91' Cressida 'smokin (sometimes)

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Discussion Starter · Dec 19, 2005

My elderly yet vigorous Cressida needs some help. Mostly she needs me to
stop driving her as though she was new, but that is not going to happen.

The issue is: after recklessly bobbing and weaving down the highways in
speeds in excess of 85 mph for over an hour she'll smoke, lightly, for
about 10 minutes or so afterwards. The smokes is oily smelling and
'seems' to be coming from the area where the exhaust pipe meets the engine.

If I drive the same route at a more sedate pace the after-smoke doesn't
happen. In any event the temperature gauger stays steady at the
midpoint. No, that not quite right, it is sometimes slightly elevated.
[As I reread this, am I answering my own questions? No. 'Damn it Jim,
I'm a doctor not a veterinarian!']

Have I been "burning out the gunk" (obscure Bill Cosby stand up
reference) or is this something more serious? Note that the car has been
well cared for. Regular dino changes and some Lucas oil last year, plus
a long service record I shant bore you with. My mechanics, whom I'll be
seeing in two days, hold the old lady in high esteem.

Another minor problem. The heat, regardless of engine temp' does not
blow hot unless traveling at speed. In other words, it blows cool air
while idling. I replaced the thermostat a few years ago. As my coolant
seems to evaporate, albeit slowly, could I need a new head gasket?
[There are no stains on the driveway.]

It has been suggested that if the head gasket is rotten some coolant
could escape (and burn and smoke, perhaps answering the 1st problem -
to that point, does burning coolant have and oily smell?).

This could explain the intermittent heat by way of low coolant
circulating with air spaces (and would imply I'm not keeping as keen an
eye on the level as I'd thought).

Thanks for reading this somewhat rambling post,
Mark

http://www.caddproductivity.com/home.htm

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Discussion Starter · #2 · Dec 19, 2005

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:30:31 -0500, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>My elderly yet vigorous Cressida needs some help. Mostly she needs me to
>stop driving her as though she was new, but that is not going to happen.
>
>The issue is: after recklessly bobbing and weaving down the highways in
>speeds in excess of 85 mph for over an hour she'll smoke, lightly, for
>about 10 minutes or so afterwards. The smokes is oily smelling and
>'seems' to be coming from the area where the exhaust pipe meets the engine.
>
>If I drive the same route at a more sedate pace the after-smoke doesn't
>happen. In any event the temperature gauger stays steady at the
>midpoint. No, that not quite right, it is sometimes slightly elevated.
>[As I reread this, am I answering my own questions? No. 'Damn it Jim,
>I'm a doctor not a veterinarian!']

How old is your oil cap? Is it cracked?

Next, are the screws that hold the valve cover on loose?

>
>Another minor problem. The heat, regardless of engine temp' does not
>blow hot unless traveling at speed. In other words, it blows cool air
>while idling. I replaced the thermostat a few years ago. As my coolant
>seems to evaporate, albeit slowly, could I need a new head gasket?
>[There are no stains on the driveway.]

Yes, you could still need a new head gasket if you've never replaced
it.

BTW, you can get a used motor with an "Under 45K guarantee" for far
less than the cost of a complete rebuild.

>
>It has been suggested that if the head gasket is rotten some coolant
>could escape (and burn and smoke, perhaps answering the 1st problem -
>to that point, does burning coolant have and oily smell?).

Not really.

>
>This could explain the intermittent heat by way of low coolant
>circulating with air spaces (and would imply I'm not keeping as keen an
>eye on the level as I'd thought).

It's very difficult to get the entire cooling system full on your
Cressida. Since the heater core is higher up than most, you'll find
air gaps are difficult to overcome without a forcefeed through the
heater hose.

