[doozergreengrass]

I thought I had problems with the cooling system on my 5sfe. Replaced the radiator cap and now have water in the engine (there is a white goo on the inside of the oil filler cap). No water is left in the overflow and the radiator itself is very low.

So, how do I tell if its the head or the head gasket?

My car warranty ran out 2 days ago - 14/10/2010. F**k!!!!!!!!!!

What to do from here?

Any help much appreciated, cheers :thumbsup:

 

[Nervous]

Unfortunately, it looks like you are right - head gasket. Just to make completely sure you can do:
1) compression tests of each cyl with all spark plugs removed
2) cooling system pressure test with all spark plugs removed.

What to do? What kind of warranty did you have? I'd contact them anyway and ask - you lose nothing. Other than that - fix it.

 

[fenixus]

sorry to say, but it looks like you found symptoms confirming the blown head gasket.
also check how the oil on dip stick looks like, if it is similar to a milky shake from McDonalds then yeah, it's got to be a blown HG, sorry pal.

to cheer you up, with proper tools (nothing crazy), parts and a garage, the 5s-fe HG can be done over the weekend and you CAN do it yourself if you are willing to get the tools
:thumbsup:

 

[doozergreengrass]

Thanks. Can it be driven to a mechanic how it is?

Warranty 1 year unlimited k's: Engine - "to include engine block, cranksharft, meshing timing gears, oil pump, pistons, piston rings, crankshaft bearings, cylinders, wristpins, camshaft, camshaft gears, connecting rods, internal bushings, balance shaft, and bearings only. Excluding modified engines, seals, cracked engine block, oil leaks, timing belts, chains and tensioners".

I doubt the warranty would cover this even if it is the head or the head gasket. grrrr....

Well better get it to the local mechanic, hopefully this isn't gonna make me broke lol. I see gaskets on the bay for round $30. If it is the gasket what would be recommended?

Cheers

 

[Nervous]

OEM. Or - FelPro. Wouldn't trust anybody else. And mechanic still will charge a lot for labor (since it is mostly labor).

 

[doozergreengrass]

I thought my previous coolant loss before noticing the white goo was due to the cooling system not the HG, but I was regularly checking the oil to make sure.

The white goo seems to have appeared after replacing the radiator cap (maybe this forced the coolant into the block instead of somewhere else?) and formed within a couple of days of replacing the cap.

I'd rather do the job myself as I can't afford the labor charge. What tools are required? I have most tools to bolt/unbolt things but no torque adjuster.

I assume the engine will need a complete flush somehow before replacing hg or after replacing HG?

Thanks.

EDIT - NO WHITE GOO IS ON THE DIPSTICK.

 

[Nervous]

Check compression first.

 

[doozergreengrass]

cheers Nervous and Fenixus...can I drive it to the mechanic for compresion and cooling tests then bring home to repair myself it its only a HG? I think the car will still run/drive and its less than 5km to the mechanic i'd reach them without hitting normal operating temperature! Will it cause any engine damage to do this?

Also, if i'm going to be there changing a HG myself, is it worth to do say distributor, dist. cap, rotor and leads at the same time? This will all have to be removed right? if replacing HG?

The water pump and timing belt do not have to be touched for the HG replacement or should those be changed out at the same time rather than doing again sometime down the track?

Aplologies for what must seem like stupid questions to some!!!!

Thanks

 

[fenixus]

yeah I would stick to OEM gasket even over Felpro (which is not bad IMO) ... thing is that any mechanic will charge you an arm and leg for this.

seems like all you need more is the torque wrench perhaps? you remove the head by unbolting it (get the NEW bolts from dealer!!!!!! don't repeat mistakes of others) after the valve cover removed (very easy). of course prior to that you need to drain coolant and remove the intake manifold, fuel injectors and all that crap around. it's just time consuming, but NOT hard.

YES, you can drive it like that, just don't go crazy on high RPMs or it may start burning oil .. and when it start running dry .. oh well .. you will be shopping for a new engine. also watch the coolant level and temperature while driving.

