[blue TRD]

hi, just some questions regarding the 4AGZE engine.

1. how many generations/versions are there? as far as i know there are four.
2. what years did they come out and in what cars?
3. what are the general specs for each? (ex. HP, torque)


thanks so much!

 

[toyotaspeed90]

there are really only 3..... because I have yet to see a smallport 4agze with an AFM..... that being said, i am unsure if the rods on the early smallport found in the ae92 are the same as the rods found in the ae101 motors.....

let me explain a little..... the aw11 and early ae92 rods are the same as the smallport n/a rods.... large and beefy..... for fact, I know the ae101 rods are actually much thinner -- probably has different engineering (meaning not necessarily weaker, but....). So, I am unsure if the smallport ae92 rods are the same as the smallport ae101 rods. If so, then there are 3 variants, if not then there are 4 variants with the change being the rod sizes.

Here is a difference in rods/pistons..... left to right is:
bigport n/a 4age
smallport 4agze supercharged ae101
smallport n/a 4age ae92 (no such thing as ae101 smallport 16V)

so, it depends on what rods the ae92 smallport 4agze uses.....
The 3 basic versions:

aw11: 8.0:1, bigport head, AFM/Dizzy
early ae92: 8.0:1, bigport head, AFM/DLI
post aw11/early ae92: 8.9:1, smallport head, Map/DLI

Power on the early motors are estimated around 145hp
Power on the later motors (higher compression and they have a different pulley system increasing boost by 3psi): 165hp


my aw11 (came n/a) currently has an ae92 gze longblock with ae101 components..... the 101 motor gave way to a previous owner of the car (long story, I built it years ago and the car changed hands several times only to end up back in my driveway)... I'm using a C series transmission, and the thing is rediculously fast for being a stock longblock. The other day I took it to get gas (granted, was raining out) and couldn't get traction in 3rd gear at 30mph....

 

[Ghostyman]

That is why we love ya, toyotaspeed90.

 

[freakinbox]

that is interesting to know, that not only are the connecting rods lighter. But the pistons look like they will be lighter too.

 

[blue TRD]

thanks for the inputs.

seems the latest version of the 4agze is as strong as the 20V blacktop in terms of HP....

 

[toyotaspeed90]

thanks for the inputs.

seems the latest version of the 4agze is as strong as the 20V blacktop in terms of HP....

blacktop does make good power.... but it lacks torque.... I don't have specific torque values.... but late 4agze vs the blacktop, the gze puts out quite a bit more power overall.

 

[SCT]

4AGZE :thumbsup:

 

[freakinbox]

people who have or have had black tops say the power figure is false and they actually produce less.

 

[Blof-fan]

And they are right.

Last year we had 3 or 4 blacktops on the dyno at a dynoday from our club and the output varied from 122 to 136 whp (That would be about 140 to 156 hp at the crack) that's no were near the 165 hp Toyota tells us they should produce.

Sadly, we didn't have any GZE's there that day.

And if you want to know all the specifics for the GZE engines, I sugest you a have a look at this webpage:

http://www.club4ag.com/faq_and_tech_pages/4A-GZE_specs.htm

 

[blue TRD]

i wonder how strong the 4AGZE is when the supercharger is taken out and you run it NA...

 

[blue TRD]

people who have or have had black tops say the power figure is false and they actually produce less.

makes you wonder why toyota created the 20v silver and black top to "replace" the 4AGZE...

i know the ST/BT engine is more sophisticated with the 5-valve per cylinder design, throttle bodies and VVT etc. but it doesn't make sense as a replacement if it is "weaker" than what is replacing (4AGZE).

maybe someone can enlighten us on this...

 

[RobMilkshakes]

i wonder how strong the 4AGZE is when the supercharger is taken out and you run it NA...

It would be less powerful than a standard 4age, has a lower compression.

4age bigport~ 9.3:1

4agze~ 8.0:1-8.9:1

 

[toyotaspeed90]

it's not too bad... usually they actually are closer to the same power as an n/a bigport (smallport 4agze as n/a).... the smallport gze's will usually have less mileage meaning less c/r lost over time and they have a better head.

but no reason to run a gze in n/a form....

 

[RobMilkshakes]

true. It'd still be much better than what I'm currently running :/

I keep forgetting about the gzes with the smallport, I always just assume the bigport

 

[blue TRD]

it's not too bad... usually they actually are closer to the same power as an n/a bigport (smallport 4agze as n/a).... the smallport gze's will usually have less mileage meaning less c/r lost over time and they have a better head.

but no reason to run a gze in n/a form....

yep you're right. why take out the "Z"? hehe. it was just a theoritcal question.

i'm still wondering why the 20v engines are "less powerful" than the GZE if they were intended to replace it....

 

[Blof-fan]

Without the Supercharger. A 4A-GZE makes about 75hp.
Disapointing huh

The compressipon is different yes, but that is not the main reason for the power loss.

Have you ever looked at the intake manifold of a GZE? It's not pretty. But it has to be because there is this whopping big Supercharger it has to clear. And because there is so little room, the runners are short, undersized but most of all: at redicilous angles!
no. 1 and 4 cilinder runners have got a angle of about 45 degrees! That's really not good for the airflow. :disappoin
The throttle valve has even got a smaller diameter than a stock n/a 4A-GE.

All in all...the intake of a GZE sucks

yep you're right. why take out the "Z"? hehe. it was just a theoritcal question.