--
gburnore at DataBasix dot Com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 19, 2005

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> My elderly yet vigorous Cressida needs some help. Mostly she needs me to
> stop driving her as though she was new, but that is not going to happen.
>
> The issue is: after recklessly bobbing and weaving down the highways in
> speeds in excess of 85 mph for over an hour she'll smoke, lightly, for
> about 10 minutes or so afterwards. The smokes is oily smelling and 'seems'
> to be coming from the area where the exhaust pipe meets the engine.
>
> If I drive the same route at a more sedate pace the after-smoke doesn't
> happen. In any event the temperature gauger stays steady at the midpoint.
> No, that not quite right, it is sometimes slightly elevated. [As I reread
> this, am I answering my own questions? No. 'Damn it Jim, I'm a doctor not
> a veterinarian!']
>
> Have I been "burning out the gunk" (obscure Bill Cosby stand up reference)
> or is this something more serious? Note that the car has been well cared
> for. Regular dino changes and some Lucas oil last year, plus a long
> service record I shant bore you with. My mechanics, whom I'll be seeing in
> two days, hold the old lady in high esteem.
>
> Another minor problem. The heat, regardless of engine temp' does not blow
> hot unless traveling at speed. In other words, it blows cool air while
> idling. I replaced the thermostat a few years ago. As my coolant seems to
> evaporate, albeit slowly, could I need a new head gasket? [There are no
> stains on the driveway.]

You may be in need of a new water pump.

Also, I am assuming since it is a '91, it has the 7M-GE engine. From at
leats 86-89 or 90 these were notorious for blowing head gaskets, and the
symptoms you are describing are awful close to those of a head gasket in the
early stages of it's way out.

This is the same engine as used in the Supra, if it is worht your while to
tear it down, HKS makes a metal head gasket for this car. It's not cheap,
but you'll probably never have to replace it again. Depepnds, really, on how
much longer you plan on keeping the car. If it's a few more years, then I'd
spring the extra for the good HG!

>
> It has been suggested that if the head gasket is rotten some coolant could
> escape (and burn and smoke, perhaps answering the 1st problem - to that
> point, does burning coolant have and oily smell?).
>
> This could explain the intermittent heat by way of low coolant circulating
> with air spaces (and would imply I'm not keeping as keen an eye on the
> level as I'd thought).
>
>
> Thanks for reading this somewhat rambling post,
> Mark
>
>
> http://www.caddproductivity.com/home.htm

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Discussion Starter · #4 · Dec 19, 2005

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 21:11:58 GMT, "Hachiroku" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> My elderly yet vigorous Cressida needs some help. Mostly she needs me to
>> stop driving her as though she was new, but that is not going to happen.
>>
>> The issue is: after recklessly bobbing and weaving down the highways in
>> speeds in excess of 85 mph for over an hour she'll smoke, lightly, for
>> about 10 minutes or so afterwards. The smokes is oily smelling and 'seems'
>> to be coming from the area where the exhaust pipe meets the engine.
>>
>> If I drive the same route at a more sedate pace the after-smoke doesn't
>> happen. In any event the temperature gauger stays steady at the midpoint.
>> No, that not quite right, it is sometimes slightly elevated. [As I reread
>> this, am I answering my own questions? No. 'Damn it Jim, I'm a doctor not
>> a veterinarian!']
>>
>> Have I been "burning out the gunk" (obscure Bill Cosby stand up reference)
>> or is this something more serious? Note that the car has been well cared
>> for. Regular dino changes and some Lucas oil last year, plus a long
>> service record I shant bore you with. My mechanics, whom I'll be seeing in
>> two days, hold the old lady in high esteem.
>>
>> Another minor problem. The heat, regardless of engine temp' does not blow
>> hot unless traveling at speed. In other words, it blows cool air while
>> idling. I replaced the thermostat a few years ago. As my coolant seems to
>> evaporate, albeit slowly, could I need a new head gasket? [There are no
>> stains on the driveway.]
>
>You may be in need of a new water pump.
>
>Also, I am assuming since it is a '91, it has the 7M-GE engine. From at
>leats 86-89 or 90 these were notorious for blowing head gaskets, \\\

Mid 89 was when the change was made.

