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frank723 said:
what kind of mods would you need to make a 2zzge corolla to be faster than a k22 civic?
What is a K22 Civic?? K20 or H22 maybe, but never heard of K22 engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
i meant to type k20, but i got confused with all the f22a's and h22's

okay, breaking it up into two parts

faster in a straight line: what would be needed to just increase the max power of the corolla (ignore lower end torque but don't have an extremely peaky high end torque either i guess)

better in handling: well the civic has double wishbones but the corolla has mcpherson/torsion beam which is like the VW GTI so in reality how much of a disadvantage is the suspension? also, 1zz fe has good all around torque especially low end torque. how does the k20 compare in lower end torque?
 

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forget 1zz torque, you need all the help you can get so 2zz at least. I'm assuming ur referring to the new Sis. Stock I've seen them run close to 15 flat, so you'll need the usual bolt ons to best that. Not sure how stand alone options are coming along since you use drive by wire, but given that the 2zz is starting to get a lot more support thanks to the Elise, there should be some decent options out there. Driver will be a factor in this as well. One nice thing is the corolla has the weight advantage, as the Si is a porker at 2900 lbs
 

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Kevs Toy said:
forget 1zz torque, you need all the help you can get so 2zz at least. I'm assuming ur referring to the new Sis. Stock I've seen them run close to 15 flat, so you'll need the usual bolt ons to best that. Not sure how stand alone options are coming along since you use drive by wire, but given that the 2zz is starting to get a lot more support thanks to the Elise, there should be some decent options out there. Driver will be a factor in this as well. One nice thing is the corolla has the weight advantage, as the Si is a porker at 2900 lbs
You pretty much summed everything up very well. XRS does weigh 250 lbs less than the Civic Si (2650 lbs vs 2900 lbs). I was able to run a [email protected] mph with just intake/exhaust, which might be a tad quicker than a stock Si. My main problem was with the stock Michelin Pilot tires that did spun a lot off the line otherwise, I could have probably squeezed a 14.8 out. I am addressing that issue this spring with new set of track radials and see if I can possibly bring my time down to 14.5 - 14.6 or so. I am not trying to beat out any car. It is only to make car more interesting and thrilling.

Considering both cars have tuned suspension, XRS has far less unsprung weight to throw around in the corners so it is a significant advantage. On the downside, XRS comes with skinny Michelin Pilot tires with limited lateral grip, lack of LSD and a center of gravity too high. Overall, these mods should improve the car a whole lot:

Intake
Exhaust
Lowering springs
Aggressive, wider and stickier track rubber (stock Michelins too skinny)
Flywheel/Clutch combo
Hydra EMS Lift tuning


frank723 said:
i
better in handling: well the civic has double wishbones but the corolla has mcpherson/torsion beam which is like the VW GTI so in reality how much of a disadvantage is the suspension? also, 1zz fe has good all around torque especially low end torque. how does the k20 compare in lower end torque?
The newest European Civic Type R uses torsion flex beam in the back. Some of the best handling European cars have used torsion twist beam in the back. On a floaty suspension with a lot of body roll, it is a disadvantage mainly because of the danger of car going tripod under hard tight cornering, but with a properly tuned suspension, it is not. Regarding your question about torque at the low end, XRS was retuned from Celica GTS so it makes more torque at the low end as compared to Celica GTS so no 1ZZ does not make more low end torque than the XRS ([email protected] rpm vs [email protected] rpm). I have owned both and I can tell from personal experience.
 

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K20 civics are fast
H22 swapped 92-00 civics are about the same
your corolla is not so quick, but could be
 

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Kevs Toy said:
Silver, care to elaborate on the Hydra EMS lift tuning? Is this finally an alternative to the Apeix PFC way?
Yes it is. 2ZZ-GE Apexi PFC harness for Corolla XRS is under development at the moment. As for Hydra EMS, it is used to tune both the intake/exhaust lift portion of the XRS ECU (bring lift down to 5700 rpm from 6600 rpm in 2ZZ-GE XRS) as well as tuning VVT portion in order to give it a flatter and more stable torque curve (essentially, taking out the torque dip just before lift between 5000 - 6000 rpm).

