[chs68]

i am thinking of either putting a 3sge head on my 5sfe block or getting a performance cam for the 5sfe head. What would the pros and cons be.

And also does anyone know the approx. hp gain.

 

[chronoti]

with a performance cam for the 5sfe you will lose your low end torque but gain not as much high end hp. i dont know much about the 3sge head swap but i think i heard you have to do some modding to the block to get it to fit and in the end it would be alot easier just to drop the 3sgte engine in.

 

[jackfrost1031]

You have to have a 5s-fe from 94 (or 92 perhaps?) or older because of a change in the water channel designs from the ones that they used with the 3s.

 

[Wraith]

i am thinking of either putting a 3sge head on my 5sfe block or getting a performance cam for the 5sfe head. What would the pros and cons be.

And also does anyone know the approx. hp gain.

there isnt a approx. horsepower figure ... every motor is different even if theyre the same engine code...

Basically you more power overall and have a high redline and you can make the engine breath ... Basically, for ever .1liters of displacement you get is 10hp , thats the rule of thumb... So theoritically saying a 3sge 2nd gen made 160hp you'll be making close to 180hp ... With using the 5sfe block...

 

[Pineapple]

Any different between the 3S-FE and 5S-FE head? I got a 3s-FE head from a friend and I'm thinking about P&P it then swap it on my 5S-FE. I know it will bolt on and fit but don't know if cam and valve are the same.

 

[88 LE]

^ The cams are different and 5S-FE has a larger bore (3.43 vs. 3.39).

 

[Pineapple]

Hmmm ok, so I should use my 5S cam.
I know bore is different 2.0L and 2.2L
I'll sent the head for P&P without the cams.
Unless someone here got an early 5S head I can have

 

[chs68]

if i were to put a 3sgte head on my 98 camry (5sfe) but not put the a turbo on until later when i have the money would that work


btw what mods would i have to do to a 3sge head to put it on my 5sfe

 

[5Sfte]

No, later 5S-FE blocks are not compatible with the 3S-GTE head without modification to the block.

 

[92CAMRYGTS]

with a performance cam for the 5sfe you will lose your low end torque but gain not as much high end hp. i dont know much about the 3sge head swap but i think i heard you have to do some modding to the block to get it to fit and in the end it would be alot easier just to drop the 3sgte engine in.

so far every dyno i've seen of a 5sfe with a cam hasnt lost any low end. they have gained eveywhere in the rpm band. i'll let you know when i put mine in.

 

[Pineapple]

I believe it depends on how they grind the cams.
Where do you get yours? How much?

 

[92CAMRYGTS]

well i got mine off of ebay. they were made by an old mr2 company. you can go to webcams for cams for the 5sfe. they only list two but there is a middle grind. i have the middle grind. there is also a place in canada i think that can make any grind for the 5sfe and a lot cheaper than webcams. when i get my head doen i might go to the place in canada and get a bigger grind made. i think the name is teds components. i think thats the place shook got his motor built.

 

[Pineapple]

Oh, I'm in Canada, lucky me
Hope they're close by.

 

[chs68]

No, later 5S-FE blocks are not compatible with the 3S-GTE head without modification to the block.

so there is no way i can put a better head on my 98 5sfe w/o mods done. What would the mods be to put one on.

 

[Wraith]

so there is no way i can put a better head on my 98 5sfe w/o mods done. What would the mods be to put one on.

major modifications to the oil and water passages...

 

[TubRog5]

From what I've heard. There shouldn't be a whole lot that you have to modify. Plus, doing the head swap is totally worth it. A 5sge/5sgte will most likely out perform any 3sge/3sgte. But yes, a 92+ 5sfe would work best. The main thing that you have to worry about is the ECU. You'll probably have to get a stand alone ECU and have some shop program it for you if you don't know how to do it yourself. This is because the 3sge ECU won't be able to read the 5s block correctly. And, the 5sfe ECU obviously won't work with the 3sge head either. So from what I hear, the ECU is your biggest problem. The head swap is totally worth it though.

 

[Wraith]

From what I've heard. There shouldn't be a whole lot that you have to modify. Plus, doing the head swap is totally worth it. A 5sge/5sgte will most likely out perform any 3sge/3sgte. But yes, a 92+ 5sfe would work best. The main thing that you have to worry about is the ECU. You'll probably have to get a stand alone ECU and have some shop program it for you if you don't know how to do it yourself. This is because the 3sge ECU won't be able to read the 5s block correctly. And, the 5sfe ECU obviously won't work with the 3sge head either. So from what I hear, the ECU is your biggest problem. The head swap is totally worth it though.

really please explain more on why the 3sge ecu wont work on the block ???

 

[TubRog5]

really please explain more on why the 3sge ecu wont work on the block ???

I didn't say it won't work, it just won't be able to read the 5s block correctly. If you want to use the frankenstien swap to its potential it'll be a better idea to get a standalone ECU versus the 3sge ECU. You can probably just use a piggyback to help manage the air/fuel. That should work just fine. But a standalone will be more affective in showing the potential of a 5sge.

 

[Wraith]

I didn't say it won't work, it just won't be able to read the 5s block correctly. If you want to use the frankenstien swap to its potential it'll be a better idea to get a standalone ECU versus the 3sge ECU. You can probably just use a piggyback to help manage the air/fuel. That should work just fine. But a standalone will be more affective in showing the potential of a 5sge.

ok ... what sensor/sensors are there on the block, that the stock 3sge/3sgte ecu cannot read???

To my knowledge the only reason why you cannot run the a 5s-fe ecu with the 3s-ge/3s-gte head is because of the ignition system and the maf is different... If someone wants to save money and want to do this frankenstien motor your talking about under a budget... They can run the stock 3sge/3sgte ecu... All they would have to do is re-wire the harness...
The 3sge/3sgte ecu will work fine with this setup ... And the only sensor that would be on the block off the top of my head is the oil level sensor ... Which are found on the American 3sgte motors and not on the JDM motors...

A standalone is going to make that much power over the stock ecu especially if the motor is internally stock... I.E. stock piston, cams, ports, and everything else... Why spend a couple thousand of dollars to have the whole car re-wired and on the standalone unit to gain a smoother idle and 5 to 10 horses...

But then again I could be wrong... Maybe your right...
I dont know ... I just like it when people on this forum give advise to new people, when they have no experience on the subject...

The Blind Leading the Blind

 

[Camdaddy]

Its not just bread and butter...its more complex...reading it on paper is one thing and making it work is another. wraith is very knowledgable about this one.