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1993 3E-E Tercel
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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 3EE. I know it isn't a very good engine. But there are a few things I like. I like how cheap they are. I like how easy it is to set the valves. I like how many 3EE's there are in the junkyard!

Anyway I am not familiar with the 5EFE, at least not yet. I'd like to buy one and put it in my Tercel. My questions are:

How do you set the valves on the 5EFE, are they hyrdaulic?
Has anyone tried 3EE pistons in a 5EFE to reduce compression?
Can you get cheap parts for the 5EFE?

Please avoid telling me how bad the 3EE. I am familiar with every part on them, as I've hand built the 3E-E in my Tercel. I understand that they are very weak in several areas. I'm only interested in knowing more about the 5EFE. Thanks!
 

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1988 Corolla SR-5
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supermuble said:
How do you set the valves on the 5EFE, are they hyrdaulic?
No, not hydrolic.

The 5E valve adjustment is by changing shims. The shims are little disks that sit in the top of buckets under the cams. I have never done it, but it looks easy if you have the necessary special tool to depress the bucket against the valve spring to pull the shim out.
You need to measure and record all your clearances, determine which shims need to be changed, measure those shim, calculate the necessary thickness of the replacement shims, then buy your replacements.

When I worked as motorcycle mechanic, the shop I worked at would trade in your old shims, at about half price, and deduct that from the cost of the new ones you needed. I don't know if car dealerships do that also.
 

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1993 3E-E Tercel
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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks for the info. I've never owned a 5EFE with solid lifters. Do they tick when they are idling?

Are the head bolts larger in diameter on a 5EFE?

Does the 5EFE feel very sluggish off the bottom? My 3EE pulls so hard that I have to short shfit it. It has kneck snapping torque at 3000 RPMs with 11.5:1 compression and 91 octane.
 

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Paseo
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shouldnt tick but most do due to weak crank and piston rings that cause oil leakege which cuases knock.
 

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1988 Corolla SR-5
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supermuble said:
Does the 5EFE feel very sluggish off the bottom? My 3EE pulls so hard that I have to short shfit it. It has kneck snapping torque at 3000 RPMs with 11.5:1 compression and 91 octane.
My 5E is sluggish up to about 3500 RPM then it starts screaming.
I have on a Pacesetter 4-1 header and a cone filter on the end of the rubber intake duct with Camry injectors and a 2" pipe all the way to the back (Original cat still in place).
I balieve a 4-2-1 headder would be better for bottom end pull, and plan to try that a little later.

I don't know what it feels like with a completely stock setup. Maybe someone else can tell you that.
I never drove my car with the 3E engine in it either (3E was frozen when I bought the car)
so I really cannot compare.

What did you do to bump your compression up?
 

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1993 3E-E Tercel
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120 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I had the block milled .015" and had the head shaved .065" for a total of .080" removed.

The stock head gasket is somewhere around .060" thick. An extra thick replacment head gasket is about .080". Imagine the thickest head gasket you can buy, then take it away completely. That is how much I milled.
 

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Does it ping on lower octane or do you just use the 91 as a precautionary measure.
 

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1993 3E-E Tercel
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Discussion Starter #8
The engine pings on 91 octane if you drive it wrong. It will blow a head gasket on anything less than 91. It is borderline to having detonation all the time, and if you lug it hard in 5th at 30mph you can get it to ping on 91. As a precaution, I have the timing retarded. It has SO much bottom end torque that it is actually thrilling to drive! My friends both have owned Honda's, turbo Subarus and VW's, and they are very suprised that the little 3EE is so responsive. I am guessing that I've added around 15 ftlbs of raw torque with the cam, the porting, and the high compression ratio.

Anyway I drove to the junkyard today. Got another 3EE block and power steering, and a 5spd from a Tercel. Just for fun, i'm going to slap together a Junkyard 3EE with a rebuilt T3 turbo. The 3EE block was $65.00 with pistons, and a crank. I have a $25.00 cylinder head that i got from the junkyard too. So I have an entire engine for less than $100.00 and it is all in good condition. I'm going to use that and build a prototype 3EE turbo engine. If it works really well, I'll build another one.

The way I get sick of engines, and the way I always want something new, I can't see rebuilding every piece and part on an engine only to rip it out and throw it all away later!

OH and I could NOT find a single 5EFE anywhere.... So much for that idea!!! Guess the stupid 3EE is going turbo as i have no other choice.
 

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Hey! Go for it dude!! :thumbsup:
 

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Nitrous makes me happy...
Tercel
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The funny thing is that for all the bad rep people give the 3ee, it has IDENTICAL rods, crank, and a very very similar block to the 5efe.

The differences lie mostly in the shape of the pistons & of course the cylinder head. Have you done a compression test? you at 11:1 !?!? that's awsome.


I always thought that the 3ee gasket is 1mm thick (0.039 in.).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I don't insult the 3E-E. I did when I first saw it. In fact, I laughed for weeks after I rode in my friends Tercel with a 3E-E. When I got my Tercel, the 3E-E had a bad knock. I knew from past experiences that a stock 3E-E just would NOT cut it for me. That is why I milled the block and the head and got the stage 3 cam. Anyway the cam allows a higher compression ratio without higher compression readings. There is more overlap so the cam bleeds off more air, therefore the compression test will probably yield roughly the same as stock.

I can only estimate 11:1 to compression. I've milled .080" total from my block and cylinder head combined. That should yeild a large jump from 9.4:1. It is over 1 full point of gain, and could be more.

Thanks for the correction about the Tercel head gasket thickness. I was quoting the thickness for a Celica gasket, probably much thicker on a 22R.
 

