[chuloloco]

I have read other threads on performance chips, but I have some questions that weren't answered. I only need a few good responses though.

I have a 92 DX V6. I've read that performance chips don't work well or at all. I was looking on ebay and found a chip made by Venom, which I think is a name brand and since it is, shouldn't it work? I also found other chips for way less money that sound like they do the same exact thing. Can someone tell me exactly why these chips don't work? Has anyone even tried them to see if they do work or not? I have to admit that getting 60HP from a chip seems highly unlikely, but hey it could work I guess.

VENOM CHIP (25% HP gain): http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-93-Toyota-Camry-Venom-400-Module-Computer-Chip-NEW_W0QQitemZ300196539045QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item300196539045&_trksid=p3756.m20.l1116

TURBO-PRO CHIP (21HP gain): http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PERFORMANCE-MODULE-Toyota-Camry-Power-1992-2008-Chip_W0QQitemZ250219516187QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item250219516187#ebayphotohosting

CYCLONE ENGINEERING CHIP (60HP gain): http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PERFORMANCE-CHIP-TOYOTA-CAMRY-1990-2008-1993-1992-1991_W0QQitemZ360027651311QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item360027651311

Thanks

 

[ELL]

I don't think they work, but maybe others here may attest to it. I may just be skeptical
I believe performance chips force more powerful fuel/air ratios by tricking the ecu into thinking the air coming in is cooler then it is.

Do a search. I believe there are many questions like these around the forums

 

[eurohazard]

Please stop. If one tiny chip or "control module" can add 25% or 60 hp........the manufacturers would be doing it.

The "venom" chip sure is a good read! lol They sure make a neat case, but it's bunk. For one they say "GAIN UP TO 25% MORE HORSEPOWER AND TORQUE FROM YOUR VEHICLE THROUGHOUT THE MIDRANGE!!!" This simply makes no sense. That seller has an awesome feedback rating.......but look at what he sells! It's almost exclusively tail lights. And what does, "increasing the area under the curve on a dyno chart by up to 25%" mean anyway?
:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

In a word, lame.

 

[Venom_5]

woohoo! i have my own chip! :lol:

yeah, these things dont work ... theres no magical way to make power

 

[bigbird]

they dont work...period.

 

[geoff5093]

The Venom chip appears to possibly work, but the cheap <$20 chips DO NOT work.

 

['_']

Doubt they work, especially for $8. Unless there's some sort of placebo effect after you install it...

 

[xet]

after you...

 

[bigbird]

The Venom chip appears to possibly work, but the cheap <$20 chips DO NOT work.

they pay people to do that kinda thing.

 

[Fruitbat]

Chips do work for some engines, mostly cars exactly like the camry where the ECU is programmed to do an A/F mix that optimizes reliability and fuel economy. That Venom unit just screws with the signals that get to the ECU to make you end up running hog rich, thus wasting more gas, and generating more power.
http://www.carreview.com/cat/parts/engine-management/venom/PRD_54330_2874crx.aspx
The $8 are probably just resistors you put inline with one of the sensors to get a similar effect, but across the whole spectrum, not just between 1500 and 4000 RPM, which will waste even more gas, and probably cause you problems within a few months (running rich all the time is no fun over the long term, plus you won't pass smog).

The biggest market for these types of "chips" or piggyback ECU's that remap the Air/Fuel ratios is in big diesel trucks (F-250's, etc), where you can get a legitimate gains over 100 ft-lb of torque for minimal fuel efficiency trade off. And since most of these are business operated and leased, they don't care about any damage done, since they're done with it in 2 years. And it's a completely reverseable mod.

 

[bigbird]

the venom can work on the 1mz, but is it worth almost 400 bucks or even this case 300...no. thoes gains are not worth it at all. plus no one ive ever herd of here has ever tried it which is reason enough for me to fallow suit.