>and the
>symptoms you are describing are awful close to those of a head gasket in the
>early stages of it's way out.
>
>This is the same engine as used in the Supra, if it is worht your while to
>tear it down, HKS makes a metal head gasket for this car. It's not cheap,
>but you'll probably never have to replace it again. Depepnds, really, on how
>much longer you plan on keeping the car. If it's a few more years, then I'd
>spring the extra for the good HG!
>
>>
>> It has been suggested that if the head gasket is rotten some coolant could
>> escape (and burn and smoke, perhaps answering the 1st problem - to that
>> point, does burning coolant have and oily smell?).
>>
>> This could explain the intermittent heat by way of low coolant circulating
>> with air spaces (and would imply I'm not keeping as keen an eye on the
>> level as I'd thought).
>>
>>
>> Thanks for reading this somewhat rambling post,
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> http://www.caddproductivity.com/home.htm
>
--
gburnore at DataBasix dot Com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Burnore | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³ÝÛºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³ÝÛºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
Official .sig, Accept no substitutes. | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³ÝÛºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ 0 1 7 2 3 / Ý³Þ 3 7 4 9 3 0 Û³
Black Helicopter Repair Services, Ltd.| Official Proof of Purchase
===========================================================================

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Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 19, 2005

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> My elderly yet vigorous Cressida needs some help. Mostly she needs me to
> stop driving her as though she was new, but that is not going to happen.
>
> The issue is: after recklessly bobbing and weaving down the highways in
> speeds in excess of 85 mph for over an hour she'll smoke, lightly, for
> about 10 minutes or so afterwards. The smokes is oily smelling and 'seems'
> to be coming from the area where the exhaust pipe meets the engine.
>
> If I drive the same route at a more sedate pace the after-smoke doesn't
> happen. In any event the temperature gauger stays steady at the midpoint.
> No, that not quite right, it is sometimes slightly elevated. [As I reread
> this, am I answering my own questions? No. 'Damn it Jim, I'm a doctor not
> a veterinarian!']
>
> Have I been "burning out the gunk" (obscure Bill Cosby stand up reference)
> or is this something more serious? Note that the car has been well cared
> for. Regular dino changes and some Lucas oil last year, plus a long
> service record I shant bore you with. My mechanics, whom I'll be seeing in
> two days, hold the old lady in high esteem.

If this is the engine I remember, each cam has a separate tower, or
rectangular box, that extends above the hear and under the valve covers, and
there is a valley between the 2 towers, much like a V-8 or V-6 engine. The
cam tower gaskets sometimes leak and oil pools in the valley. Sprited
driving can make the oil drip on the exhaust, causing smsoke and burning oil
smell. If this is the case, the condition is more of a nuisance than a real
problem, although you have to keep an eye on the oil level.

>
> Another minor problem. The heat, regardless of engine temp' does not blow
> hot unless traveling at speed. In other words, it blows cool air while
> idling. I replaced the thermostat a few years ago. As my coolant seems to
> evaporate, albeit slowly, could I need a new head gasket? [There are no
> stains on the driveway.]
>
> It has been suggested that if the head gasket is rotten some coolant could
> escape (and burn and smoke, perhaps answering the 1st problem - to that
> point, does burning coolant have and oily smell?).
>
> This could explain the intermittent heat by way of low coolant circulating
> with air spaces (and would imply I'm not keeping as keen an eye on the
> level as I'd thought).
>
>
> Thanks for reading this somewhat rambling post,
> Mark
>
>
> http://www.caddproductivity.com/home.htm

Leaking head gaskets were not that uncommon on this engine. Check the
engine oil for a milkshake appearance and the coolant for signs of oil mixed
in.

Did the problem with the heat start when you replaced the thermostat? If
so, make sure it was installed correctly, with the spring facing down. When
you refill the coolant, make sure that the temp on the heater is set to full
hot so that the heater valve opens up and coolant circulates through the
heater core.

--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply
Burning coolant has more of a sickly sweet smell than a burning oil smell.

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Discussion Starter · #6 · Dec 19, 2005

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:17:34 -0600, "Ray O"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> My elderly yet vigorous Cressida needs some help. Mostly she needs me to
>> stop driving her as though she was new, but that is not going to happen.
>>
>> The issue is: after recklessly bobbing and weaving down the highways in
>> speeds in excess of 85 mph for over an hour she'll smoke, lightly, for
>> about 10 minutes or so afterwards. The smokes is oily smelling and 'seems'
>> to be coming from the area where the exhaust pipe meets the engine.
>>
>> If I drive the same route at a more sedate pace the after-smoke doesn't
>> happen. In any event the temperature gauger stays steady at the midpoint.
>> No, that not quite right, it is sometimes slightly elevated. [As I reread
>> this, am I answering my own questions? No. 'Damn it Jim, I'm a doctor not
>> a veterinarian!']
>>
>> Have I been "burning out the gunk" (obscure Bill Cosby stand up reference)
>> or is this something more serious? Note that the car has been well cared
>> for. Regular dino changes and some Lucas oil last year, plus a long
>> service record I shant bore you with. My mechanics, whom I'll be seeing in
>> two days, hold the old lady in high esteem.
>
>If this is the engine I remember, each cam has a separate tower, or
>rectangular box, that extends above the hear and under the valve covers, and
>there is a valley between the 2 towers, much like a V-8 or V-6 engine.

