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3rd to 4th Gear Shifting Flare Service Explanation

42379 Views 63 Replies 20 Participants Last post by  twotoy
This past Saturday we took our car in for an oil change and tire rotation and I decided to explain the change in rpm when shifting between 3rd and 4th gear. I asked the service man if he knew about this and he said that it was normal operation for the car because the car will not shift into 4th gear until the engine reaches a certain temperature. Then I asked him if this was the same for all Toyotas and his reply was that it was indeed and that his 99 Tacoma does the same thing.

Sound believable? I'm not sure. I would like to think this problem is only minor, but why on earth would they design the car to meet a temperature setpoint just for switching gears? I don't believe this is a practice on my Chevy Corsica...or any other car I have ever driven.

The TSB TC008-06 does not appear to be working for anyone from what I have read. Should I be reporting this issue to the sales person I dealt with when I bought the car?

We have about 8100 miles now and up until November we never noticed the problem supposedly because the outside temperature was not an issue until then.
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· 2007 Camry SE V6
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bjmn7d said:
This past Saturday we took our car in for an oil change and tire rotation and I decided to explain the change in rpm when shifting between 3rd and 4th gear. I asked the service man if he knew about this and he said that it was normal operation for the car because the car will not shift into 4th gear until the engine reaches a certain temperature. Then I asked him if this was the same for all Toyotas and his reply was that it was indeed and that his 99 Tacoma does the same thing.

Sound believable? I'm not sure. I would like to think this problem is only minor, but why on earth would they design the car to meet a temperature setpoint just for switching gears? I don't believe this is a practice on my Chevy Corsica...or any other car I have ever driven.

The TSB TC008-06 does not appear to be working for anyone from what I have read. Should I be reporting this issue to the sales person I dealt with when I bought the car?

We have about 8100 miles now and up until November we never noticed the problem supposedly because the outside temperature was not an issue until then.
I'm partially skeptical about what they told you, and I'll tell you why.
I had a 2002 Toyota Camry V6 before I got my present 2007 Camry V6.
I believe it to be true about the shift delay until a certain fluid temp is reached, because my 2002 did it.
The difference was, my 2002 would just delay shifting.
It didn't do like the 2007 where it slips and revs up like it's in neutral (flares) for a second, then slides into 4th.
I did notice that mine also started the 3rd-4th flare in about mid October when the temperature got colder.
When the outside temp gets into the 50's, it begins to not do it.
Maybe this is a programming issue, in that the code has a bug that's not dealing with this set of conditions correctly.
I also haven't found anybody who had the TSB TC008-06 valve body replacement that it did any good.
 

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mrshyvley said:
I had a 2002 Toyota Camry V6 before I got my present 2007 Camry V6.
I believe it to be true about the shift delay until a certain fluid temp is reached, because my 2002 did it.
Now that u mention my 2002 totally did the same thing a few days ago during really cold weather. Even after warming it up as i do everyday.
 

· 2007 Camry SE V6
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Mistabullet said:
Now that u mention my 2002 totally did the same thing a few days ago during really cold weather. Even after warming it up as i do everyday.
I always would wam up my 2002 Camry V6 a little before leaving.
What I found was if I accelerated up to about 3000rpm, it would shift. But it I drove it real easy, it would have to go 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile for it to finally shift.
I was also told by my dealer that this was as it was supposed to do. It was a fluid temperature/emissions thing.

I also found with this 2002 Camry V6 transmission, that when I backed out of my driveway, then put it in gear, it would slam into gear when I put it in Drive.
Nobody could give me a fix for this.
Then I found on my own that if I always first put it in Drive, then Reverse and backed out of my driveway, then it didn't slam into gear when I put it in Drive.
Why? I haven't a clue. Unless it had to do with an idiosyncrasy of how it's programmed.

The somewhat unexplainable behavior of my 2002 Camry V6 transmission, is what keeps making me think that this once when cold 3rd-4th flare I have with my 2007 Camry V6 could be a programming issue.
 

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So i guess toyota trannies have a unique way of shifting when the fluid is cold....?

Has anyone experienced this during warm weathers and after a proper warm up?

If not then it's a little more reassuring knowing that ur car isn't broke and that it's just doing what it was designed to do since we can trace this symptom back to the gen 5's (& a tacoma according to the technician in the OP).
 

· 2007 Camry SE V6
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239 Posts
Mistabullet said:
So i guess toyota trannies have a unique way of shifting when the fluid is cold....?

Has anyone experienced this during warm weathers and after a proper warm up?

If not then it's a little more reassuring knowing that ur car isn't broke and that it's just doing what it was designed to do since we can trace this symptom back to the gen 5's (& a tacoma according to the technician in the OP).
Well yes and no. :)
If this flare is just because it's fluid isn't up to temp, then it's reassuring to know that they could fix it with a modification of the programming. Because regardless of the reason, it's not a good thing to have an automatic transmission in a position where it's slippping like this.
If they would change the programming to do like the previous transmission, where it just delayed shifting, that would be better than what they have now. Maybe we'll get lucky and a re-flash of some kind could be forthcoming?
 

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I'm having trouble buying into the cold fluid theory .

#1 mine didnt flare untill after roughly 700 miles.

#2 not everyones tranny flares

#3 I live in Florida , I get the flare on a cold start at 60 to 70 degrees
 

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The dealer is partially right... But not completely, here's what I know.

1) I've owned 7 new Toyotas, 2 of them had manual transmissions the other 5 were automatics. All 5 automatics delayed upshifting until a certain operating temperature is met... 1 of these automatics slips out of gear and revs to holy-high-hell when it delays shifting, the other 4 automatics would act like any other manual or automatic that wasn't shifted into a higher gear. --->> No loss of accelleration, no slip, just a higher RPM and more pronounced engine braking until the car will go into a higher gear.

2) I agree the cold start and temperature signals to the CPU are "related" to this issue. Something is getting "confused" briefly.

3) A car can be "cold started" in 100 degree temps or -30 degree temps... The operating temperature of the engine and transmission is much higher than anything in our Earth's atmosphere ----> However, the car WILL warm more quickly in hot weather as opposed to cold weather... I see the magic ambient temperature being below 60 degrees to make the condition "most noticeable."

4) Look in the transmission manual and you'll see there are specific setting for the U660E transmission that "limit shift shock" and temperature values along with mph... Want an example??? See the following video - - I was trying to baby the cold car to experience the flair under granny-driving like conditions... YOU WILL NOTE SPECIFICALLY IN THIS VIDEO - that the transmission had not met the proper operating temperature and would not shift from 3rd to 4th until 31 MPH was achieved <<<---- JUST AS IT SAYS IN THE MANUAL

^^^^ the above #4 will show you exactly what every Automatic I've owned from Toyota will do when it is cold and will not allow upshift. I had to stop at a stop-sign and try it again in the video.

Low speed Shift Flare*****VIDEO HERE*****http://home.comcast.net/~thnksno3/2GR-FE-and-U660E.LS.LQ.wmv
 

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I read the full FSM on the 6 speed auto.

It has a pre-determined RPM and coolant temperature that must be met before it is allowed to shift into the next gear.

This temp starts at a very low and with each additional gear it goes up a few degrees.

This system only delays upshift, i creep down a sidestreet on my way to work in second gear at 2000rpm because the car doesn't up-shift lol.

This system is NOT the culprit of the flare many of us are getting, THAT is either a bad clutch pack (that isn't gripping), wrong viscosity fluid, bad valve body (not flowing enough pressure), or an TCU map that isn't applying enough pressure at the right time for positive engagement of the gear.

I am certain that a few changes to the shifting map of the transmission could fix this... I'd love to have an ECU programmer for this car for a myriad of reasons, but the transmission could be made into quite the sweet sport shifting box with the proper programming.
 

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Hi-

I've been thinking about a 2007 Camry SE V6, and just found this site.

I've been reading up on this issue for a few days, and did a search, but there's one piece of information I haven't been able to determine: Are you all experiencing this problem in the regular automatic mode, or in the manual shift mode, or both?

Thanks in advance.
 

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Using the Auto or S will make no difference, here's why.

1) Using S if you're in 3rd gear and shift to 4th the car functions the same as in Auto, only it is limited to 4th gear.

2) Using S and holding the car in 3rd gear defeats the problem altogether... It is a problem shifting between 3rd and 4th gear, right?
 

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Recluse said:
Hi-

I've been thinking about a 2007 Camry SE V6, and just found this site.

I've been reading up on this issue for a few days, and did a search, but there's one piece of information I haven't been able to determine: Are you all experiencing this problem in the regular automatic mode, or in the manual shift mode, or both?

Thanks in advance.
i don't notice the flare when i'm in manual mode and others are using this as a way to avoid the flare in some cases.
 