 

[fenixus]

cheers Nervous and Fenixus...can I drive it to the mechanic for compresion and cooling tests then bring home to repair myself it its only a HG? I think the car will still run/drive and its less than 5km to the mechanic i'd reach them without hitting normal operating temperature! Will it cause any engine damage to do this?

Also, if i'm going to be there changing a HG myself, is it worth to do say distributor, dist. cap, rotor and leads at the same time? This will all have to be removed right? if replacing HG?

The water pump and timing belt do not have to be touched for the HG replacement or should those be changed out at the same time rather than doing again sometime down the track?

Aplologies for what must seem like stupid questions to some!!!!

Thanks

the head includes the camshaft, so the timing belt will have to be removed either way with all things required to get to it. you might want to do the timing job at same time too as you will have everything stripped already.

one important thing - you need to know that head probably will have to be taken to a shop for mating surface polishing/machining (head is aluminum), otherwise replacing just gasket may still cause a leak.

 

[doozergreengrass]

Good advice about the bolts - I would've used the old ones! So no specialist tools required (apart from torque wrench)? And apart from detaching all that stuff you mentioned, should oil be drained prior or after fitting new HG - theres probably another thread here specifically about changing HG anyway (i'm pretty sure there is).

We own 2 Camry's with same 5sfe so it wouldn't hurt to learn all this stuff incase I have to carry out same procedures (I hope not!). But I will get quotes from the mechanic in case it turn out too difficult for me.

 

[doozergreengrass]

Hmmm lol looks like a job for the mechanic then I think - what'd it cost to get the head machined if I took it there myself?

The problem is my budget lol, but it may be cheaper in the long run to send to mechanic - rather than stuff it up doing it myself huh!?

 

[fenixus]

Good advice about the bolts - I would've used the old ones! So no specialist tools required (apart from torque wrench)? And apart from detaching all that stuff you mentioned, should oil be drained prior or after fitting new HG - theres probably another thread here specifically about changing HG anyway (i'm pretty sure there is).

We own 2 Camry's with same 5sfe so it wouldn't hurt to learn all this stuff incase I have to carry out same procedures (I hope not!). But I will get quotes from the mechanic in case it turn out too difficult for me.

i think (never done the head job yet, just reading a lot hehe) you drain both oil and coolant before you start

you would also need a pulley holder tool (and a breaker bar) probably to remove the camshaft pulley. idea is that you bring a "naked" head for the shop for machining (and cleaning maybe?) ... i'm sure some experts will chime in soon, i'm just a shade tree enthusiast, not even a mechanic

if you can borrow tools from some parts store (like autozone in USA) then you can lower the cost of tools as you bring them back after job is done.

I doubt machining the head is THAT expensive though, don't know the numbers though.
but what I can tell is that the shop will charge you for the whole HG job (from a to z) and that is even not knowing what parts they use and what quality job they do as much as you would pay for a replacement engine (or even more)...

and yeah, the head bolts are never to be re-used, that I learned from many threads I read on that.

 

[ycartf]

I recently did the head gasket (and everything else near it) on my daughter's 1996 Volvo 850. While it is a different car and engine, the concept is the same. If you want to see it, I placed a tutorial here:

http://www.tracystruesoaps.com/tutorials/850hg/p1.html

As far as the cost for resurfacing the head, it depends on what you need. My head needed resurfacing and needed a valve job (reseating valves and placing new valve stem seals) and it cost me $175 at the one place in town that does it.

HTH

Tracy

 

[AliRazoR]

 

[TedL]

I would leave the cap off for the drive to the shop, to reduce the coolant going into the oil. That can wipe out bearings in short order.

I'm nor aware of a definitive test to distinguish between bad HG and casting crack. If that's why you're going to the shop, talk to them first.

The work involved for you is little different between the two jobs. Either way, you have to pull the head. If you need a new one, that's what you put back. The transfer of valves, etc, (if you reuse any/all) can be turned over to a machine shop if beyond your tools/skills.