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Nitrous makes me happy...
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That's roughly 2mm!!! lets see based on my estimate, just off the top of my head that's about .3 compression for every .5mm that means compression appox went up by 1.2....

9.3:1 stock (i could be wrong) + 1.2 is about 10.5:1 take into account some correction, on my part, and yep we're looking at 11:1. That's crazy! but pretty cool. Makes me want to bump things up to 10:1,

Do you have any more info on the work you've done to your 3ee.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I did more work. The 3E-E has very poor intake ports. I blueprinted the intake manifold so it matched the cylinder head. The stock 3E-E cylinder head needs to be enlarged slightly and the intake manifold gasket has to be enlarged. I enlarged the exhaust manifold (not the cylinder head) to prevent reversion, since the manifold is a very large restriction and it can use all the help it can get. The exhaust ports on the exhaust manifold are very large, while the ports on the cylinder head are very small, this helps to prevent exhaust gas from blowing back into the cylinders. The large camshaft makes this necessary as there is a lot of overlap, where the intake valve and the exhaust valve are open at the same time. Exhaust can blow back while the intake valve is still open and it can dillute the fuel mixture. A header would obviously be better than the stock manifold. Fortunately for street driving, the exhaust manifold works well.

I also filled the intake bowls in the cylinder head with epoxy. The 3E-E has a very poor head casting. It cannot be ported without first filling the intake bowls underneath the intake valve seats. The seats are much smaller than the ports, so the seat creates a restriction. I used epoxy to smooth the area underneath the intake valves so there are no sharp edges to reduce flow. This helps reduce turbulence and increase flow, while at the same time, increasing air velocity and decreasing detonation. This modification has been known on motorcycles for increasing horsepower throughout the entire rev range. They call this "Expoxy Porting." Look it up.

Furthermore, I removed all the shrouding (extra metal) around the exhaust and intake valves. There was a lot of extra metal that prevented the valves from breathing well at low lift, so i cleaned up every combustion chamber. This took about 8 hours to finish. I also hand sanded the combustion chambers with 400 grit sandpaper.

And finally, I hand filed the keyway on the camshaft pulley and advanced the cam timing by about 8 degrees. This made the torque peak move way far down in the power range. The engine is so grunty down low that it drives like a stock 1.8L. I've driven 1.8L VW's before and this is right there with them as far as driveablity and torque. I am very impressed....

In 1st gear, the tires spin no matter what. In 2nd gear the car pulls so hard that it seems as though it might suddenly throw a rod or something. As soon as you touch the gas pedal the engine screams to 4,000 rpms. Now for the best part. I get 38mpg city/hwy combined!

After 35,000 miles and no signs of problems with the high lift camshaft, and the epoxy porting, i want to build another engine just for fun. I am bored with what I have...
 

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Nitrous makes me happy...
Tercel
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Do you have a page for you Tercel? Amazing you did that much! You should dyno someday how much tq and hp do you think you made?

That's alot of headwork, most of can't afford, lol! Your lucky you could do all that yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Porting and polishing is very easy. On high performance engines, the ports are often too large and changing the shape slightly, can increase street performance. On the engines I've seen, there are a lot of imperfections in the casting that have to be removed, like excess metal that creates a restriction, or rough casting chunks that need to be smoothed out.

I think anyone can port a head. You can use a hand held dremel with carbide bits. The key is simply to make everything smooth and graceful. You don't ever want to start hacking away 1/4" of metal from anything. Good porting means each intake port and each exhaust port has the same volume when it is done. This means, that each port will hold the same amount of liquid as the one next to it. If one port is enlarged way bigger than the others, it will have less velocity and decreases performance.

The shrouding around the valves is the area just around the rim of the valves face. The metal should be very smooth and contoured. On some engines, the metal sticks up around the face of the valve. When the valve is open about .050" the shrouding around the face of the valve decreases flow. Removing this shrouding, and polishing it very smooth will allow flow to begin even at very very low lift.

As a general rule, I only remove metal that doesn't belong. I don't ever enlarge ports. Enlarging ports can make more top end horsepower, but if isn't good for street driving.

Get a dremel and start grinding!
 

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supermuble said:
Now for the best part. I get 38mpg city/hwy combined!
Milage was going to be my next question. Pretty dam good!!!
 

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That Acura Guy
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Damn I didn't expect a 3EE to have all that punch with those mods...I got a new respect for them :lol: . Get that thing dyno'd man I'd love to see what numbers that thing makes...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I thought I did ok on my 3E-E. But, it can handle way more!

Turns out there is a guy who built a turbo 3ETE. With the stock head bolts, and stock head gasket, he is running 10 PSI on the street. He dynoed at 170 WHP (about 195 to 210 at the crank). Thats over double the stock 3EE with only 10 PSI of boost.

He said he has it up to 18 PSI now, and it is holding together and getting 220-250HP.

http://www.divisionone.org/terzilla/terzilla.html
 

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Nitrous makes me happy...
Tercel
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306 Posts
supermuble said:
And finally, I hand filed the keyway on the camshaft pulley and advanced the cam timing by about 8 degrees. This made the torque peak move way far down in the power range. The engine is so grunty down low that it drives like a stock 1.8L. I've driven 1.8L VW's before and this is right there with them as far as driveablity and torque. I am very impressed....

In 1st gear, the tires spin no matter what. In 2nd gear the car pulls so hard that it seems as though it might suddenly throw a rod or something. As soon as you touch the gas pedal the engine screams to 4,000 rpms. Now for the best part. I get 38mpg city/hwy combined!
Could you please go into more detail about the Cam Timing Adjusting? So Retard=more down low and advancing= more up top?

How did you adj it?
 
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