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If you're gonna do the front backing plates, remember that they bolt on before the hub gets pressed into the bearing. Since you have to change the hubs for the V6 ones (are the hubs coming off the donor, too?), do the backing plates at the same time. You have to knock out the hub to take the off the donor, too. Otherwise, you can cut the backing plate at it's narrowest point around the hub shaft, then bend it out of the way to remove/install. 3 torx bolts each, may or may not come off as torx bolts do depending on rust situation.
For rears you just have to unbolt the wheel bearung/hub assembly. Need the parking brake cables, too.
Proportioning valve is much, much easier to do when the engine is out, if that's still an option.
 

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500,000 + Miles
2000 Solara
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Wow, interesting thread...just read it from the start. Looks like we should keep the manual transmission 1998 V6 Camry I traded to my brother in the family.
 

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Discussion Starter #103
...Since you have to change the hubs for the V6 ones (are the hubs coming off the donor, too?.

I ordered SKF ones. The donor ones were eeeeugh.


Tha backing plates are solid enough, but they've been through a lot looks like. I am thinking of reconditioning them first before I install them.


Will the V6 hubs still work wiht the I4 backing plates? I was thining of doing the brakes later. (We have ot pull the engine out again eventually when the stage 3 clutch arrives. We're using the sotck V6 clutch for the time being just to get the car on the road)


Also...


IT BEGINS!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #104
Well we've encountered our first huge snag... :surprise:

We all knew the firewall mount would be different, now it looks like the subframe mount and passenger side mount don't match either!

Passenger side mount

5S


3S




Subframe mount

5S


3S




Only the transmission mount ended matching.

Any help / advice from the gurus would be much appreciated.
 

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No expert here, but I for passenger side I wonder if the holes are not in the same place on the block if you remove the timing belt cover from the 3S engine. If yes, maybe you can do some creative trimming/welding of the cover.
Myabe you already looked at this but on the front maybe the two engines have different mounts that end up on same location on the subframe (or close enough).
Custom mounts is another solution.
But before that I would look to just relocate the mounts on the subframe. You may need a spare subframe for this as you may not be able to relocate the existing mounting point without damaging the subframe or the mounting point.
IMHO the easiest to fix are the firewall and front mount - welding required. The tricky one is the passenger side. In the worst case you may need to fabricate something after all the other mounting points are done and the engine is aligned.
Look at the bright side: the 3S mounting points are similarly located on the engine and bay so the forces would be properly distributed. That's the important stuff. The rest are just bumps on the road.
 

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Will the V6 hubs still work wiht the I4 backing plates? I was thining of doing the brakes later. (We have ot pull the engine out again eventually when the stage 3 clutch arrives. We're using the sotck V6 clutch for the time being just to get the car on the road)
Yes. The backing plates bolt to the knuckle, so make sure to change them at the same time you'll be putting in the new hubs. You can use them with the 5S brakes, the backing places will just be too big until you put on the 275mm V6 rotors and calipers.



Do you think mount components from a 5S MR2 would match?

Not likely. The MR2 engine as far as I know mounts the same way a Celica one does - front, rear, and driver's side mounts bolt to the transaxle, not the block. Also, in MR2/Celica systems the pas side mount bears a lot of weight, whereas in Camry the front/rear mounts bear most of the weight and the pas side mount is just a torque arm to prevent the engine from twisting.

For passenger mount, you can check if the 5S bracket from the block to the mount will bolt on to the 3S - I think they should, maybe minimal trimming needed. The holes in the block should be there, maybe just need to chase the threads. But, then you'll have more headache with the front mount because it will have to support more weight as it does in 5S.

For rear mount, get the MR2 intermediate CV axle bearing support (maybe a Celica GT one will work, I'm not 100% sure). Then fabricate a bracket for the engine mount.
Front mount will be tough, as the exhaust downpipe is centered on the 3SGTE, whereas it is offset on the 5S. Custom solution again.



Keep in mind: you do not have to use the gigantic Camry front/rear engine mounts. Those things were built for ride quality, and I'm guessing you're ok loosing some of that. Look at the Celica engine mounts, they're bare bones and much simpler, though considerably more vibration. If you cannot come up with a beefy enough solution for the front mount, I would probably look into changing over to a Celica style engine mounts: front and rear would be greatly simplified, but the pas side one will have to be redone to carry a lot more weight.


Good luck!
 

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One reason our swap (one day) will start with a car that is already a stick. Also, believe all the S-series have common block mounting points, so you should be able to take the 5S mounts (as required) and mount them to the 3S block (again, if memory is correct).
 

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One reason our swap (one day) will start with a car that is already a stick. Also, believe all the S-series have common block mounting points, so you should be able to take the 5S mounts (as required) and mount them to the 3S block (again, if memory is correct).
If only things were so simple...
Rear mount: mounting holes in the 3S block are cast but not drilled for the 5S mount. Need to drill and tap the holes. Also, I don't know whether the 5S mount is compatible with E153 CV axle center support bearing. Looks same, may fit.
Front mount: turbo downpipe for 3S is right where the 5S bracket goes. Need a custom solution.


You can read my post above on the rest of the details.
 