 

[kpszar]

One of my friends had a chip on his cam but wasted about 200 on it. It works but not 5 hp increase and eventually it stops working because the ecu will turn back to normal. You are just better off adjusting your throttle cable.

 

[engineer]

Most of these chips “work” by altering your stock sensor readings, thus fooling your ECM into adjusting the Air/Fuel/Spark curve for “more” performance.

Do they work? In a word, yes. But at what cost?

Get your thinking caps on, the lesson is about to begin. rder:

 

[engineer]

Link #1:

This module is connected to the vehicle’s sensors and increases engine performance by monitoring the sensors output characteristics and modifying the input to vehicle’s existing computer. The Venom 400 activates at about 25-30% throttle angle. Upon activation it modifies the input signals going into your computer, in particular the Manifold Absolute Pressure and Throttle Position Sensor Signals. When the computer sees these “modified” signals it will provide a different set of fuel and ignition maps than it would normally provide.

What does this mean? Simply, this module alters the MAP and TPS sensor’s signal to the PCM. . . . but what does that mean?

Theory of Operation:

The MAP sensor reads the pressure of the manifold and converts this into voltage, then this signal (from 0.5-4.5 volts) is sent to the PCM to determine the engine load. The MAP sensor is typically a crystal, and this crystal changes in resistance depending on the pressure being applied to it.

High vacuum (low pressure), occurs during deceleration or while at idle. This will result in a low voltage reading (<1.5 volts typically).

Low vacuum (high pressure), occurs during hard acceleration. This will result in a reading between 3-4.5 volts.

The PCM has no idea what to relate this voltage to, so it needs the TPS to understand where the throttle is (and the rate at which it's being opened) in relation to this pressure (this is also read in volts). Once the PCM knows the “load” on the engine, and the corresponding throttle position, it references a predetermined chart/table to determine the correct amount of fuel and timing for this situation. The more load and the farther the throttle is open (more air), the more fuel the PCM will allocate (again, based on an algorithm/chart/table developed by the manufacture) and the correct amount of timing will be dialed in.

Sooooo, what does this aftermarket module do to increase power? Simply, it installs between the MAP & TPS sensors and the PCM so that it can alter the voltage readings to allow for a more aggressive timing curve and the engine to run more lean. The combination of an artificially lower MAP reading (lower pressure, i.e. idle) and a lower TPS reading (less throttle input from the driver) would result in a leaner A/F mixture and more lax timing, even though the true readings (and corresponding algorithm) would demand more fuel and retard timing. As a general rule, a leaner running motor with more timing generates more power (hotter combustion), but it also has a negative effects durability (if the engine is run too lean for too long). Most manufactures error on the side of conservative and have a fatter (richer) running A/F ratio, so this module merely allows the engine to run leaner and does not allow the PCM to retard timing (as much). This is all accomplised through fooling the PCM into thinking the readings of the TPS and MAP are corret, which they are not. . . . .

 

[engineer]

Link #2

The Turbo-PRO Performance Module simply wires into the factory harness of the IAT sensor to send modified signals to the vehicle's computer. The Turbo-PRO will work with the sensor to provide a new optimized signal, which then positively adjusts air/fuel and timing advance curves to new performance settings. These new performance settings result in more horsepower and torque!

What does this mean? Simply, this module (more like a resistor pack) is connected between your vehicles IAT (inlet air temperature) sensor and your PCM, and it too alters the signal sent to your PCM. Specifically, it changes the 5V signal sent to your PCM by way of resistors, which lower the voltage output to a voltage that corresponds with a cooler air charge reading (within the PCM). Again, what does this mean?

Theory of Operation:

The density of air changes with respect to temperature (and altitude). For a fuel injected engine to determine the precise amount of air coming in, it needs two things. First, it needs the velocity (indirectly supplied by the MAP & TPS sensor), and second it needs the density (supplied by the IAT). The density of dry air (at 1atm) is .079 lb/ft^3 at 40°F, but at 120°F it’s .067 lb/ft^3. That’s a difference of 15% and the PCM needs to account for the lower volume of air and adjust the fuel supply accordingly.

