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Discussion Starter #61 (Edited)
A couple questions slavie. 1 does the brake pedal just take pulling the pivot pin to swap in manual brake pedal? 2. Does the manual trans take a different mount than the auto trans?

Besides swapping the brake pedal, clutch pedal, master and slave cylinder, hard line and flex line for them, shifter, shifter cables, trans, flywheel and clutch oh and Mt ecu. Is there anything I'm missing?

Also more details about the double switch on the clutch- you mention some wires were already in the car? I want my cruise to work. Does the clutch just switch to ground? I looked at a gen 3 switch and there were 2 wire and one switch. Is this the same setup as the gen 4s?
Brake pedal mount is same - all you need is the pedal itself. It's connected via the bolt and a spring.

If you want everything to be per spec, you're missing the U-shaped support bracket for the center console armrest (it mounts behind the shifter), and make sure to get the mounting plates for the shifter cable to firewall. Also, don't forget that you need reverse switch connector to splice into your wiring. For Gen3, make sure the axles are same - I think they should be for 4cyl, but different for V6.

On the clutch pedal: lower switch is for the starter (has to be closed or no power to starter), and the upper one is purely for cruise control and to act as a pedal adjuster.

Hope this answers your question.

EDIT: Don't forget, you need the M/T tranny to engine bolts - the 4 main ones are longer than the A/T ones. Obviously the tranny mount is different, too, although the engine mounts are same (A/T ones are beefier, but same dimensions).
 

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1998 5sfe Camry
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Brake pedal mount is same - all you need is the pedal itself. It's connected via the bolt and a spring.

If you want everything to be per spec, you're missing the U-shaped support bracket for the center console armrest (it mounts behind the shifter), and make sure to get the mounting plates for the shifter cable to firewall. Also, don't forget that you need reverse switch connector to splice into your wiring. For Gen3, make sure the axles are same - I think they should be for 4cyl, but different for V6.

On the clutch pedal: lower switch is for the starter (has to be closed or no power to starter), and the upper one is purely for cruise control and to act as a pedal adjuster.

Hope this answers your question.

EDIT: Don't forget, you need the M/T tranny to engine bolts - the 4 main ones are longer than the A/T ones. Obviously the tranny mount is different, too, although the engine mounts are same (A/T ones are beefier, but same dimensions).

this is sounding more and more like a yard grab. too many pieces to get to complete the swap. looks like i'll need to nab everything from a 4th gen? 97-01 camry right?

and the 3rd gen i looked at had only one switch but as you say the 4th gen have two switches. darn. i found 1 3rd gen at the yard....

i'm assuming you did your swap from a yard grab since there are many parts/bolts needed for the swap. i'll keep looking for a donor car then. gonna take awhile and i want my 5 speed swap now!

did you notice any better acceleration or better mpg or better handling from losing the fat from the auto to the 5spd? :thanks:

i'm sure the car is more fun to drive now with the 5spd swap. do you have a list somewhere of your mods on your car? it seems our cars are going in the same direction....
 

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Discussion Starter #63
this is sounding more and more like a yard grab. too many pieces to get to complete the swap. looks like i'll need to nab everything from a 4th gen? 97-01 camry right?

and the 3rd gen i looked at had only one switch but as you say the 4th gen have two switches. darn. i found 1 3rd gen at the yard....

i'm assuming you did your swap from a yard grab since there are many parts/bolts needed for the swap. i'll keep looking for a donor car then. gonna take awhile and i want my 5 speed swap now!

did you notice any better acceleration or better mpg or better handling from losing the fat from the auto to the 5spd? :thanks:

i'm sure the car is more fun to drive now with the 5spd swap. do you have a list somewhere of your mods on your car? it seems our cars are going in the same direction....
If you can find a 4th gen in the yard, it'll make things easier for you for sure, as you'll be able to take things apart and know where they go when it comes to putting your car together. Even small things like clutch line mounting and routing.