 

[doozergreengrass]

Thanks for all the input, every bit helps me decide whether its a job for me or the experts!

As an afterthought, could it really be the head itself though? The engine has never over-heated since i've had it (never gone past half on temp. gauge - and I think my cooling system is ok). Are these engines known for cracking heads or is it the HG the majority of the time?

Cheers.

 

[Mike Gerber]

I wouldn't assume either head gasket or cracked head just yet. Have you added fresh coolant and bled the cooling system since replacing the radiator cap? A defective radiator cap might have been the source of your loosing coolant and the residue in the oil cap could just be condensation from lot's of short trip driving. What kind of driving do you normally do? Have you cleaned that residue out of the cap and then taken the car on a ride to see if and how quickly it returns?

There are also kits that you can purchase at most auto parts stores to test for a blown head gasket. I would try one of these first or have you mechanic do it.

If your mechanic installed the engine with the 1 year warranty I would call him today and report the problem, as you see it. Don't wait another day.

Mike

 

[doozergreengrass]

Thanks Mike. With regards to the HG testing kit, how do these work?

When I replaced the radiator cap I never bled the cooling system. The first cap I got didn't fit. The second cap was fitted at a auto parts store when the engine was hot. We took the cap out to the car (a diff one) and made sure it fitted then left it on. So yeah the engine was at normal temp when the new cap was fitted.

After returning home with new cap on, the overflow and radiator were topped off AFTER the engine cooled right down.

The reason I thought it was my cooling system all along was a couple of things. Note the thermostat was replaced Dec. last year. Last year just after I bought the car it started displaying erratic symptoms which I posted here seaparately at the time.

So I replaced the thermostat, cleaned the throttle body, replaced plugs and done oil and filter change. This didn't bother me as it was routine maintenance. However it turned out that it was the ECT sensor that was at fault.

After replacing ECT sensor all was well (apart from while the car was playing up I damaged the clutch somehow from bunny-hopping along grr...) Anyway.

So the car started playing up again a month or so ago. by this I mean missing at idle and eratic idle at startup - for approximately 15 seconds on cold start it sounded like 3 cylinders running - then the choke or something would bring the cold idle into line. it never missed under acceleration. as well as the miss it was loosing a lot of coolant. This is what made me suspect the cooling system. There was evidence of coolant loss around the radiator cap and under the charcoal canister purge valve (a reddish color) but it was always dry by the time I checked. I could never see any fluid leaking from the car.

As far as my driving is concered, as of late i've only been doing a few short trips here and there. But since the radiator cap was replaced I would have barely done 2 or 3 10 km trips. I stopped working about a month ago and previous to that the car was doing at least 40km round trip a day (about 300km a week) but it had started to loose coolant and miss while I was working but not to the extent it is now. In the past month this car's done about 200km. Hope that makes sense!!!!

Haven't cleaned out residue on cap yet, as soon as I saw the goo I thought I wouldn't start it until I knew it was safe to do so. Which btw i'm still not sure - the comments above indicate it would be ok to get to a garage but maybe not as it could screw the bearings somehow.

Other info: on my last drive (before discoverying goo) there was NO noticable loss of power at all. As previously posted at top of my thread, the white goo appeared ONLY AFTER THE RADIATOR CAP WAS REPLACED. prior to this I was checking the oil and water every 2 or 3 days - to top up water and to check for white goo as I was trying to prevent any head damage!!!!) So you could understand to my surprise when after replacing the radiator cap and then topping off radiator and overflow, checking oil - then going for a drive, when opening the bonnet next day after leaving car overnight. and first seeing NO water at all in overflow, the radiator empty, to immediately checking oil cap and finding the goo. Gutted lol. The air filter was also replaced 2 weeks ago as well.

This Camry has never had a CEL on since i've had it, and never been over half on the temp gauge.

 

[doozergreengrass]

I'm hoping Mike is right about it being just condensation, anyone else have any ideas or require further information to help me diagnose? Thanks :thumbsup: