3SGTE Project

2285 Views 18 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Kwanza, Sep 14, 2004

Penryn

Discussion Starter · Jul 10, 2004

I'm new to building engines.

I have decided to build (build on) a 3SGTE as a first engine, to either sell, or more likely, to put in a MKII or Celica GT4, for myself or a friend, as a suped-up daily driver. I was going to do a Z31 project, but I don't feel it has near the same potential that an MKII has.

I consider this a fun project, but will document it seriously with some friends and get some help from some Toyota specialists I know.

The Toyota specialists told me to read through the MR2 forums, ask some questions, get to know the boards, and try not to bother them with every single question I had. Thought you guys would be a great source of information, feedback and good experience. Sorry if I say something ludicrious or downright stupid, but this is a learning experience. Luckily, I have the luxury of doing this from the ground (engine) up. I've learned a lot from reading through some of your topics already.

Here are some questions I have at the moment..

1) If I plan on increasing the displacement of the engine, is there any point to buying a new block, rather than an inspected, used engine from Japan or otherwise? Since I plan on gutting it anyway, can I have the block acid washed, bored out and will it be the same thing as a new block? Seems that way, but maybe someone has had some problems before?

2) Are there any Toyota sites anyone could reccomend for selling engines, new or used, that I might have missed?

3) Any warnings before I start? Any problems people have had from the get-go?

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. Researching over the last week has given me a new-found respect for Toyota owners and peoples' respect for the reliability, high ceiling and adaptability.

--Penryn

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Wraith

· #2 · Jul 10, 2004

1) how much are you going to stroke ???
2)Talk to Dennis here in the MR2 forum of ToyotaNation
3)what generation are you planning on getting ????

cam2Xrunner

· #3 · Jul 10, 2004

www.car-part.com is a good resource:thumbup:

Piddy

· #4 · Jul 10, 2004

If you are looking for a larger displacement... you can either do the following:

1) Get a 5sfe block (the stock mr2 NA block). Build it up with pistons, rods and all that fun stuff. And mount up the 3sgte head.... giving you a 2.2 liter 3sgte or a 5sgte.

2) Do a V6 (1mzfe) swap into your mr2... and build that up from there.

Check out http://ctjengines.com (dennis on the boards). He is selling engines out of the Ontairio, CA area. Which..... really wouldn't be TOO bad of a drive for you if you stayed the night. 7 -8 hrs maybe.....

Check out http://mr2oc.com for more info on V6 swaps and things like that.... there is a lot of very useful info on there.

::::WARNINGS::::

Make sure you get a complete clip whatever you do!

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Penryn

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jul 10, 2004

Wraith said:
1) how much are you going to stroke ???

Depends.. this is a project I plan on doing over a couple years. I plan on building the engine and as I go along, deciding on which Toyota I will put it in. Sort of depends on what body lands at my feet. I plan on gutting anything I buy, MK2 or GT4.. but anyway, it's a pay-as-I-go thing. Right now, I'm thinking MK2. I had no idea you could throw a larger engine in there, but I'm not sure I would want to. I would like the response of a 4, I think, since I'm not thinking 1/4 mile times. Besides, you can boost the 3SGTE up to 400+ HP and that's more than enough.

On the short block(core, whatever), I realize the first thing I'll have to do is buy the pistons I want to match the displacement (at least, I think that's the first thing I'll have to do). I'll be sure to repost in the MK2 forum and contact the well-known guy.

A friend of a friend is a big fan of sequential turbos.. but that's a thought *way* down the line.. and since this is probably going to be a daily driver, I doubt I'll get into that.

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Piddy

· #6 · Jul 10, 2004

If you want a daily driver I wouldn't push the 3sgte over about 300rwhp. Once you get above 300hp you are looking at a lot of mods... fuel system, ems... etc. Even having just an MR2 without another car can suck..... but I guess that is true with 2 seater.... especially if your going to mod it.

Penryn

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jul 11, 2004

I have a truck, which is handy. Runs well, but I need to work on that engine, too. 3.9L that has 110K of hard, hard daily driving miles on it.

Anyway, I'm still considering MR2 vs. Miata as a future, sporty daily driver. Seeing videos of MR2s, great looking car, but I'm wondering how fun they are to drive. It looks like taking corners is a pain in the ass. Asking on Suburu / Toyota boards, people rave about the Miata as a project car, but I'm still looking into how easy the 1.8L is to work with.

I don't plan on going over 300rhp, with either.

Piddy

· #8 · Jul 11, 2004

IMHO..... Miata is a complete chick car... when I see a guy in a Miata... I generally think... flamer. Anyways.... I think the 2 would out corner a Miata any day due the the MR setup. All I can tell you is the MR2 is a blast to drive... and you will be sold the day you drive one.

shidarin

· #9 · Jul 11, 2004

yeah, miatas are chick cars, but you are EXTREMELY right in thinking that the MR2 might not be a very fun drive. They're VERY hard to drive, and corner very precisely and EASILY drift (when you dont want them too!). If you want to hone your skills as a driver, it's the best car in the world. But as a daily driver.. I think it's a fun drive, just might be a little harrowing if your idea of a relaxing drive to work doesn't include taking each corner at the right speed and rpms and gear with just the right amount of turn.. hehe

Piddy

· #10 · Jul 12, 2004

I drive my MR2T to work almost every day.... I have no problems with it. The biggest pain in the ass is letting it warm up in the morning.

Penryn

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jul 12, 2004

In the videos I've seen of MR2s, as long as the drivers have no chance of losing it, they turn great. When they do turn and have to brake while turning, the front brakes are useless.. they have almost no say when the weight is shifted towards the back. On straight lines, they shoot off.. man are they fast 0-60, but you have to slow down, set up really early for turns.. I don't know, seems like a pain in the ass do to anything but cream some ricer with. Anybody with a decent, slower ff car, or a awd would cream and MR2 on any course, I would imagine.

Awesome engine, though. I'm not a tall guy, but I'm a lifter.. and man, I might look flaming in a Miata, but that might be the way I'm going to go.

I don't meant to bash the MR2 -- I'm sure it's a great car, but I'm just not sure if it's a good all-round car. If I could only find a GT4... :-(

Piddy

· #12 · Jul 12, 2004 (Edited)

HAHAHAHAHAHAA.....

are you out of your mind?? You think a FF car can corner better than a MR car? FF cars have the worst understeer in the world.... MR cars handle great if you know what you are doing. If you pussy out and slam on your brakes mid-corner... you're gonna end up around a pole. Learn how to drive it.... and you'll be fine. Don't tell TN.... but I've pulled a good 70 - 80 around some pretty hairy corners that my Supra starts to slip on going 60.... and that's on stock suspension. I feel way more comfortable cornering in my 2 than my supra. And it feels like a Civic is going to fly off of the same corner doing 45. You can watch videos all day of shitty drivers... and still not know how the car handles. Go watch a few of JekylandHyde's mountain runs with Hyde....

BTW: AWD is for people that want their car to drive themselves.... Iv'e driven an Audi TT.... no where near as fun as my 2..... it pulls corners way too easily.... there is no challenge. Same thing in my bros NSX (not awd).... but you can turn the traction control off and have some fun

A stock 2 will pretty much waste any FF car around corners.

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alltrac165

· #13 · Jul 15, 2004 (Edited)

I never thought of the Miata as a chick car. And it does handle quite well. The 1.8 is very easy to work on, and there are quite a few shops out there doing great things with them. There are stroker kits available, and they respond very well to head work. Lots of people are putting turbos on them and getting great results. They are cheap and plentiful. And pulling the engine is waaaaay easier than on a MR2. Super easy car to work on.
Nothing wrong with a 2, I'd love to have one, but don't underestimate the Miata. Heck, put one of the late 2.3L's in there and you'll have a lot of fun even without boost. Boost it and scare yourself silly. They make great track cars.
For more info on the Mazda engine build up possibilities, stroker kits, or head work you can see
www.replikamaschinen.com
The Bergenholtz brothers(probably my favorite drag team) just switched to a Mazda 6, and should be running in the 7's this year in the Pro FWD class.

But if you wanna stay Toyota, want a 3SGTE, and maybe even AWD, buy my Alltrac! It's got a hellacious knock, so you can get started right away on that engine build-up!

I just noticed, Penryn, that you are in San Jose. I'm in Santa Cruz. If you want to check out an Alltrac lemme know, it really is for sale. Also, Replika Maschinen is in San Jose if you get interested in checking out the inside of a Mazda engine. I think we have a 3SGTE head over there too, if you want to see one, although it's a weird casting number and has enormous ports compared to mine and a couple other 3SGTE heads I've seen.

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shidarin

· #14 · Jul 15, 2004

Penryn said:
In the videos I've seen of MR2s, as long as the drivers have no chance of losing it, they turn great. When they do turn and have to brake while turning, the front brakes are useless.. they have almost no say when the weight is shifted towards the back. On straight lines, they shoot off.. man are they fast 0-60, but you have to slow down, set up really early for turns.. I don't know, seems like a pain in the ass do to anything but cream some ricer with. Anybody with a decent, slower ff car, or a awd would cream and MR2 on any course, I would imagine.

ROFL :lol:

oh man, I haven't laughed that hard in a while.

Piddy

· #15 · Jul 15, 2004

Penryn said:
Anybody with a decent, slower ff car would cream an MR2 on any course, I would imagine.

That was my favorite part....

nort0188

· #16 · Jul 21, 2004

Penryn said:
When they do turn and have to brake while turning, the front brakes are useless.. they have almost no say when the weight is shifted towards the back.

Someones talking out of their a$$... since when are you braking with weight shifted towards the back? When you brake, weight shifts to the front... front brakes do 75% of the work.

Page Two OWNED!

Wraith

· #17 · Jul 22, 2004

The one think I dont like about MR2's is you cannot lift mid corner un-like a FF or FR cars...

andoman66

· #18 · Sep 14, 2004

Although this argument seems a bit out datd, I've been racingshifter karts professionally and own a N/A Mr2. I must admit that with all my experience with great handling machines the MR2 tops them all. I first learned to drive stick on a turbo porsche. to think that a miata can out do an MR2 is crazy. Although I had a bit of trouble keeping the car sideways the first day I bought it (spun it out about a foot from a fence at 50 on a 90 degree corner. soundsnuts but I have a strange urge to always push my cars limits and now that I put some toyo proxes t1-s' on it i can't seem to lose complete control. thanks for making yourself look funny though arguing a miata with an mr2.

Kwanza

· #19 · Sep 14, 2004

The MR2 will outhandle most cars on the road, assuming you know what you're doing. Comparatively speaking, it's not as easy to drive as say an AE86, an FF Celica, an RX7, or anything like that, but as far as turning is concerned, not a lot of set-ups can beat Mid engines... I've gone through quite a few events with my stocked out lame looking base model MR2 and I tell you, compared to my other track cars and road cars on the track... the MR2 is hard to beat even though the SW2 MR2's are my least favorite of the generations...

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