IAT are made up of a thermistor, or sensitive resistors that change resistance with respect to temperature, and it is placed in the path of the incoming air. This thermistor is constantly monitoring your inlet air charge temperature, and feeds this information to the PCM. The PCM (again) references a predetermined algorithm/chart and (along with the TPS and MAP readings) determines not only the injector pulse, but also the timing. Most stock vehicles begin to retard timing in the IAT readings of 90° or so, and by the time your IAT reach >130°, your performance is greatly reduced due to the vast amount of timing being pulled. This is the main reason your vehicle feels so sluggish on hot summer days, and so sprite on cool fall days.

Soooo, what does this aftermarket module do to increase power? Simply, it alters the signal to the PCM to fool it into thinking it’s a cool/dry fall day, and not the actual hot/humid summer day. The PCM now demands less timing be pulled, even though (without this module installed) it would have pulled timing to keep the engine from knocking/pining/pre-detonating. The more retarded the timing is, the later the spark plug fires in the combustion cycle, effectively losing some of the “power” in the power stroke of the cycle, but allowing your engine to live to run another day. The more advanced the timing, the sooner the spark plug fires in the combustion cycle, effectively drawing out every last bit of power present in the air/fuel charge within the cylinder. The dangerous part is when there is too little air/fuel in the cylinder and this charge is fully consumed before the piston reaches Top Dead Center (as would be the case if you fooled your engine into thinking it had a cooler/denser charge of air, like with this module). Basically, it has the effect of hitting the top of your piston with a sledge hammer while it is in its upward stroke within the cylinder. This module told your engine it was getting more air than it was (cooler/denser), so it did not retard the timing (like it should have), and now your engine knocks because this lean air/fuel charge pre-ignited before the piston reached TDC. . . . . . Not a good thing.

 

[engineer]

Link #3

Same as link 3, but cheaper. All this is doing is altering the 5V signal sent to your PCM, which fools your PCM into thinking the IAT is lower than it actually is. Not a good thing.

 

[engineer]

Is there is an appropriate way to accomplish the exact same thing these modules? Yes. How? Through a performance tune. How is a performance tune different from these modules? Tunes alter the actual air/fuel/spark curves to program out these inherent rich tunes developed by the manufactures. They also alter the timing to a more aggressive curve, usually resulting in the necessity of 91 or 93 octane fuel. Octane is the fuels resistance to combust. Leaning out the A/F mixture would usually result in pre-detonation, but with the higher octane fuel, this allows the computer to keep the advanced timing curve due to the fuel combusting later in the combustion cycle.

Said another way, a performance tune changes the fundamental software that runs a fuel injected vehicle, reading real values for Inlet Air Temperatures, Manifold Pressure, and Throttle Position. These real values allow the new “tune” to accurately meter the air/fuel, but it is doing so with a more aggressive set of charts/tables.

These modules, on the other hand, feed the stock tune false readings, which results in a more aggressive air/fuel/spark table to be used. . . . even though the use of that table is inappropriate for the actual conditions the sensors are reading (though not supplied to the PCM because this modules are changing the real values). . . . .

Any questions?

 

[Luckynumber5]

A 3vz-fe (your v6) doesn;t have 30 horsepower magically sitting under the hood waiting for a chip to unlock it. If you want a good mod have an exhaust shop redo the y pipe.

 

[DarkMastyr]

You guys are all suckers. I put a Venom in my car and gained 150hp. I can take on Evos and Vettes all day. You're all just a bunch of pussies if you can't cut it.

 

[DAMON]

I think enough info has been presented to say that these do not work and are not a worthwhile investment. Im going to close this before the flames get higher...

but in short, ebay horsepower gimmicks are never good ways to gain power.