Correct.

>The
>cam tower gaskets sometimes leak and oil pools in the valley.

Which just sits there.

> Sprited driving can make the oil drip on the exhaust,

Not _THAT_ oil. Unless spirited means turning the car upside down
after removing the spark plugs, that extra oil just sits in it's own
little pool.

>causing smsoke and burning oil smell. If this is the case, the condition is more of a
>nuisance than a real problem, although you have to keep an eye on the oil level.

Smelling burning oil should _ALWAYS_ be considered a real problem but
yes, keeping an eye on the oil level may be all that's required.

>>
>> Another minor problem. The heat, regardless of engine temp' does not blow
>> hot unless traveling at speed. In other words, it blows cool air while
>> idling. I replaced the thermostat a few years ago. As my coolant seems to
>> evaporate, albeit slowly, could I need a new head gasket? [There are no
>> stains on the driveway.]
>>
>> It has been suggested that if the head gasket is rotten some coolant could
>> escape (and burn and smoke, perhaps answering the 1st problem - to that
>> point, does burning coolant have and oily smell?).
>>
>> This could explain the intermittent heat by way of low coolant circulating
>> with air spaces (and would imply I'm not keeping as keen an eye on the
>> level as I'd thought).
>>
>>
>> Thanks for reading this somewhat rambling post,
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> http://www.caddproductivity.com/home.htm
>
>Leaking head gaskets were not that uncommon on this engine.

Again, up to mid 1989. Those created on or after the midyear of 89
weren't as succeptible.

>Check the engine oil for a milkshake appearance and the coolant for signs of oil mixed
>in.
>
>Did the problem with the heat start when you replaced the thermostat? If
>so, make sure it was installed correctly, with the spring facing down. When
>you refill the coolant, make sure that the temp on the heater is set to full
>hot so that the heater valve opens up and coolant circulates through the
>heater core.

And again, even then, it'll still be quite difficult to get it full.
The top of the heater core is higher than the top of the radiator. By
at least two inches. That's a lot of air.

--
gburnore at DataBasix dot Com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Burnore | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³ÝÛºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
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Discussion Starter · #7 · Dec 19, 2005

Gary L. Burnore wrote:
>
> How old is your oil cap? Is it cracked?

About 7 years I think, although it looks new inside and out.

> Next, are the screws that hold the valve cover on loose?

Yup, all 'em were very loose. I managed to tighten all but the one under
the assembly between the air filter and engine (which would have require
a bit of disassembly in arctic temp's). Thanks, having screws loose
explains a lot. I assume this is where I could lose oil, esp. under hard
driving.

> It's very difficult to get the entire cooling system full on your
> Cressida. Since the heater core is higher up than most, you'll find
> air gaps are difficult to overcome without a forcefeed through the
> heater hose.
>

The coolant was low again. Topped it up, which should bring the heater
in line. Why and where I'm losing coolant though I'm still not sure.

>BTW, you can get a used motor with an "Under 45K guarantee" for far
>less than the cost of a complete rebuild.

Where? Can you send me one UPS? Just kidding. The joy of owning this
Cressida is in part the much ballyhooed longevity of the 7MGE inline 6,
which if at all cared for, should go to the moon and back (about 750,000
km). I'm at 256,000 km now so I've got some driving to do yet.

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Discussion Starter · #8 · Dec 19, 2005

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:29:20 -0500, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>Gary L. Burnore wrote:
> >
>> How old is your oil cap? Is it cracked?
>
>About 7 years I think, although it looks new inside and out.
>
>> Next, are the screws that hold the valve cover on loose?
>
>Yup, all 'em were very loose.