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If only things were so simple...
Rear mount: mounting holes in the 3S block are cast but not drilled for the 5S mount. Need to drill and tap the holes. Also, I don't know whether the 5S mount is compatible with E153 CV axle center support bearing. Looks same, may fit.
Front mount: turbo downpipe for 3S is right where the 5S bracket goes. Need a custom solution.

You can read my post above on the rest of the details.
Would probably go with the S-trans... we wouldn't launch hard, would be more about strong acceleration, not violent acceleration.
 

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Discussion Starter #111
Would probably go with the S-trans... we wouldn't launch hard, would be more about strong acceleration, not violent acceleration.
The driveshafts that mate to the S series are way thinner than the ones for the E153.


The ones in a Camry won't withstand any more torque than stock.


If you want to put a 3S into a Camry, my advice would be to swap to a FWD version E153 and it's corresponding driveshafts.
 

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1993 Camry SE,V6-5MT
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A question to those who have fitted bigger brake calipers to their manual transmission car: the increased brake pedal stroke (result of larger volume in each caliper, while using the original master cylinder), did you find that the increased stroke impacted your ability to comfortably heel/toe down shift after the swap?


I ask because I found that my Camry, as the brakes wore (and the pedal stroke increased) that heel/toe down shifting wasn't quite as easy as it had been when the brakes were new. I had thought about fitting bigger brakes at one point but decided against it for that reason (and, for the reason that I'd never run out of brakes with the original ones, and wasn't drastically increasing the power output).


When doubling power (as in this thread) perhaps long pedal travel will be the least of the challenges.


anyway, I wanted to ask because some posters to this thread indicated a lot of experience with this topic and it would be great to hear their thoughts


Norm
 

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I ask because I found that my Camry, as the brakes wore (and the pedal stroke increased) that heel/toe down shifting wasn't quite as easy as it had been when the brakes were new.
You have a problem with your brakes, or you're doing something wrong. As pads wear, fluid is transferred from the reservoir to compensate and pedal effort does not change with pad wear.
When was the last time your brake fluid was flushed?


for the reason that I'd never run out of brakes with the original ones
Depends. If you drive on the street, you don't need bigger brakes
Spirited street driving - get appropriate pads and you'll be fine with stock brakes
Track driving, you'll want at least V6 brakes + appropriate pads.
Track driving if you're any good, even V6 brakes with good pads will overheat, pad wear will be very high. You'll want either cooling ducts and/or even larger brakes. There are very few people on this forum that will fall into the last category - I only know of a handful.
 

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1993 Camry SE,V6-5MT
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Thanks Slavie, well said.

By the way, you were right, my MC was on the way out, the internal seal was leaking fluid between the chambers. 200,000 miles with probably only a couple of flushes over the 27 years. Weirdly, when I took it out and disassembled it a few weeks ago the bore was like brand new inside. Rebuilt using the kit from a dealer and now should be ready for another 27 (and pedal stroke restored).

By the, by the way, IIRC, Camrys come with single piston calipers (except for the very first ABS equipped Gen3s). My other car is an FJ (same brakes as 4-Runner), with dual piston calipers, which are prone to the bottom cylinder seizing, leading to cooked brakes and risk of bearing damage from the heat. The lower one seems to get the worst of any water in the fluid or something, anyway it always seems to be the lower one. In contrast, my Camry never had a piston seize (in spite of how poorly I'd treated it). Maybe having fewer, larger pistons leads to fewer problems like that.

Norm "sticking with stock brakes" Kerr

PS: sorry about the thread hijack, please resume normally scheduled engine swap
 

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Discussion Starter #115
UPDATE

After we dismantled the downpipe / cat / heat sheild, we saw holes in a vaguely familiar pattern.


Well it looks like the front sub-frame mount from the stock engine actually DOES fit the 3S. I was just hidden under a lot of shit/



Now we just gotta worry about he dog-bone mount and rear subframe / drive-shaft mounts.
 

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I thought it would interfere with the downpipe, no? Or are you planning to make a custom downpipe that's going to get routed around the front engine mount? I guess custom DP may be easier than a custom mount.
For the rear, I wonder if E153 PAS side axle intermediate bearing will fit into the one you had with 5S engine and S51/A140e axle. If if did, all you'd have to do is drill and tap the holes in the block for the 5S mount. Very curious to find the answer on this, keep it up!
 

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Discussion Starter #117
I thought it would interfere with the downpipe, no? Or are you planning to make a custom downpipe that's going to get routed around the front engine mount? I guess custom DP may be easier than a custom mount.
We are opting with a custom downpipe. My techie agrees that a custom downpipe is MUCH easier than a custom mount.


For the rear, I wonder if E153 PAS side axle intermediate bearing will fit into the one you had with 5S engine and S51/A140e axle. If if did, all you'd have to do is drill and tap the holes in the block for the 5S mount. Very curious to find the answer on this, keep it up!
No luck there. The intermediate bearing is much larger on the E153 axles.

We are going to try and find axle bearing mount from a V6 Camry and modify it to fit the 3S block.
 

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Discussion Starter #118
UPDATES:

The car is officially a 5-speed now...
20191121_024003.jpg

We started the engine installation last night...
20191120_225851.jpg 20191120_225836.jpg 20191121_004946.jpg 20191121_004934.jpg 20191121_004954.jpg

We are fabricating a custom rear motor mount and passenger motor mount today...

Hopefully I will have a video of it up and running by the end of today or tomorrow morning...
 
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