Tranny to engine bolts should be the safe for 3rd and 4th gen. As for the switches on the pedal, could be that the car you found didn't have cruise control - the top switch is only used for that and could be not needed.

Acceleration is definitely different, as you gain 5-10hp in powertrain efficiency by getting rid of the slushbox oil pump and whatnot. Also, gas responsiveness is totally different as would be expected from clutch vs torque converter: give it more gas and you feel the change in acceleration immediately. It is definitely more fun to drive, as you can hold the car in gear as long as you'd like, and enjoy the benefits of extra torque at high revs without having to wait for a downshift.

I have a list of mods in my http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/103-3rd-4th-generation-1992-1996-1997-2001/544370-camry-goes-summit-point-raceway.html thread. Since then, I've added solara strut tower brace, went to summer tires, and put in poly control arm bushings.
 

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thanks again slavie! this is on my next to do list. the difficult part is finding a gen 4 stick car in the yard!

everytime i drive my car i think about how much better the car would drive if i could pick my own gear. :rockon:
 

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Discussion Starter #65
A member PM'ed me with some questions regarding NSS, starting, and Cruise Control. I provided some worthwhile answers via PM so just copying things here for general public:

There are two independent sets of wires running through the NSS: one set connects the +12v to the starter, and the other set is responsible for the dash gear indicators, computer, and the cruise control.

To have your car start, you need the first set closed - these are the two noticeably bigger slots on the NSS connector. Splice these two, and your car will start no problem. Ideally, this needs to be wired to the clutch pedal lower switch so that it is closed when the clutch is pressed and the car is in "neutral".

The second set is responsible for the gears, and reverse lights in the case of reverse. You need to wire this one into permanent "D", and your cruise control should work just fine. (remember, cruise control only works at speeds above 25mph on these cars)

So, your car will be in neutral where you need it for starter, and drive where you want it for CC. Simultaneously. :) I hope this makes a bit more sense, but let me know otherwise.

There are 9 wires going to the NSS connector:

5 and 6 are the two bit fat connectors in the middle. These are for the starter and starter only. These do not connect to anything else. To have the car start, these two must be closed.

Of the remaining:
1: not used
2:red/blue stripe: +12v
3:blue: 2
4:yellow: L
7:green: P
8:red/black stripe: R
9:red: N
10:black/red-stripe: D

Connect 2 and 8, you got reverse; 2 and 10, and you have "D" on the dash and your cruise control work. Connect 2, 8, 10, you have "R" and "D" light up simultaneously on your car. :D

They're numbered sorta like this when looking at the connector plug:
1 2 3 4
5 6
7 8 9 10
Note: my car is 99 4cyl with Manual ECU. His/hers is 94 ES300 with the O/D lights flashing b/c he did not address the solenoid issue just yet. I suspect that CC doesn't work on his vehicle because those error codes.
 

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Discussion Starter #66
Update!

All good things come to an end, and the end has come for my 5spd swap. I thoroughly enjoyed every mile of it and have absolutely 0 regrets, but it was time to evolve to the next project (LeMons Celica, yey!), and I have officially converted the Camry back to the automatic transaxle. Yea, on my first drive back with the slushbox, the car felt so painfully slow it almost made me cry. No joke. Gone were the spirited starts of the 3k clutch dumps... I'm getting off track here.

I'll be selling the 5spd conversion parts, but wanted to bring this thread around and add the list all of the parts. Lot's of good info here already, this will just add.