And the funny part of that is: With the SC dissengaed (The SC pulley has an electromagnetic clutch for better fuel consumption and longer SC life) you ARE just making those 75hp! :headbang:


About that 20V question:

We've got Honda to thank for that. With their high revving n/a VTEC engines being so damn populair, Toyota felt that they had to go that way aswell and develloped the high revving n/a 20V engines.
Ans so, the GZE is still the most powerfull 1600cc production engine to come out of Japan :clap:

 

[blue TRD]

Without the Supercharger. A 4A-GZE makes about 75hp.
Disapointing huh

The compressipon is different yes, but that is not the main reason for the power loss.

Have you ever looked at the intake manifold of a GZE? It's not pretty. But it has to be because there is this whopping big Supercharger it has to clear. And because there is so little room, the runners are short, undersized but most of all: at redicilous angles!
no. 1 and 4 cilinder runners have got a angle of about 45 degrees! That's really not good for the airflow. :disappoin
The throttle valve has even got a smaller diameter than a stock n/a 4A-GE.

All in all...the intake of a GZE sucks



And the funny part of that is: With the SC dissengaed (The SC pulley has an electromagnetic clutch for better fuel consumption and longer SC life) you ARE just making those 75hp! :headbang:


About that 20V question:

We've got Honda to thank for that. With their high revving n/a VTEC engines being so damn populair, Toyota felt that they had to go that way aswell and develloped the high revving n/a 20V engines.
Ans so, the GZE is still the most powerfull 1600cc production engine to come out of Japan :clap:

thanks for the inputs. very enlightening. especially about why toyota developed the high-revving 20V engines.

really, run NA the GZE just makes 75HP?? this is due to the fact that GZE intakes are poor?

so what can be done to correct or compensate for this?

 

[toyotaspeed90]

hmm... lots of misinformation....

toyota didn't feel the need to keep up with Honda.... the 20V first came out with VVT in 1992 in Japan.... they had previously been playing with their on intake variable system (aka TVIS) which, yes is completely different, however is still something they were attempting back in 1982.

yes, the gze with all of the s/c parts bolted on is pretty gutless.... in mine, I have my gze running on MS and have a switch for the s/c on the dash... use the s/c around town and when I get on the freeway, but then I get over 40mpg in the damned untuned thing with the s/c off. If I need power it's just a switch away.

the "high revving" 20V isn't much higher revving than the 16V counterparts..... the bigport stock cut is at 7300 or so, smallport around 7500 or so..... the silvertop is around 7800 or so and blacktop around 8,000. Toyota slowly increased the amount... that being said, a stock 16V bigport can easily rev to 8500 before valve float.

The 4age's have a similar problem that honda's do -- they lack torque. Luckily they made the 4agze. Where HP figures between an early 4agze and a silvertop are around the same, torque is not -- which is what really matters.

 

[Blof-fan]

thanks for the inputs. very enlightening. especially about why toyota developed the high-revving 20V engines.

really, run NA the GZE just makes 75HP?? this is due to the fact that GZE intakes are poor?

so what can be done to correct or compensate for this?

Yup, only about 75hp. Just because the manifold is crap.
(If you can't breathe right, you won't be running very fast either. :lol

(A picture of a GZE intake manifold i borrowd from a other forum, to show the problem )

You can correct it: Build you're own better flowing intake. But I wish you
good luck with that. That Supercharger takes up a lot of space
There are a few people who have already tried it, but it's a bit more tricky than it might seem. A lot of them had issues with idle rpm's.

But why bother. If you're happy with the GZE as it runs stock. You won't notice those 75hp. When you need power and put you're foot down. The ECU engages the clutch of the Sc and bam, 165hp (depending on the generation GZE) is at you're disposal and the torque is there right away.
On the Supercharger cars there is a light on the dashboard that lets you know when the Sc is engaged. Very neet little item

The Supercharger is only disengaged when those 75 pony's can cope. When you're rolling along on the freeway, those 75 pony's is all you need.

So there is room for improvement yes, but remember that the engine is still very powerfull and good enough for most people.
I'm not going to bother with it. Even with that crappy intake, it will suit my needs just fine :thumbsup:

 

[blue TRD]

Yup, only about 75hp. Just because the manifold is crap.
(If you can't breathe right, you won't be running very fast either. :lol

(A picture of a GZE intake manifold i borrowd from a other forum, to show the problem )

You can correct it: Build you're own better flowing intake. But I wish you
good luck with that. That Supercharger takes up a lot of space
There are a few people who have already tried it, but it's a bit more tricky than it might seem. A lot of them had issues with idle rpm's.

But why bother. If you're happy with the GZE as it runs stock. You won't notice those 75hp. When you need power and put you're foot down. The ECU engages the clutch of the Sc and bam, 165hp (depending on the generation GZE) is at you're disposal and the torque is there right away.
On the Supercharger cars there is a light on the dashboard that lets you know when the Sc is engaged. Very neet little item

The Supercharger is only disengaged when those 75 pony's can cope. When you're rolling along on the freeway, those 75 pony's is all you need.

So there is room for improvement yes, but remember that the engine is still very powerfull and good enough for most people.
I'm not going to bother with it. Even with that crappy intake, it will suit my needs just fine :thumbsup:

yup i do believe that the 4AGZE is powerful in its stock form. i was just thinking about further upgrades/improvements for the engine when the time comes that i want to extract more power from it.