You can see from this video of a Hydra tuned XRS putting down 182 whp (maybe 210 - 215 [email protected]). Lift is tuned from 5700 rpm and rev limiter increased to 8700 rpm. This is how from a development stand point, Yamaha intended the engine to be produced from factory, but Toyota deliberately chose to tone and sedate the engine down big time. I don't know why?

Hydra XRS Video:

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/corolla+xrs/0/cf17c938-3684-4900-94a3-98630172cf8d.htm

While K20 motor (alongwith, 6 speed gear ratios) got updated a few times, 2ZZ-GE and the C60 6 speed with small displacement essentially remained the same for 5 years till its demise and still does not feel outdated at all. I can say, it aged very gracefully.
 

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silver04rollas said:
Yes it is. 2ZZ-GE Apexi PFC harness for Corolla XRS is under development at the moment. As for Hydra EMS, it is used to tune both the intake/exhaust lift portion of the XRS ECU (bring lift down to 5700 rpm from 6600 rpm in 2ZZ-GE XRS) as well as tuning VVT portion in order to give it a flatter and more stable torque curve (essentially, taking out the torque dip just before lift between 5000 - 6000 rpm).

You can see from this video of a Hydra tuned XRS putting down 182 whp (maybe 210 - 215 [email protected]). Lift is tuned from 5700 rpm and rev limiter increased to 8700 rpm. This is how from a development stand point, Yamaha intended the engine to be produced from factory, but Toyota deliberately chose to tone and sedate the engine down big time. I don't know why?

Hydra XRS Video:

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/corolla+xrs/0/cf17c938-3684-4900-94a3-98630172cf8d.htm

While K20 motor (alongwith, 6 speed gear ratios) got updated a few times, 2ZZ-GE and the C60 6 speed with small displacement essentially remained the same for 5 years till its demise and still does not feel outdated at all. I can say, it aged very gracefully.
holy damn, that sounds amazing and is really quick too. :clap:
 

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Silver, thanks for the info and with those mods was kinda hoping for 190 whp on that xrx, but then again, the powerband is broader. I think you renewed my interest in saving up and getting an xrs as a DD. :) Might not be selling my SSRs afterall
 

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Kevs Toy said:
Silver, thanks for the info and with those mods was kinda hoping for 190 whp on that xrx, but then again, the powerband is broader. I think you renewed my interest in saving up and getting an xrs as a DD. :) Might not be selling my SSRs afterall
You are welcome and glad that you guys liked the hydra video. You are right. It should be higher than 182 whp considering it was 171 whp with only intake and exhaust. I think it was mostly because the car was still not properly tuned at that point. Still overall Celica GTS 2ZZ-GE with similar mods dyno no higher than 185 - 187 whp.

There are cams now available for 2ZZ-GE and that is what is required to get 2ZZ-GE at or above 190 whp. Cheers.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
why exactly did toyota stop producing vvtl-i engines? can we expect to see any new zz engines coming out to rival those 100hp/liter+ honda engines?
 

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frank723 said:
why exactly did toyota stop producing vvtl-i engines? can we expect to see any new zz engines coming out to rival those 100hp/liter+ honda engines?
Toyota has moved away from this segment. Sale volumes are too low due to limited market and market moves too fast.

Today 100 hp/liter apart from being more reliable cannot as such compete with some of the newer turbocharged offerings like WRX or Mazdaspeed 3 etc. Toyota in order to go greener said good bye to turbocharged cars back in the late 90s (after demise of the Supra).
 

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nice video I wish i could afford one of those hydra EMS but right now my xrs still stock but next month I'm buying S-tech
 
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