Here's the list of bits that are specific to the Gen4 Camry / Gen1 Solara platform (more on others in a bit)
1. Clutch pedal w/ Neutral Safety Switch (NSS) and Cruise Control Switch, with pigtails. (CC switch indicates when clutch is engaged and cruise can be resumed)
2. Skinny brake pedal (auto have wider pedal). Only the actual pedal arm is different, everything else is same.
3. The clutch itself.
4. Clutch hard line mounted to the firewall.
5. MT specific tranny to engine block bolts - the 4 main bolts that go through the tranny housing are different length. The other bolts are same.
6. Flywheel bolts. Longer than the auto pressure plate bolts, of course.
7. Reverse gear switch pigtail for the MT tranny. This has to be tapped into the gear selector switch harness of the auto tranny.
8. Clutch flex line with brackets and clips
9. The shifter cables themselves, including the rubber insulators for outside firewall and interior support.
10. The shifter itself. Not much rowing can be done without this guy.
11. Center console support bracket. More on this later.
12. The shift boot and knob.
13. NOT PICTURED: MT tranny mount and bracket (forgot to snap a pic, but have it).
14. NOT PICTURED: flywheel, pressure plate, TOB, and the transmission itself.
15. NOT PICTURED: M/T ECU

These are the must haves for the swap. everything else for the Gen4 Camry 2.2L can be used from the auto box (CV axle, rest of the mounts, harness, interior bits).

More info on hard line (#4) and bracket (#8). The hardline runs along other brake lines and underneath the brake booster to the clutch MC. It snaps into an existing bracket, and the other MT specific bracket is bolted to the clutch proportioning valve with existing bolts.


Note on the shifter base and center console support: here's a picture of the Auto and MT shifter base - the auto one is longer and has the 2 holes for center console support, whereas the MT one requires the separate bracket. Without it, the center console will be a bit loose.


Here's a picture of the obnoxious bolts that hold the shifter cables. This is under the heater box in the center of the dash. Proper PITA to get to, but has to for the shifter cables to come out.


Last, here's the picture from the inside of the holes that have to be drilled out for the clutch pedal and MC. 1 hole for the cylinder, 2 on either side of the cylinder, and 3rd bolt hole further down. The sound deadening is stamped out in these areas and will come out easily revealing mounting location, but some simple mockup and drilling is still required.


The transmission can be from either a 92-01 Camry (though the earlier ones may have mechanical speedo senders whereas Gen4 have electronic), 99-03 Solara, or 94-99 Celica (celica boxes have shorter gears and final drive, so keep that in mind).

If you've stumbled here looking for 5spd swap info on Gen4 4 cyl Camry, hope this helps you out. V6 would be similar but requires a bit more electrical work, and Gen3 Camry has different shifter and also some electrical nuances.
 

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Not so New TN User
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back to a slush box?

converted back to the slush box? i'm sure it drives like a pig now compared to the 5 spd. i sold off all my auto trans stuff when i did my swap. i figured if i wanted to go back to an auto- finding auto parts would be easy.

i've been enjoying my car still. it's my DD. i'm not on here much anymore though. what forums do you frequent now slavie? hope you are well.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
converted back to the slush box? i'm sure it drives like a pig now compared to the 5 spd. i sold off all my auto trans stuff when i did my swap. i figured if i wanted to go back to an auto- finding auto parts would be easy.

i've been enjoying my car still. it's my DD. i'm not on here much anymore though. what forums do you frequent now slavie? hope you are well.
That sounds great! Glad you're enjoying the swap.

Yea, it is atrocious. But, no worries, I'm putting the Kaaz LSD and Fidanza flywheel out of the Camry into my Celica racecar, so I'm half vindicated for what I've un-done here.

I still hand around here for some reason, and on 6gc.net, though that forum has got barely a dozen active folks. Though I've run out of patience for the noobs, I still try to help out folks that ask more interesting questions. Started hanging out on rennlist as well, as I've got a Cayenne GTS to take care of nowadays - it is my tow rig for the racecar.
 

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Though I've run out of patience for the noobs, I still try to help out folks that ask more interesting questions..
I know what you mean, but still check in.
I can tell by some questions that many have not had a lot of repair background. Shop classes of all types should have never been eliminated from schools, but now I think people are realizing that working with your hands is not degrading.
W95c
 
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