· 2007 Camry SE V6
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onsknht said:
Using the Auto or S will make no difference, here's why.

1) Using S if you're in 3rd gear and shift to 4th the car functions the same as in Auto, only it is limited to 4th gear.

2) Using S and holding the car in 3rd gear defeats the problem altogether... It is a problem shifting between 3rd and 4th gear, right?
Using S and holding the car in 3rd so you can manually control when the shift to 4th happens, so you can let up on the gas momentarily to avoid the flare does make a difference.
I've been doing this to avoid my once when cold 3rd-4th flare, before I switch over to Drive and drive normally.
Feel free to do what you want, but this does avoid the once when cold 3rd-4th flare in my car.
 

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mrshyvley said:
Using S and holding the car in 3rd so you can manually control when the shift to 4th happens, so you can let up on the gas momentarily to avoid the flare does make a difference.
I've been doing this to avoid my once when cold 3rd-4th flare, before I switch over to Drive and drive normally.
Feel free to do what you want, but this does avoid the once when cold 3rd-4th flare in my car.
Warming the car up before driving it ALSO avoids the flare... You'll have to admit you're basically defeating the problem by not allowing the car to shift from 3rd to 4th.

You are demonstrating reason #2 as to why it doesn't make a difference to use S or Auto.

In no way a solution... I've found nothing in the owner's manual or from Toyota that says I must warm the car before driving or hold the car in 3rd gear in S mode for "x" amount of time.

In fact the owner's manual states the following...




"Normal starting procedure




The multiport fuel injection system/sequential
multiport fuel injection system in your
engine automatically controls the proper
air−fuel mixture for starting. You can start
a cold or hot engine as follows:
With your foot off the accelerator pedal,
crank the engine by turning the key to
“START”. Release it when the engine
starts.
Engine should be warmed up by driving,
not in idle. For warming up, drive with
smoothly turning engine until engine coolant
temperature is within normal range.





If the engine stalls...​




Simply restart it, using the correct procedure
given in normal starting."

This falls in the "Low Speed Shift Flair" category/video and is probably the reason most do not see this problem. I can execute the problem at will every time I choose to do so, took me two rides to do 2 videos.



 

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onsknht said:
Warming the car up before driving it ALSO avoids the flare... You'll have to admit you're basically defeating the problem by not allowing the car to shift from 3rd to 4th.

You are demonstrating reason #2 as to why it doesn't make a difference to use S or Auto.

In no way a solution... I've found nothing in the owner's manual or from Toyota that says I must warm the car before driving or hold the car in 3rd gear in S mode for "x" amount of time.

In fact the owner's manual states the following...




"Normal starting procedure




The multiport fuel injection system/sequential
multiport fuel injection system in your
engine automatically controls the proper
air−fuel mixture for starting. You can start
a cold or hot engine as follows:
With your foot off the accelerator pedal,
crank the engine by turning the key to
“START”. Release it when the engine
starts.
Engine should be warmed up by driving,
not in idle. For warming up, drive with
smoothly turning engine until engine coolant
temperature is within normal range.



If the engine stalls...​





Simply restart it, using the correct procedure

given in normal starting."

This falls in the "Low Speed Shift Flair" category/video and is probably the reason most do not see this problem. I can execute the problem at will every time I choose to do so, took me two rides to do 2 videos.

i don't disagree that it is not a solution, but if you're concerned or bothered by the flare, using the sequential shift can minimize the problem.
 

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tagpats said:
i don't disagree that it is not a solution, but if you're concerned or bothered by the flare, using the sequential shift can minimize the problem.
I'm only concerned/bothered because there clearly is a problem and I feel that I'm getting snow-jobbed by a multi-national corporation... And I think the only reason I'm getting fukced, is so the bean counters and board members can call the launch a success.

FWIW - - I'm reeling in on some new evidence that the real problem is caused by poor assembly and foriegn matter being included in yours, mine and everyone elses U660E transmission... That is until they figured out the true problem and solved it on the assembly line.

The valve body, et al is a cover up... It's a stalling technique that COSTS far less to execute and eventually go to litigation years later (like the engine oil sludge issue???) than it would be to remove a couple hundred thousand cars from the roads.

In short... It's an odds game you're in. Shift your car into 3rd and let it warm up all it's life and you may never have a problem. Sell your car 5 years later and the next owner gets a free tranny 3 years later if he even knows the fix exists (ala oil sludge issue again).

Toyota Wins!

Us Saps Lose!
 
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