
 

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Discussion Starter #469
I think it's cool that you know how to do the computer side of things too. As I've said before I'm clueless to that so I rely on my tuner to make sure that is good. It seems to be as things have been good for 3+ years and I've done 2 long road trips through a lot of mountains. Last year was a 3500 mile trip and this year was a 5300 mile trip.

Good point on your setup and the changes you had to make. It's pretty cool that you pieced it together and made it work like you have so the extra protection with the injection seems like a good idea. I wouldn't have known where to start so I like that you figured it out.

So what about what I proposed several replies ago about coming up there and meeting in NC/TN area?
If you decide to get into the computer stuff - just for the stuff we discussed earlier - I'd be all over helping you. As for a trip to NC/TN, I would have to speak to my wife. She's working full time and of course our kids are home. I'd be all over a trip like this but we'll have to see how things go, border openings as well. After watching all your videos, I'm definitely pumped to get out on a road trip. (y) It's been far too long.
 

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If you decide to get into the computer stuff - just for the stuff we discussed earlier - I'd be all over helping you. As for a trip to NC/TN, I would have to speak to my wife. She's working full time and of course our kids are home. I'd be all over a trip like this but we'll have to see how things go, border openings as well. After watching all your videos, I'm definitely pumped to get out on a road trip. (y) It's been far too long.
If the border is open next April are the roads on the Cabot trail open in April? Maybe try for NC/TN in 2022 or 2023 since your kids will be older.

I found an older PC but I need to see if it even works. I'm not sure what Windows OS it has.
 

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Discussion Starter #471
If the border is open next April are the roads on the Cabot trail open in April? Maybe try for NC/TN in 2022 or 2023 since your kids will be older.

I found an older PC but I need to see if it even works. I'm not sure what Windows OS it has.
Not sure, Jim, about border openings, but I expect that provincial borders will open before the US/Canada border opens. There was talk of New Brunswick and PEI becoming "bubble provinces", but no mention of Nova Scotia.

Yeah, if you PC runs, we can figure out which OS it's running on.
 

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Discussion Starter #472
50/50 seems to be where it's at...

I picked up a jug of methanol today from a local business. I think I mentioned before that there is a local business owner who makes bio diesel. He buys four 55 gallon drums at a time. He is kindly giving it to me at his cost as he's really interested in my project. I tried to offer him more, but he wouldn't accept. Great guy!

All I can say is "Wow"! This might have been the single biggest improvement in power/torque enhancement since I first installed the turbo. Interestingly, I was expecting to see a major enrichment in AFR with the 50% methanol injection, which I'm not. My Torque Pro app does show an enrichment via OBD2, but my dedicated aftermarket wideband has remained pretty much the same. Odd, I know. My EGTs are definitely lower and I'm basing that on the car's primary 02 sensor. I did several 50km/h and up pulls, about 1/2 of them with the W/M system engaged and the other 1/2 with it disabled. It definitely pulls harder with the W/M system operating. Clearly, I don't thoroughly understand what is going on as methanol has less energy in it than gas. The turbo seems to spool up more quickly, which, again, I can't explain. I could see it if I injected pre-turbo due to the higher air density, but I'm not injecting anywhere near the turbo.

Anyway, I'm pretty happy with the way the car is working at the moment.
 

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Not sure, Jim, about border openings, but I expect that provincial borders will open before the US/Canada border opens. There was talk of New Brunswick and PEI becoming "bubble provinces", but no mention of Nova Scotia.

Yeah, if you PC runs, we can figure out which OS it's running on.
I'm hoping that by next April things will be okay. What about the weather in April?

I'll try and remember to look at the PC this weekend.
 

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50/50 seems to be where it's at...

I picked up a jug of methanol today from a local business. I think I mentioned before that there is a local business owner who makes bio diesel. He buys four 55 gallon drums at a time. He is kindly giving it to me at his cost as he's really interested in my project. I tried to offer him more, but he wouldn't accept. Great guy!

All I can say is "Wow"! This might have been the single biggest improvement in power/torque enhancement since I first installed the turbo. Interestingly, I was expecting to see a major enrichment in AFR with the 50% methanol injection, which I'm not. My Torque Pro app does show an enrichment via OBD2, but my dedicated aftermarket wideband has remained pretty much the same. Odd, I know. My EGTs are definitely lower and I'm basing that on the car's primary 02 sensor. I did several 50km/h and up pulls, about 1/2 of them with the W/M system engaged and the other 1/2 with it disabled. It definitely pulls harder with the W/M system operating. Clearly, I don't thoroughly understand what is going on as methanol has less energy in it than gas. The turbo seems to spool up more quickly, which, again, I can't explain. I could see it if I injected pre-turbo due to the higher air density, but I'm not injecting anywhere near the turbo.

Anyway, I'm pretty happy with the way the car is working at the moment.
This fascinating to me. I don't understand all that is happening either but I like what you are experiencing.
 

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Discussion Starter #475
I'm hoping that by next April things will be okay. What about the weather in April?

I'll try and remember to look at the PC this weekend.
Hey man. I'd still be at work in April so that would be out for me unfortunately. I do have the summers off but also a few obligations such as a couple one week sessions at hockey camps. Again, covid-19 will determine whether or not those camps go forth. Just let me know when you have your computer ready. I'll give you the crash course on the F/IC. (y)
 
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Discussion Starter #476
My 2000 Civic lip took some slight damage so I decided to refurb it. I am re-contouring some of the lines. It will be get a couple coats of polyester primer, urethane base coat and a few heavy coats of clear coat for durability. I have been scoping out paintable carbon fiber lips for the car and there aren't many choices. The Seibon lip is durable and would be an easy install, but I'm not wild about the look. Some day, I may purchase a complete body kit.











 
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I think that would look cool with a body kit and a very slight drop, about 1' just to close that gap a little. 😎
 

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Discussion Starter #478
I think that would look cool with a body kit and a very slight drop, about 1' just to close that gap a little. 😎
I agree completely. I'm always looking at body kits, but am still struggling to find one that I really like. A one inch drop is exactly what I'd look for if going that route. Eibach makes a 0.98" drop spring set for the Yaris. I have them bookmarked! LOL.

Eibach Lowering Springs
 

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Discussion Starter #479
Polyester primer - 3 coats...

Primer went on smooth but barely flows through my 1.9 mm tip gun. I had to spray at close to 50 psi to get it to lay down smoothly.



Primer still wet



Tape removed. Sanding with 400 grit tomorrow and hopefully base coat and clearcoat. I added a mini HVLP gun to my collection and look forward to applying the basecoat and maybe clearcoat with it.

 
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Polyester primer - 3 coats...

Primer went on smooth but barely flows through my 1.9 mm tip gun. I had to spray at close to 50 psi to get it to lay down smoothly.



Primer still wet



Tape removed. Sanding with 400 grit tomorrow and hopefully base coat and clearcoat. I added a mini HVLP gun to my collection and look forward to applying the basecoat and maybe clearcoat with it.

It looks like it came from the factory with the Civic si chin spoiler.
 
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