Then that's most likely your problem. Chance are very good that the
rubbers under the screws are hardened now too. You can get them via
speical order from Toyota or via ToyotaParts.com

> I managed to tighten all but the one under
>the assembly between the air filter and engine (which would have require
>a bit of disassembly in arctic temp's).

Having one loose isn't really a good thing. You don't have to take the
whole thing off, just remove the two nuts on the exhaust side and the
one bolt under the throttle rod and you can lift it enough to get a
stubby in.

> Thanks, having screws loose
>explains a lot. I assume this is where I could lose oil, esp. under hard
>driving.

A *** LOT *** of oil.

>> It's very difficult to get the entire cooling system full on your
>> Cressida. Since the heater core is higher up than most, you'll find
>> air gaps are difficult to overcome without a forcefeed through the
>> heater hose.
>>
>
>The coolant was low again. Topped it up, which should bring the heater
>in line. Why and where I'm losing coolant though I'm still not sure.
>
>
> >BTW, you can get a used motor with an "Under 45K guarantee" for far
> >less than the cost of a complete rebuild.
>
>Where? Can you send me one UPS? Just kidding.

I can't. But they can. They drop shipped mine to my house for less
than I could buy one at a local junk yard. It came complete with an
alternator, power steering pump, ECU wiring and air conditioning
compressor. I'll find the URL if you're still wanting one.

>The joy of owning this
>Cressida is in part the much ballyhooed longevity of the 7MGE inline 6,
>which if at all cared for, should go to the moon and back (about 750,000
>km). I'm at 256,000 km now so I've got some driving to do yet.

I've got over 360K on the body, estimating 50K on the engine now that
it's been replaced. BTW, if you DO decide to buy an engine, rememeber
to replace the timing belt before you drop it in.

--
gburnore at DataBasix dot Com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Burnore | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³ÝÛºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³ÝÛºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
Official .sig, Accept no substitutes. | ÝÛ³ºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³³ÝÛºÝ³Þ³ºÝ³Ý³Þ³ºÝ³ÝÝÛ³
| ÝÛ 0 1 7 2 3 / Ý³Þ 3 7 4 9 3 0 Û³
Black Helicopter Repair Services, Ltd.| Official Proof of Purchase
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Discussion Starter · #9 · Dec 20, 2005

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:30:31 -0500, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>My elderly yet vigorous Cressida needs some help. Mostly she needs me to
>stop driving her as though she was new, but that is not going to happen.
>
>The issue is: after recklessly bobbing and weaving down the highways in
>speeds in excess of 85 mph for over an hour she'll smoke, lightly, for
>about 10 minutes or so afterwards. The smokes is oily smelling and
>'seems' to be coming from the area where the exhaust pipe meets the engine.
>
>If I drive the same route at a more sedate pace the after-smoke doesn't
>happen. In any event the temperature gauger stays steady at the
>midpoint. No, that not quite right, it is sometimes slightly elevated.
>[As I reread this, am I answering my own questions? No. 'Damn it Jim,
>I'm a doctor not a veterinarian!']
>
>Have I been "burning out the gunk" (obscure Bill Cosby stand up
>reference) or is this something more serious? Note that the car has been
>well cared for. Regular dino changes and some Lucas oil last year, plus
>a long service record I shant bore you with. My mechanics, whom I'll be
>seeing in two days, hold the old lady in high esteem.
>
>Another minor problem. The heat, regardless of engine temp' does not
>blow hot unless traveling at speed. In other words, it blows cool air
>while idling. I replaced the thermostat a few years ago. As my coolant
>seems to evaporate, albeit slowly, could I need a new head gasket?
>[There are no stains on the driveway.]
>
When was the radiator cap last replaced? That is the weakest point in
the system and should be replaced every few years.
>It has been suggested that if the head gasket is rotten some coolant
>could escape (and burn and smoke, perhaps answering the 1st problem -
>to that point, does burning coolant have and oily smell?).
>
The smell and smoke indicate some oil leaking onto the headpipe, Not
being familiar with the engine there is not much I can say.

regards
A.G.
>This could explain the intermittent heat by way of low coolant
>circulating with air spaces (and would imply I'm not keeping as keen an
>eye on the level as I'd thought).
>
>
>Thanks for reading this somewhat rambling post,
>Mark
>
>
>http://www.caddproductivity.com/home.htm

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